Difficulty Balancing Trade-offs

[bshaffer12]

[/quote]I understand what you mean about the smirk... I was the same way when my husband was talking about diamonds before we got engaged.

I think this is exactly what Niel was saying... most who have "G" stones really have a diamond that would grade several colors lower by GIA/AGS.

OP, I think you're so sweet for trying to balance out what's important to your FF, all while keeping her ultimate happiness in mind. Kudos to you! Best of luck in your search! I'm excited to see what you choose! [/quote]

Haha, yes, glad you understood the "smirk"

I see what Neil is saying now. Makes sense. Thank you both for clarifying.

msop4 - Thank you for the kind words and the support, it's appreciated! I'm getting excited too and I think I'm getting closer...

 

[bshaffer12]

Yes msop is right as to what I meant.

What I was getting at is, in the us the average grade of a atone is a gia j (again this is the last set of info I saw). But, many aren't graded by gia. Stones graded by softer grading labs (or no lab at all) can TELL you it's any color. So someone may have a lab report that says its an h, but if the same stone were graded by a stricter lab, it very well may come in lower in color by their standards. That's what I mean.

And I totally get wanting to blow her away. Its a meaningful purchase for you too. When she shows it off its in some ways as much a reflection on you as her.

thanks for understanding that point. I explained it to my buddy last night by saying that I don't feel like I'm only buying an engagement ring, I also think of it as buying a family heirloom, something she'll have forever. Which is why everyone's input on this forum is so appreciated and valuable.

 

[Rockdiamond]

The extra money is worth it to someone who values more rare if it is just looks you value go with the lower price. I like colourless and always think if I didn't value rarity I would not get a diamond but a beautiful sparkly stone for less, blue topaz has a high reflective index.

I hear what you are saying and I would certainly value the rarity and craftsmanship of a high color ideal cut diamond. However, in this circumstance, only a professional or the rare 1% of people who can easily discern a J from even an H or know what H&A means can really see the difference upon examination. I think there is a middle ground between colourless diamonds and blue topaz. Hence, my original posting title.

Hi bshaffer: my take as someone who buys a lot of diamonds- you need to balance the 4c's.
I adore great cut- but a single minded "Cut is king" attitude overlooks many factors.
Size is a HUGE factor- difference n size is far more visible than small differences in quality of cut.
Say you were comparing a well cut VG to a triple EX.
If the VG cut grade stone is 20% less, that money can go into buying you a larger diamond.
The size may be far more important to your intended.
There's really no difference in the quality of "investment value" between a premium priced triple EX or branded stone, and a well priced VG cut grade stone if it's a consumer trying to cash out.

 

[nojs]

The more I think about this, the more difficult it seems If I were looking for another e-ring diamond for myself, I'm not sure which way would I go. And this is not me, and not even you, it's your FF.

I guess each "C" is something you can appreciate, it is just a matter of which you appreciate the most. Some say there is no reason to pay for anything other that "eye clean", but if you don't have too pay much for it, it sure is nice to have (if you are like me and check your stone with a 10x loupe that is).

A friend of mine just got a (GIA) D IF Flanders cut (I think the stone is only like 0.4 ct, she never answered my question about size , it is not big). Most people probably feel that just nuts for everyday wear, but she wanted something perfect I wanted something perfect as well. I wanted the perfect cut So, I fixed the price and the cut, then had a look what was available. The biggest at that time was a J VVS2 (a sort of a mismatch, I know), so I went with that. Would I have gone with VG cut for extra size? No. I guess for me, the cut was the science part, color was not

In the end finding a diamond can be a bit like finding a spouse. Few of us are perfect, it is just a matter which one is perfect for you Good luck!

 

[Niel]

I suggested this to someone else recently but I think he may go another direction.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R210-3ZBQ4T

 

[Rockdiamond]

The more I think about this, the more difficult it seems If I were looking for another e-ring diamond for myself, I'm not sure which way would I go. And this is not me, and not even you, it's your FF.

I guess each "C" is something you can appreciate, it is just a matter of which you appreciate the most. Some say there is no reason to pay for anything other that "eye clean", but if you don't have too pay much for it, it sure is nice to have (if you are like me and check your stone with a 10x loupe that is).

