Did I get taken for a ride?

[seeker78]

Dude, I''m not understanding why you feel you have to walk on eggshells with this whole situation! You are the one spending the money on the stone, not him. First of all, from his "perspective", he is NOT giving you a stone he feels is "a good stone for the money", he''s giving you a stone that he got dirt cheap because it''s less-than-ideal cut. As far as his perspective goes, he''s a salesman, and he wants to make as much money as possible from each sale. It''s like if you go to a car dealership and they have a nice car that has 1000 in profit for them, and a not-so-nice car that has 4000 in profit for them, which one do you think they will try to sell you? This guys not going to be insulted, he''s going to know you did a little homework. If he really is reputable, he''s going to want to make you happy, and not put something negative associated with his name out there. I understand that you might be a person who likes to avoid conflict, but in this situation you need to be firm...this is the ring you are going to give to your future wife for gods sake. What do you care more about, his "feelings" or her having a ring you know is of very good quality? When I was looking for a stone for my girlfriend, I refused many, many stones, and angered more than one jeweler, but who cares? I ended up with a KILLER stone.

 

[tulip928]

All I can say is: take care of this now, instead of waiting for your lady to come to the realization that the stone is lacking and wondering "What was he thinking?" (IF that''s the case when you compare it to a better quality stone). My husband took some guy''s word, and I''m the one who realized he was either taken or looking for a "deal". You don''t want to go there. With the amount of money you''re putting out, do it right and don''t worry about the jeweler''s feelings . . . with tact of course

!

 

[GIJoeCam]

Although I may sound undure of myself at this point, rest assured, I''m not afraid of conflict. I would just rather not insult the guy, that''s all. I''ll just have to see how reasonable he is on Monday.

Thanks again, gang.

-Joe

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 3/3/2006 6:19:40 PM
Author: GIJoeCam
Although I may sound undure of myself at this point, rest assured, I''m not afraid of conflict. I would just rather not insult the guy, that''s all. I''ll just have to see how reasonable he is on Monday.

Thanks again, gang.

-Joe

Joe, I think you can do that by saying two things: "The ring itself---the setting---is lovely. I''m a bit disappointed on the stone(s), though, and would like to work with you to improve them.

I really was anticipating a GIA or AGS stone, and I realize I should have been clearer on that. It''s not just the paper, though.....the stone just doesnt'' sparkle the way I''d hoped. I''ve been reading a little, and I realize that I should have specified how important cut is to me since that affects the sparkle. I''d like the keep the setting, but I''d like to work with you to improve the cut quality of the diamonds."

I''m sure he''ll be helpful.

 

[GIJoeCam]

Thanks for the advice! That''s much more eloquent than I could have put it.... I''ll have to rehearse it now!

-Joe

 

[solange]

You might have gotten what you paid for in regard to the custom setting and stones. I have no way of knowing that. The price does not seem excessive for a custom made ring with that amount of stones. You could tell him that you appreciate the timeliness and quality of his work. However, you feel the center stone, which is the main feature of the ring, does not have enough spread because it is too deep.

See if he is willing to get you a better center stone. You can also say you thought you were getting a GIA graded stone and would prefer that but I would not make an issue of that since GIA stones are priced higher and you may have paid for EGL. Since you were thinking of buying a stone on pricescope and trying to sell this one--which would result in a big loss--you might, if necessary, offer to pay a little more for a more attractive stone. I do not know if the sidestones are an issue for you.

Tell him you want to see some stones with a lot of life and more spread when you compare them to the one you have now. You could probably even go down a bit in size and get the same spread in more lively stone. Someone here mentioned keeping away from flourescence but a lot of people here love it and go out of their way to find stones with flourescence so that should not be a deterrent. Also, sometimes they cost less and make the stone look brighter. You could also possibly go down on color to an EGL H. If it is GIA, a well cut I or J can be very attractive, particularly with some flourescence, and you will get more for your money in a lower color but better cut stone. You can also tell him you would take an eye clean SI 2.
Good luck on Monday.

 

[scarleta]

Try to take it easy a bit,, I have been there too that''s why I am still here...People here have been very helpfull and I am still in the process of education... You were given so many good ideas so you can learn . Just take it easy and surely things will sort themselves out ...

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 3/6/2006 1:52:04 AM
Author: apexboys
Hey there!


Don''t fret yet! Take it to a GIA graduate gemologist and see what he says.

My local jeweler is a graduaate gemologist, that is not the same thing as an independant appraisar. I recommend having your own independant appraiser evaluate a stone and appraise the ring once it''s done.

 

[GIJoeCam]

Update:

I've stared at that ring about a thousand times in the last week, and decided I wanted to see what my alternatives are. The more I looked at it, the less happy I was with the setting as well... it's not quite the look I was aiming for. Don't get me wrong, it's nice, but not quite perfect. I had also asked to make a change to the wax that he said would be OK, and it didn't happen on the finished ring. I almost forgot about it until the other day.

