Do Prongs Need to Be Completely Touching The Stone?

[goldstein]

I have a sapphire pendant.

The pendant has been inspected by 2 bench jewelers who have said it is not necessary to tighten the prongs any further and one of the jewelers said after tightening one prong; said it's best not to touch another prong which has a very small minute gap.

He said it's an unwise risk of cracking the stone whenever you are doing prong work and it's best to just leave it as it is.

He said it doesn't snag on clothing. The stone isn't loose nor moving. It is stable and he said it is a pendant and not a ring - so a very small minute gap at the end of the prong will not pose a problem.

He fixed one of the prongs and than I noticed another one which had a very small minute gap. So I went back and that's what he told me.

You could barely see it with the naked eye and had to be looking very closely. On a loupe, you could see it slightly at end of the prong having a small gap.

The prong is otherwise touching the girdle of the stone and only at the tip of the prong can you see it.

It is a four prong setting. Antique cushion shape.

What do you think? Should I go to another bench jeweler to push in the gap?

 

[minousbijoux]

Why do you continue to go to this jeweler if you are questioning everything he/she does? You have started many threads on subjects related to setting stones. I would suggest you find a jeweler you trust enough not to second guess.

 

[goldstein]

Why do you continue to go to this jeweler if you are questioning everything he/she does? You have started many threads on subjects related to setting stones. I would suggest you find a jeweler you trust enough not to second guess.

I would like to confirm with others here on their input. That's all.

Those that ask the least questions; pay for their ignorance.

I like to trust but verify. Doesn't matter if it's a mechanic, jeweler, attorney, doctor, electrician, plumber or realtor.

Finding a Jeweler to firmly trust takes trial and error. Many Jewelers claim to be trustworthy, competent and/or experts. Doesn't mean that they are.

PS: I don't plan on doing any work on the pendant anymore. Just asking for others input.

 

[T L]

I have a sapphire pendant.

The pendant has been inspected by 2 bench jewelers who have said it is not necessary to tighten the prongs any further and one of the jewelers said after tightening one prong; said it's best not to touch another prong which has a very small minute gap.

He said it's an unwise risk of cracking the stone whenever you are doing prong work and it's best to just leave it as it is.

He said it doesn't snag on clothing. The stone isn't loose nor moving. It is stable and he said it is a pendant and not a ring - so a very small minute gap at the end of the prong will not pose a problem.

He fixed one of the prongs and than I noticed another one which had a very small minute gap. So I went back and that's what he told me.

You could barely see it with the naked eye and had to be looking very closely. On a loupe, you could see it slightly at end of the prong having a small gap.

The prong is otherwise touching the girdle of the stone and only at the tip of the prong can you see it.

It is a four prong setting. Antique cushion shape.

What do you think? Should I go to another bench jeweler to push in the gap?

Really odd commentary from a jeweler, and sapphire isn't even a soft stone which an experienced jeweler should worry about. Does the stone make a rattle noise in the setting if you shake it in your hand? If it does, then I wouldn't wear it until you get a second opinion. Hopefully a bench person can chime in. You may want to post this in RockyTalky because more jewelers seem to post there as well.

I'm not a bench person, but I can say that my jeweler sets my stones such that the prongs are touching the entire stone. I would not want to compromise the safety of my gems. I've even had double prongs added to ensure safety on some of my rings.

 

[goldstein]

Really odd commentary from a jeweler, and sapphire isn't even a soft stone which an experienced jeweler should worry about. Does the stone make a rattle noise in the setting if you shake it in your hand? If it does, then I wouldn't wear it until you get a second opinion. Hopefully a bench person can chime in. You may want to post this in RockyTalky because more jewelers seem to post there as well.

I'm not a bench person, but I can say that my jeweler sets my stones such that the prongs are touching the entire stone. I would not want to compromise the safety of my gems. I've even had double prongs added to ensure safety on some of my rings.

It's a local family jeweler in business for close to 80 years now. Under the same ownership and family. No negative feedback or complaints on BBB.

That's why I went there. Plus they allow you watch while they do the repair and they do it on the spot in most cases for most repairs.

Not it does not rattle, if I shake it in my hand. Just checked.

It was also checked by two different local jewelers. The first one said; it's unnecessary and said it's not loose. The second one fixed one prong and than said it's best not to play with it after I went back as it may crack if you work on the prong. He said it's not loose and isn't catching on to his sweater either. They also checked it with tweezers and said it isn't loose.

He said not to worry. The stone will not fall off.

Get a third opinion maybe?

Perhaps they don't feel it's worthy of the risk to themselves to tighten the prongs if something in the small risk; goes bad? That's maybe why they refused?

 

[chrono]

Since I have not seen any pictures of the setting is question, it is difficult to answer your question accurately. I don't think anyone can answer your question either unless they can see it as well. The most basic answer is how well the seat is cut and how well the stone is sitting in that seat. Just because someone has been in business for umpteen years does not mean they are experienced in working with coloured stones. Most jewellers are experienced in diamond setting but not CS setting.

 

[T L]

Since I have not seen any pictures of the setting is question, it is difficult to answer your question accurately. I don't think anyone can answer your question either unless they can see it as well. The most basic answer is how well the seat is cut and how well the stone is sitting in that seat. Just because someone has been in business for umpteen years does not mean they are experienced in working with coloured stones. Most jewellers are experienced in diamond setting but not CS setting.