A friend of mine just got a (GIA) D IF Flanders cut (I think the stone is only like 0.4 ct, she never answered my question about size , it is not big). Most people probably feel that just nuts for everyday wear, but she wanted something perfect I wanted something perfect as well. I wanted the perfect cut So, I fixed the price and the cut, then had a look what was available. The biggest at that time was a J VVS2 (a sort of a mismatch, I know), so I went with that. Would I have gone with VG cut for extra size? No. I guess for me, the cut was the science part, color was not

In the end finding a diamond can be a bit like finding a spouse. Few of us are perfect, it is just a matter which one is perfect for you Good luck!

Just curious nojs- have you seen GIA VG cut graded diamonds?

 

[nojs]

/---/
Just curious nojs- have you seen GIA VG cut graded diamonds?

I have

 

[pfunk]

I suggested this to someone else recently but I think he may go another direction.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R210-3ZBQ4T

I have seen this stone recommended several times and I looked at it myself with wide eyes during my search. Seemed perfect, but if I remember correctly it has a tint that the vendor mentioned to me. The OP should check to make sure, but I do believe that is the reason for what seems to be a very good price.

 

[nojs]

/---/
Just curious nojs- have you seen GIA VG cut graded diamonds?

I have

I mean I have seen them in person and the ones I saw did not impress me pattern-wise (stores around here do not have a great selection). But your comment made me have a look at James Allen online, and I can see that there are "VG" and then there are "VG" cuts - some are a lot nicer that others.

 

[Niel]

I suggested this to someone else recently but I think he may go another direction.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R210-3ZBQ4T

I have seen this stone recommended several times and I looked at it myself with wide eyes during my search. Seemed perfect, but if I remember correctly it has a tint that the vendor mentioned to me. The OP should check to make sure, but I do believe that is the reason for what seems to be a very good price.

Do elaborate on what you mean by tint. Its a j. It'll be tinted. Do you mean it has a different undertone rather than yellow?

 

[Rockdiamond]

/---/
Just curious nojs- have you seen GIA VG cut graded diamonds?

I have

I mean I have seen them in person and the ones I saw did not impress me pattern-wise (stores around here do not have a great selection). But your comment made me have a look at James Allen online, and I can see that there are "VG" and then there are "VG" cuts - some are a lot nicer that others.

True that!!

I have found that the top of the line VG cut grade stones are impossible to distinguish from many triple EX cut graded stones to the naked eye.
Not everyone is looking for a patterned stone- but there's both patterned and non patterned n both VG and EX

 

[bshaffer12]

The extra money is worth it to someone who values more rare if it is just looks you value go with the lower price. I like colourless and always think if I didn't value rarity I would not get a diamond but a beautiful sparkly stone for less, blue topaz has a high reflective index.

I hear what you are saying and I would certainly value the rarity and craftsmanship of a high color ideal cut diamond. However, in this circumstance, only a professional or the rare 1% of people who can easily discern a J from even an H or know what H&A means can really see the difference upon examination. I think there is a middle ground between colourless diamonds and blue topaz. Hence, my original posting title.

Hi bshaffer: my take as someone who buys a lot of diamonds- you need to balance the 4c's.
I adore great cut- but a single minded "Cut is king" attitude overlooks many factors.
Size is a HUGE factor- difference n size is far more visible than small differences in quality of cut.
Say you were comparing a well cut VG to a triple EX.
If the VG cut grade stone is 20% less, that money can go into buying you a larger diamond.
The size may be far more important to your intended.
There's really no difference in the quality of "investment value" between a premium priced triple EX or branded stone, and a well priced VG cut grade stone if it's a consumer trying to cash out.

Thanks for the insight! Yes, trying my very best to balance the 4C's. It's challenging...

I'm looking for value, but certainly not "investment value".

I don't think I'm personally comfortable getting anything less than triple EX.

 

[bshaffer12]

I suggested this to someone else recently but I think he may go another direction.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R210-3ZBQ4T

That's definitely interesting. Can anyone elaborate on the color appearance of this particular stone? Sounds like someone has seen it?

 

[pfunk]

I suggested this to someone else recently but I think he may go another direction.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R210-3ZBQ4T

I have seen this stone recommended several times and I looked at it myself with wide eyes during my search. Seemed perfect, but if I remember correctly it has a tint that the vendor mentioned to me. The OP should check to make sure, but I do believe that is the reason for what seems to be a very good price.

Do elaborate on what you mean by tint. Its a j. It'll be tinted. Do you mean it has a different undertone rather than yellow?