So I called him. [deep breath]

I asked him about the setting, and what it would take to make a change to it, which we had actually discussed when I looked at the wax, but hadn't happened on the final ring. Basically, I'm looking at buying another new ring. He's pretty much told me that he doesn't think the change that needs to be made can be done (it's just a matter of filling in a valley to smooth the look, nothing structural) and doesn't sound very interested in helping either. I never even got a chance to talk to him about the stone, but did manage to get on the list for Tuesday to sit down and discuss my options. (Still not sure I'll take him up on that....)

Dealing with him seemed like it was going to be fine, but now he's starting to sound pompous and arrogant... slowly degenerating into bad-jeweler territory. So, I called another local jeweler that was very friendly and VERY helpful. They're 2 minutes from work and one of the places I dealt with heavily a couple months ago when I was still in the 'just looking' stage. They have been in business for 60 years, and have a great reputation in the area. They were going to be my first choice until 'Bob' came along.

So, I called Hugh, and explained the situation to him, and he was very understanding and sympathetic to the situation I was in. I'm on my way over to sit down with him (and some stones) and discuss my options. I think I'm a little more confident that they can make the EXACT setting I'm looking for.... But we'll see what they can do for me. I'm thinking I may end up having them re-set the existing stones in a new mounting, then turn the original one into a nice necklace. Not sure how much I'd be looking at for a custom mount, but I'm sure that I'm probably looking at a couple grand for the work I want done, if not more.... but I digress....

I'm not making any solid plans today, other than to explore my options. I'll also sit and talk stones with him, not that I'm a bit wiser. I'll take down as much info as they'll let me (measurements, prices, etc) and put it to the 'experts' here to make a better choice this time.

Also, for those of you that had asked about what the ring looks like, I've finally had a chance to upload them to my gallery on Yahoo. My apologies for the over-sized fuzzy pics and the hairy knuckles, but it's the best I could do... http://briefcase.yahoo.com/gijoecam in the 'Stuff' folder. (She'll never find them there!!)


-Joe

 

[GIJoeCam]

Oh, and for those that may be interested, this was the inspiration for it:

http://www.verragio.com/#prodid=114

I''m not too keen on the look from the side: IMHO, it still looks like a gussied-up solitaire. I wanted to see the grooves between the center and side stones (along the prong and the inside channel) filled in and smoothed over, so that the metal flowed out from underneath the center stone and up the sides, like a more common 3-stone setting (like the ones you see all over town). I thought we were clear when I left that day, but apparently not, and when I picked it up, I though I would be OK with it, but I''m not....

(No need to pile on.... I''ve kicked myself enough LOL!!)

-Joe

 

[Rod]

I''m not sure you should be beating yourself up. Sure, you could have researched more before you bought. But not everyone has the time or the inclination. And sure, you could have been more insistent that you wanted a GIA or AGS graded stone. But, having just looked at the pictures, the ring is mighty pretty and I''m betting that if you are not able to get your jeweler to alter the setting or upgrade the center stone, your intended will be one mighty happy gal, none-the-less.

 

[phoenixgirl]

Is there a return policy? Even if the new jeweler is helpful, he''s not going to credit you the amount you just paid for your ring (or if he does, it''ll probably mean the new ring''s price is inflated). I''m worried that while you''re exploring your options, the fine print is going to say that you ran out of time to return your old ring or that you were never able to in the first place. ???

 

[GIJoeCam]

Date: 3/10/2006 3:22:19 PM
Author: Rod
I''m not sure you should be beating yourself up. Sure, you could have researched more before you bought. But not everyone has the time or the inclination. And sure, you could have been more insistent that you wanted a GIA or AGS graded stone. But, having just looked at the pictures, the ring is mighty pretty and I''m betting that if you are not able to get your jeweler to alter the setting or upgrade the center stone, your intended will be one mighty happy gal, none-the-less.

Indeed, she''s told me she''d be happy with one out of a Cracker Jack box as long as I''m on one knee when I give it to her, although I don''t think she really meant it....

Also, there is no return policy. It was a cash sale, and final, so what''s done is done.

I talked with the local shop.... I need to stew on it over the weekend. I have some choices, and a bit more research to do.... We looked at a few stones and compared them to the one I''ve already got, and there was a noticable difference in teh fire and brilliance. Also, mine appeared to have a less-sparkly center area (although some of it could be because it was set) and just didn''t seem a sparkly as the one he showed me.

She''s waiting for me to have dinner, so I need to run. I''ll bring everyone up to speed as soon as I can slip away (probably Sunday morning when she sleeps late)....

 

[solange]

The photos are so large that it is hard to tell but it does look like the Verragio setting. If you paid around $5,000 for the whole deal, You probably did not get the highest quality workmanship but it does look very attractive.

Instead of ruining your weekend stewing about it, relax and wait until Tuesday. I think the ring is very lovely as it is. If you aim for perfection, you will probably have to pay a good deal more to get a Designer custom made setting.

I hate vendors who are as sweet as sugar when you are giving them money--especially cash--and then turn sour when you want what you expected. Since you seem to want to go to additional expense to improve upon what you have, I would just focus on getting a center stone with better proportions and spread--around 60 and 61.5 in depth and offer to pay the difference.

