Diff in price of gems??

[mjd]

Hi guys,
JAs a new gem lover/luster I am just wondering if anybody can help me out - prob a stupid question but here it goes ...

I am just wondering why there is such a variation in the coost of gems? For example the one on the link below looks gorgeous and this supplier has many other stones that are very reasonable in price...

http://www.customgemstones.com/NewStone.html


Then other sites charge 1000s for their gems - how do you know what you are buying and why the diff in prices??

Thanks,
Star

 

[Liane]

Subtle nuances in color can mean huge changes in price when you're talking about colored gemstones.

The spinel that you posted (.69 carat square brilliant blue-purple color shifter) looks like it'll be quite dark in person. To my eye it has just a tiny bit of gray. It is not perfectly eye-clean. Also, it's fairly small. All these things push the price down to a more affordable level. I expect it's still a beautiful stone, and Dan Stair is a wonderful cutter from whom I've bought many gems, but that's why it's priced how it's priced.

"How you know what you are buying" is a question with a long answer and a short one. The short one is "you're buying from a trusted cutter or vendor, the stone (if pricey) has a cert, and/or you've had it examined by an independent appraiser who knows colored stones and not just diamonds." The long one is... like that, but with more hemming and hawing, and maybe a couple of courses in gemology (oh, to have the time to do that myself!).

 

[ma re]

THIS article might hold answers to many of your questions.

Basically, it''s all down to three factors; beauty, durability and rarity. Those gems that combine a great beauty and equally high public desirability with good enough durability for many jewellery uses (i.e. that are not restricting when it comes to use in jewellery due to more fragility) and natural rarity command the highest of prices. But it''s all very complex and there are many educational articles and websites out there that you can find (just google something like "gemstone buying guide" and you''ll probably find many).

 

[chrono]

Date: 12/10/2009 6:44:56 AM
Author:Star17
Hi guys,
JAs a new gem lover/luster I am just wondering if anybody can help me out - prob a stupid question but here it goes ...

I am just wondering why there is such a variation in the coost of gems? For example the one on the link below looks gorgeous and this supplier has many other stones that are very reasonable in price...

http://www.customgemstones.com/NewStone.html


Then other sites charge 1000s for their gems - how do you know what you are buying and why the diff in prices??

Thanks,
Star

Are you comparing the same purple spinel of the same size? If so, then you’ll see that prices will be similar. If not, there are many explanations:
1. The rarer the stone, the more expensive the price.
2. The purer the hue, the more expensive the price.
3. A stone that is too dark or too light in saturation will be priced less.
4. The more intense the saturation, the more expensive the price.
5. The larger the stone, the more expensive the price.
6. An eye clean stone will be more expensive than something with inclusions that can be seen with the naked eye.

The golden rule is to buy from a trusted source with a good return policy. If it is something rare and/or expensive, it is not unusual to have the purchase contingent upon a reputable lab certification.

 

[morecarats]

Date: 12/10/2009 6:44:56 AM
Author:Star17
Hi guys,

JAs a new gem lover/luster I am just wondering if anybody can help me out - prob a stupid question but here it goes ...

I am just wondering why there is such a variation in the coost of gems? For example the one on the link below looks gorgeous and this supplier has many other stones that are very reasonable in price...

http://www.customgemstones.com/NewStone.html

Then other sites charge 1000s for their gems - how do you know what you are buying and why the diff in prices??

Thanks,

Star

It''s a very good question, and it pertains to many domains, not just gemstones. Why do audiophiles pay incredible prices for high-end audio equipment when mass market gear is available for thousands less? Why do some people pay top prices for designer shoes when knockoffs are available for 90% less? And so on.

The answer lies in the concept of concept of connoisseurship. Connoisseurs value the small differences that make some products superior to ordinary goods. It takes education, taste and sensitivity to be a connoisseur. It also takes money, but connoisseurs spend their money differently. A connoisseur of modest means will be pleased with just a few fine specimens where someone of a different sensibility would rather acquire a large collection of indifferent quality.

You''ll find that this forum has a high degree of connoisseurship. Most of the contributors are very sensitive to issues of cut, clarity, color and size, and typically offer excellent advice in comparing and valuing gemstones, and setting them in jewelry.

 

[Edward Bristol]

A terrific color is priceless.

 

[mjd]

Thanks so much for the info and comments - as usually people on this forum are extremely helpful and friendly!

 

[T L]

Branding also inflates prices as well. For example, a branded Tiffany & Co ring will be more than a ring from Whiteflash, all other things being equal, stone quality, diamond weight, workmanship, metal, etc. . .