Sorry for not being more clear. Yes, i do believe it was a brown tinted diamond that they had steered me away from.

 

[Niel]

I suggested this to someone else recently but I think he may go another direction.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R210-3ZBQ4T

I have seen this stone recommended several times and I looked at it myself with wide eyes during my search. Seemed perfect, but if I remember correctly it has a tint that the vendor mentioned to me. The OP should check to make sure, but I do believe that is the reason for what seems to be a very good price.

Do elaborate on what you mean by tint. Its a j. It'll be tinted. Do you mean it has a different undertone rather than yellow?

Sorry for not being more clear. Yes, i do believe it was a brown tinted diamond that they had steered me away from.

Odd. I wonder why they steer people from brown undertones. I think they look whiter than yellow undertone. Plus,its not even something listed on a gia cert until it gets k and under.

 

[pfunk]

I suggested this to someone else recently but I think he may go another direction.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R210-3ZBQ4T

I have seen this stone recommended several times and I looked at it myself with wide eyes during my search. Seemed perfect, but if I remember correctly it has a tint that the vendor mentioned to me. The OP should check to make sure, but I do believe that is the reason for what seems to be a very good price.

Do elaborate on what you mean by tint. Its a j. It'll be tinted. Do you mean it has a different undertone rather than yellow?

Sorry for not being more clear. Yes, i do believe it was a brown tinted diamond that they had steered me away from.

Odd. I wonder why they steer people from brown undertones. I think they look whiter than yellow undertone. Plus,its not even something listed on a gia cert until it gets k and under.

I am guessing it was pretty pronounced. Or maybe there was more going on than just the brown tint. I just remember them saying they thought I'd be happier with another one I had picked out. The price does seem to reflect something is "off". But by all means, the OP should ask them about it and they may have better details. My memory of exactly what they said is a little fuzzy.

 

[bshaffer12]

This seems to be the best balance I can find:

2.01ct
Color: I
Clarity: VS2
Triple EX
HCA: 0.8
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R200-8WMFBH?cid=pricescope
Price seems to be lower than what I've seen with those specs. I'm guessing its due to the crystal on the table, so I've asked to have it inspected to ensure eye clean and if they can provide ideal scope images. Any thoughts on this stone? Seems like this is really what I've been looking for. Has anyone done business with them recently?

Here are some other alternates I've been looking at.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3189868.htm

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-j-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-398092

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-j-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-397848

 

[jonsey]

I would not be scared off from a J color diamond if you have not seen them for YOURSELF! I was just in nearly the same situation as you. Originally my girlfriend said she didnt want to go below an I color, but after looking at H, I, and J side by side in a jewelry store she decided she couldnt tell a difference between them. I could pick the H out face down, but face up I could not tell the H from the I or J. She couldnt see a difference in any of them. Point being, she much prefers size over color as it is EASY to see in any light no matter what.

I originally bought a 1.79 ideal cut AGS 000 I color stone. It was beautiful, but when I found out she was actually ok with J, I searched for and found an ideal cut (non branded) GIA J color that was just over 2 carats. I compared them both in as many lighting environments as possible and the differences were so subtle. I actually thought the GIA graded J had equal or even slighlty less tint than the AGS I. And I had it appraised today by a pricescope listed independent appraiser who has been in the business for 35 years and he said he was torn between calling it an H and an I, and was surprised when I told him it was a J. Point being, I think there are some J's that could go as I's and to write off all J's would be silly. If you see one in person and don't like it, you better look at I's too because they will probly show some tint to you as well that could be bothersome.

And the diamond I bought did not have an idealscope and it is gorgeous. I would not rule out any stone that has ideal numbers just because it doesnt have an idealscope image. They are absolutely nice to have, but if the numbers and the price are right they are not a necessity. Let your eyes dictate what is beautiful.

I posted this in my thread, but when I looked at AGS Ideal diamonds, I couldn't tell basically any difference between K and H, even side by side, outside in natural light. Both faced up white. Looking at them through the side, sure, I could tell. But if a friend or stranger was looking at the stone, no way they would notice if they were a layperson. Too many variables in light. But the size difference for the same money, that was very noticeable. We are talking 50 points or so. Given the choice, between a slightly whiter stone, or 50 points weight, there isn't much of a choice for me personally. See them in person if you can.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Not every I color will have the same tint. My I colored stone look less tinted than my wife's I color from the side, b/c I think her I stone is closer to a J color.