You can always change the setting at a later date so I would just concentrate on getting a better center stone. This one may look dark in the center because it is deep. However, it is very difficult for an inexperienced person to see the nuances often described here. I know I can't. If you are going to spend more money, I would concentrate on the center stone if you are not happy with it..

Also, now that he has become less friendly, you should take a stronger stand on what you want done and,once you get what you want, tell him you are a dissatisfied customer and would never recommend anyone to him. It seems he has a competitor in the area and maybe he can suggest someone who can refine the setting if the original guy will not do it.

I don't see how you can make it into a necklace. For the cost of the workmanship and stones,you can probably buy something ready made that you can see before you buy it. Custom made items are a blind thing unless you go to Quest, Mege. Morrell, Whiteflash or someone in that category.

 

[GIJoeCam]

Well, good news.

I sat down with the *other* trusted Jeweler on Friday. He told me that, while it was definately a nice ring, they also use EGL-USA certs too (in addition to GIA). He let me see a few comparable stones, and yes, they did have ever-so-slightly more fire and brilliance under a 10x loupe. However, to the naked eye, I honestly couldn''t see a difference.

It was this stone:
GIA cert.
.70 ct
Depth: 62%
Table: 59%
Very good polish and symmetry
SI 1
F color

Unfortunately, he said that the owners were unlikely to take my original stone on a trade. I asked flat-out what it would cost to buy that stone and have it set in my ring. He quoted me $2900. That seemed a little on the high side, but competetive as it included setting the stone. Unfortunately, I can''t pony-up another 3-grand on top of what I already spent, so I think that, for the time being, that option is probably out..

(on a side note, they commented on the fact that, aside from the main stone selection, it''s an otherwise very well-made ring)

Well, I also sat down with Bob today (the original guy) and explained what I was hoping to have done. He even admitted he remembered me mentioning it when I viewed the wax, but never thought about it when I picked it up (given the volume of private side-sales this guy does in addition to his regular corporate accounts, that isn''t a surprise). He made a quick phone call to the head of his manufacturing plant, and ''Nicky'' said it would be no problem to fill in the grooves and smooth it over. Bob was a bit reluctant to try and fix it at first, but told me that worst case, he''d have to re-cast it, take the stones out of the original one and put them in the new one, and there would be some labor involved there. I asked him how much in labor and materials would be needed to cast a new setting and re-mount the stones worst-case? His reply was $350. (I was expecting $1200+!!) I was also a little leery of filling in the grooves, being worried that the fillings might pop out or chip out. He insisted that once the filler material is in place, and it gets zapped with their laser, it fuses it all together, and I wouldn''t have to worry about a thing. He told me that if something goes horribly wrong on that front, they''ll just re-cast a new setting for me, and it might take an extra day.

I also asked about the stone, (although after looking at it, I think I''m going to be happy with the one I''ve got). We talked a little bit about EGL certs vs GIA/AGS, etc, and also looked at a couple of other stones. Yes, what I got wasn''t the best money could buy, but I''ve decided that it''ll be just fine for us. Also, if I decide to upgrade the stone to a larger one at a later date, he''d give me the going rate for my stone at that time, but because of the way the ring is made, I''d also need to have it re-cast (again for an extra $350), but it wouldn''t be a problem to do so. He said they''d just make a new ring and re-set the stones, keeping the proportions the same. He said that once they''ve got one made, re-making one with a slight change for a larger stone is no big deal.

So, long story short, he''s filling in the grooves, no charge, and was a lot more willing to work with me along the way. Maybe he''s not so bad after all? I''ll post an ''after'' shot in the gallery I posted above as soon as I can.

[fingers crossed for now]

Assuming it comes in next week, I''ll be a taken man next Saturday... but that''s another story for another forum...

-Joe

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 3/14/2006 8:08:37 PM
Author: GIJoeCam

I also asked about the stone, (although after looking at it, I think I''m going to be happy with the one I''ve got). We talked a little bit about EGL certs vs GIA/AGS, etc, and also looked at a couple of other stones. Yes, what I got wasn''t the best money could buy, but I''ve decided that it''ll be just fine for us. Also, if I decide to upgrade the stone to a larger one at a later date, he''d give me the going rate for my stone at that time, but because of the way the ring is made, I''d also need to have it re-cast (again for an extra $350), but it wouldn''t be a problem to do so. He said they''d just make a new ring and re-set the stones, keeping the proportions the same. He said that once they''ve got one made, re-making one with a slight change for a larger stone is no big deal.

So, long story short, he''s filling in the grooves, no charge, and was a lot more willing to work with me along the way. Maybe he''s not so bad after all? I''ll post an ''after'' shot in the gallery I posted above as soon as I can.

[fingers crossed for now]

Assuming it comes in next week, I''ll be a taken man next Saturday... but that''s another story for another forum...

-Joe

of course no charge. why should you pay for the repair?

it''s not your fault.