 

[movie zombie]

there is something for every budget. higher quality commands higher prices. a fab color, fab cut, high crystal stone is going to command a lot more $.
treated v. untreated. native cut? above all color tone and saturation: is there a grey or brown mask?
example: do not expect a $100 per carat spinel to perform as well as a $1000 per carat spinel.

remember: you get what you pay for; therefore, becoming educated re what constitutes a good stone v. a fab stone is paramount.
most of us always make a trade off regarding price v. quality. knowing what i can live with is important before i make a purchase. i can''t abide extinction....with windowing being a close 2nd.

even with a less expensive stone such as amethyst it is important to know what constitutes a good v. fine stone. we each want to get the most bang for our $. knowing the color attributes of a 4 Peaks v a siberian amethyst.....do i want red flashes, blue flashes, or both?

the world of color gems is not cut and dried. ultimately it comes down to what pleases YOUR eye...........and what your budget is. i''d love a budget that could keep up with my "eye" that i''ve developed!

mz

ps a good place to start is with this book: Secrets of the Gem Trade by Richard Wise. explore the web. read other books. with color stones as with all things: let the buyer beware. you cannot necessarily trust vendor pictures to be accurate [in fairness color gems are hard to photograph but many enhance their pictures], trust vendor descriptions, etc. it is important to make sure there is a good return policy! do not despair as there really are some nice stones for every budget. will they compare to a world class stone? no, but then they won''t command high prices and will still be pleasing to my eye.

most importantly: enjoy this wonderful world of color gems!

 

[T L]

Avoiding middlemen helps too. I know this is controversial, but I buy from a dealer that lots of other dealers buy from, so my cost for the same quality will be less than what they would sell it for. Many lapidaries that are frequently mentioned on this board are able to offer good values in gems because they source the rough from rough dealers, and cut it themselves, avoiding additional middlemen in the process. I do search out value that way. I'm not saying you're going to get a top quality gem for peanuts, but you can get the price down a bit by avoiding middlemen. However, some dealers make a fantastic living by knowing how to nitpick fine gems, and you're paying for their ability to spot good quality, and that's fine. I choose to do the searching myself, but that's just me. In my case, having a good eye is beneficial for me, and like MZ said, education is key. I don't expect a gem novice to be able to easily spot value without lots of experience and knowledge.

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 12/11/2009 12:24:39 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Avoiding middlemen helps too. I know this is controversial, but I buy from a dealer that lots of other dealers buy from, so my cost for the same quality will be less than what they would sell it for. Many lapidaries that are frequently mentioned on this board are able to offer good values in gems because they source the rough from rough dealers, and cut it themselves, avoiding additional middlemen in the process. I do search out value that way. I''m not saying you''re going to get a top quality gem for peanuts, but you can get the price down a bit by avoiding middlemen. However, some dealers make a fantastic living by knowing how to nitpick fine gems, and you''re paying for their ability to spot good quality, and that''s fine. I choose to do the searching myself, but that''s just me. In my case, having a good eye is beneficial for me, and like MZ said, education is key. I don''t expect a gem novice to be able to easily spot value without lots of experience and knowledge.

amen.

it is unreasonable to expect to get a top gem for a low price. i think many are disappointed when their stone arrives because they have this expectation.

i don''t mind paying someone for their "eye" for a very special or hard to source stone....such as a stone for an e-ring. otherwise, i prefer learning about and hunting for my own stones.

value for $ is what its all about for me.....and the hunt. its so much more fun and interesting with more knowledge and information. i don''t end up feeling ripped off. i understand what trade offs i had to make. i don''t blame the vendor for his/her prices. the only person in control of my decisions is me; therefore, i need to take that responsibility and be a knowledgeable consumer.

admittedly, it helps that i''m rather anal about making purchases and pretty much research anything and everything before i buy. that''s how i found pricescope in the first place! researching diamonds.........to make sure we got the best bang for the $ for my e-ring......then i ended up in the world of color stones and with a spessartite e-ring! no regrets!

mz

 

[ma re]

Date: 12/11/2009 12:24:39 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Many lapidaries that are frequently mentioned on this board are able to offer good values in gems because they source the rough from rough dealers, and cut it themselves, avoiding additional middlemen in the process.

