Dreamer_D
Super_Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2007
- Messages
- 25,590
Re: Deciding not to have children and coming to terms with i
Very nice post Alj. I just wanted to comment on a couple things. First, all of the sentiments that you listed are very common for people who do want children too. I am not saying you are wrong in this case about what they may mean when all put together, and Zoe can think on it herself of couse (not trying to put words in anyone's mouth), but just wanted to say that many many career minded independent women have all of those concerns and more about having kids.
Also, regarding the second point, I also respectfully disagree. My research actually centers on the ways in which people can persistently avoid pursuing and accomplishing their heart's desires -- be they kids, career, or relationships -- and I am constatly surprised at how good people can get at avoiding pursing things that are painful to potentially lose or fail at achieving. The thing is, when people avoid things utterly or deny their importance or self-handicap, it does not necessarily mean that the goal of kids/career/relationships does not exist for them. Indeed it may be a very very strong motive for them. It simply means that another goal, usually the goal of avoiding failure, hurt, and humiliation, is STRONGER at that point in time. For all of the most important goals in life there is a double edged sword to goal pursuit -- accomplishment would be amazing but failure would be devastating. So people typically experience a motivational conflict between truly desiring to accomplish something and at the exact same time truly fearing failure and wanting to avoid pursing the goal to avoid potential pain and loss. In my research, people are fairly split on whether they opt to pursue the goal or whether they opt to avoid failure, and people preferences tend to be fairly consistent -- some people are approach success types and some are avoid failure types. If a person is the latter type, and they are faced with a conflict between really desiring something and fearing failure, then their behaviour will utterly and completely NOT demonstrate that they actually desire to accomplish the goal. The only place where their actual desires for achieving the goal will be evident is in their moods, personal thoughts, and private moments when they let their guard down and admit how they truly feel. And even then some people will not admit it, even to themselves, because it is too painful. [You may wonder how we study it then
but that would be a whole other story. There are ways to remove some of the risk of goal pursuit thus revealing someone's true desires, and ways of getting around defenses etc]
So my point is that we cannot look at a person's behaviour in a situation of motivational conflict and ascertain their true feelings. And I think that Zoe is in a situation like that now. It may be the case that she truly wants kids and fears that she will fail at accomplishing the goal. OR it may be that she really does not want kids and fears the reprisals from others. In both cases, there is a motivational conflict between wanting to pursue a goal (kids/no kids) and wanting to avoid pain and suffering (from failure or from social recrimination). The only way for Zoe to know how she really truly feels is to try to ignore her fear-based doubts and anxieties, and in a safe and secure environment search her thoughts and try to identify her true goal in this whole scenerio. I suspect that fear and worry and anxiety is getting in the way -- but whether it is getting in the way of pursuing having kids, or getting in the way of embracing a child free life, only she can say.
Unless she wants to come into my lab and let me experiment on her
Allison D. said:
Very nice post Alj. I just wanted to comment on a couple things. First, all of the sentiments that you listed are very common for people who do want children too. I am not saying you are wrong in this case about what they may mean when all put together, and Zoe can think on it herself of couse (not trying to put words in anyone's mouth), but just wanted to say that many many career minded independent women have all of those concerns and more about having kids.
Also, regarding the second point, I also respectfully disagree. My research actually centers on the ways in which people can persistently avoid pursuing and accomplishing their heart's desires -- be they kids, career, or relationships -- and I am constatly surprised at how good people can get at avoiding pursing things that are painful to potentially lose or fail at achieving. The thing is, when people avoid things utterly or deny their importance or self-handicap, it does not necessarily mean that the goal of kids/career/relationships does not exist for them. Indeed it may be a very very strong motive for them. It simply means that another goal, usually the goal of avoiding failure, hurt, and humiliation, is STRONGER at that point in time. For all of the most important goals in life there is a double edged sword to goal pursuit -- accomplishment would be amazing but failure would be devastating. So people typically experience a motivational conflict between truly desiring to accomplish something and at the exact same time truly fearing failure and wanting to avoid pursing the goal to avoid potential pain and loss. In my research, people are fairly split on whether they opt to pursue the goal or whether they opt to avoid failure, and people preferences tend to be fairly consistent -- some people are approach success types and some are avoid failure types. If a person is the latter type, and they are faced with a conflict between really desiring something and fearing failure, then their behaviour will utterly and completely NOT demonstrate that they actually desire to accomplish the goal. The only place where their actual desires for achieving the goal will be evident is in their moods, personal thoughts, and private moments when they let their guard down and admit how they truly feel. And even then some people will not admit it, even to themselves, because it is too painful. [You may wonder how we study it then
but that would be a whole other story. There are ways to remove some of the risk of goal pursuit thus revealing someone's true desires, and ways of getting around defenses etc]So my point is that we cannot look at a person's behaviour in a situation of motivational conflict and ascertain their true feelings. And I think that Zoe is in a situation like that now. It may be the case that she truly wants kids and fears that she will fail at accomplishing the goal. OR it may be that she really does not want kids and fears the reprisals from others. In both cases, there is a motivational conflict between wanting to pursue a goal (kids/no kids) and wanting to avoid pain and suffering (from failure or from social recrimination). The only way for Zoe to know how she really truly feels is to try to ignore her fear-based doubts and anxieties, and in a safe and secure environment search her thoughts and try to identify her true goal in this whole scenerio. I suspect that fear and worry and anxiety is getting in the way -- but whether it is getting in the way of pursuing having kids, or getting in the way of embracing a child free life, only she can say.
Unless she wants to come into my lab and let me experiment on her
I think I'm just relieved I'm not alone in my indecisiveness!! I've really enjoyed reading this thread and the fantastic advice that's been posted, so thankyou again Zoe xx
However I think it'll all be worth it. DH and I are already in love with this little one now that he/she is on his way. BUT, if you asked me whether I thought it would be worth it a year ago, before I was pregnant, I probably would've said NO.
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