Chrono took the words out of my mouth. If you have a camera with macro mode, maybe you want to post it here or in RockyTalky (or does someone recommend another subforum here, as I'm in CS 99% of the time), to see what you're talking about.

Also, what metal is it (sorry if you mentioned that above, but I didn't see it). Is it 14K, 18K, platinum, rose, white, yellow? Some metals/alloys are more brittle and not as safe as others, so that's also good to know.

 

[nojs]

In general, there should not be gaps between the stone and prong. Maybe they don't believe they can fix it without replacing the prong? It the stone is expensive, I would have the prong redone, if necessary. With only 4 prongs, I would not risk it even if it is a pendant.

 

[chrono]

http://www.mjsa.org/publications_and_media/tech_sheets/evaluating_settings
http://www.professionaljeweler.com/archives/articles/1999/dec99/1299fys1.html

 

[pregcurious]

Great articles, Chrono.

 

[goldstein]

Thanks for all the help Chrono, TL and njos.

I did as you guys said and got a 3rd opinion from another Jeweler in Manhattan rather than they other 2 in Brooklyn.

This small jeweler who was only in business for 8 years but was very attentive than all they others and showed interest in what I had to say rather than expecting me to think he is the expert who knows everything.

He took a look under his loupe at the prongs, the setting and how well the stone is set.

He commented that the sapphire is very beautiful and the setting design is also pretty but the craftsmanship of the setting is very poor.

He said your prongs are uneven in length, seated asymmetrically from the setting and the dents on the prongs from setting the stone he said clearly showed the poor workmanship of the jeweler who did this job.

Commented about one prong having a gap

He than said there was an uneven gap between the girdle of the stone and the setting on one side than they other side. He said he looked carefully to see whether the stone was crookedly set or whether the setting is crooked;

He said the setting is unevenly cast, not as bad as having the stone set uneven but he said still very unacceptable and clearly evident of incompetence, poor craftsmanship and carelessness.

Said I was at least very lucky the setter didn't damage the stone in anyway from what he saw but could only say for sure if he could take it out of the setting and examine it loose.

He immediately afterwards said that your sapphire is very pretty and it's no justice to have such a nice stone set into such a poorly crafted setting.

He said he hated seeing my nice sapphire in such a terribly crafted setting and offered to remove it from the setting on the spot in front of me free of charge.

He than said it is also necessary to remove it from the setting because the way it is set, poses a risk to the integrity and safety of the stone from all the uneven pressure from such a incompetently crafted setting.

He said since it is a prong setting; it will be very easy and very low risk of any damage to the stone during removal but said keeping the stone inside not only a horrendously crafted but also very dangerous setting is highly risky and unwise.

So removal he said is necessary and a wise thing to do in his professional opinion.

So I let him.

He removed it in less than a few seconds with a prong lifter free of charge.

He examined the stone for a few minutes under a high-powered loupe for any damage and said with my luck, I should be playing the lotto because there is no damage to the stone despite how terribly unskilled and embarrassingly incompetent hands had set the stone.

He said he was worried after removing the stone from it's setting that he'd find at least some damage somewhere on the stone but said he was stunned that it was completely clear of any damage.

Than he said that sapphires are very tough material but whenever he is working on a sapphire or ruby; he never takes the durability of corundum for granted and he always likes to underestimate the durability to be on the safe side rather do some damage and be sorry for it.

He than asked if I'd like for him to set the stone perfectly and correctly with professional craftsmanship this time. He asked if I'd like to see examples of his work.

I said sure.

He showed my rings, earrings, pendants and bracelets.

On all the pieces he commented why it is professionally crafted and set by pointing out even pressure from all the prongs with no gaps seen under a loupe, even length of all the prongs and symmetry face up and symmetrically seated prongs between each other.

He pointed out the lack of any dents on the prongs or the setting along with no uneven casting of the metal anywhere unlike my setting which had uneven casting of the design in several places.

Said all the stones were set evenly in the setting with the setting also symmetrical.

He asked how much the previous jeweler who performed such shoddy work charged. Once I told him, he said that I should demand a refund. Handed me the pendant in a small zip lock bag and told me to please take it back to this jeweler; as I shouldn't have to pay a penny for such "horrendously incompetent work". (His words.)

He said he would have done the same work for half and done it properly.

He asked me if I had bought the sapphire from the Jeweler who performed the setting.

I said no and he said that he knew such a nice sapphire couldn't have come from the same place as the "horrendous setting".

Asked me how much I paid and from where, told him and said I got a very fair deal for a very nice stone but the setting was a complete rip off and he said that he recommends trying to get my hard earned money back for such "laughably incompetent craftsmanship".

I told him I'd find out some more prices and do some more research on other competent jewelers to do the setting.

He said no problem and to take my time and handed me his business card along with a booklet explaining the setting process and everything about it with different types of settings along with information on correct setting and incorrect setting.

This jeweler was very nice, polite, courteous and seemed like an honest young man no older than 35 and only in business for 8 years with a bit of a small worn down shop in Manhattan.

They other jewelers I went too were in business for many decades, had large shops and new fixtures including the jeweler whom I had the setting done from.

I learned from my encounter from this jeweler that experience/age does not always equal competency and does not mean they cannot be incompetent because they can and have.

 

[LoversKites]

Thanka for the update Goldstein.

 

[chrono]

I am glad you listened to the advice to get another opinion. Often times, I find the larger chain store types to not have highly skilled benches.