While this is true in theory, it works best with larger or more expensive materials due to cutting fees. Precision cutting costs at least 10 times more (and sometimes much more than that) than native cutting and while you do, most of the time, end up with a better looking stone, you''re paying quite a lot for cutting. As far as I know, cutters usually ask for at least 50$/ct (and I''ve heard some are asking 3 times that), so if you get them to cut you a citrine, you won''t get it much cheaper than at any standard retailer - in fact, you''ll get it for much more - but it will be nicer than most other citrines you''ll see.

 

[T L]

Date: 12/11/2009 1:18:09 PM
Author: ma re

Date: 12/11/2009 12:24:39 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Many lapidaries that are frequently mentioned on this board are able to offer good values in gems because they source the rough from rough dealers, and cut it themselves, avoiding additional middlemen in the process.

While this is true in theory, it works best with larger or more expensive materials due to cutting fees. Precision cutting costs at least 10 times more (and sometimes much more than that) than native cutting and while you do, most of the time, end up with a better looking stone, you're paying quite a lot for cutting. As far as I know, cutters usually ask for at least 50$/ct (and I've heard some are asking 3 times that), so if you get them to cut you a citrine, you won't get it much cheaper than at any standard retailer - in fact, you'll get it for much more - but it will be nicer than most other citrines you'll see.

I think a precision cut gem of a higher end material will be more of a value than a precision cut amethyst, but a lot of these guys do work for peanuts when you consider how many hours and painstaking work they put into precision faceting a gem. That being said, some lapidaries, not all, do charge a significant premium for their faceting.

Native cutting will generally be more of a bargain, all else being equal, on a particular colored gem. Therefore, I do tend to shop for decent native cuts (and some not so well cut if the color is awesome). My oval tsavorite that I recently obtained is such a stone. It has very nice native portuguese cutting and no window. While the violet spinel isn't the greatest native cutting, I was having such a difficult time finding that color from the precision facetors, that I ignored that it wasn't precision faceted.

In the end, it depends what your priorities are. To me, native cuts, can help keep the cost down in a nice colored gem, but I do think that some of the lapidaries that frequent here, do offer good value on their precision cuts as well.

ETA: I wish I knew how to precision facet my own gems, because some dealers offer a signficant discount on nice color, if a window is huge or the native cutting is just abysmal. If I were a precision facetor, I would take advantage of recutting horrible native cuts and reselling. You can find lots of large spinels with nice color, at good prices, with horrible cutting (hint hint lapidaries out there).

 

[PrecisionGem]

Date: 12/11/2009 1:18:09 PM
Author: ma re

Date: 12/11/2009 12:24:39 PM

Author: tourmaline_lover


Many lapidaries that are frequently mentioned on this board are able to offer good values in gems because they source the rough from rough dealers, and cut it themselves, avoiding additional middlemen in the process.

While this is true in theory, it works best with larger or more expensive materials due to cutting fees. Precision cutting costs at least 10 times more (and sometimes much more than that) than native cutting and while you do, most of the time, end up with a better looking stone, you''re paying quite a lot for cutting. As far as I know, cutters usually ask for at least 50$/ct (and I''ve heard some are asking 3 times that), so if you get them to cut you a citrine, you won''t get it much cheaper than at any standard retailer - in fact, you''ll get it for much more - but it will be nicer than most other citrines you''ll see.

I don''t think this is actually true. While it is true that a cutter in the USA, Germany, Russia, will get paid more for cutting a stone than one in China, India or Africa, the stone isn''t changing hands as much. Every time a stone changes hands, the price pretty much doubles. So if an Asian cutting house travels to Africa, buys a piece of rough for $50, pays their cutter $0.25 to cut it, they then may sell the stone to a local dealer for $100. This local dealer sells it to an international gem dealer for $200, who then sells it to a retail store, or maybe you if you are lucky for $400. Or you pay $800 retail.

Or the precision cutter could buy the stone for $50, or maybe a bit more since he isn''t buying in such large qty, cut spending 3 or more hours on the stone, and still sell it you for under $400. This makes it worth his time, and you end up with a better cut stone, at a better price.

Certainly with a $1 stone this doesn''t work out, and that''s why you don''t see cutters cutting 1/4 ct stones, especially in less expensive material.

 

[T L]

Good synopsis Gene, and exemplifies why I try to buy stones with as few middlemen as possible!!

ETA: Gene you are one of the select few faceters that do not charge too much for your fabulous atristry though. We continue to appreciate that and the fact that you give good precision cut prices on good rough prices.

While $400 for that stone may be YOUR price, it might be $1200 for another faceter.

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 12/11/2009 4:06:12 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Good synopsis Gene, and exemplifies why I try to buy stones with as few middlemen as possible!!

ditto!

mz