Dark blue sapphire

[MakingTheGrade]

The vendor didn't think the gem was this dark IRL. In any case, I think the photos show promise, and the company is pretty well respected and I've bought from them before, as have other PSers. So for the price, I think it's worth taking a look at. FYI, it was listed at higher, I made an offer which was accepted.

Like TL says, something is suspect, but I hope not

 

[MakingTheGrade]

It terms of recut, I''d like to keep it roval/oval and I don''t mind losing a few mm, as long as it''s around the 7x6 range. The more the better of course, but I"m not a huge size person

 

[Indylady]

I''m also usually not so into size, but I do like the idea of a honking 2.7 carat blue sapphire.

 

[T L]

MTG,
What do YOU think of the stone? Did you check it out in artificial lighting as well?

ETA: Oooops, I thought those were your photos. They're the vendors.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Date: 4/27/2010 2:48:09 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
MTG,

What do YOU think of the stone? Did you check it out in artificial lighting as well?

I don't have the stone yet These are Michael's photos that he took for me. I really like what I see for the most part, so I think I will check it out in person. And if I don't love it I can send it back.

Haha, also TL, you should know that if they were my pictures, there would be a lot more of them!

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Date: 4/27/2010 2:37:15 PM
Author: IndyLady
I'm also usually not so into size, but I do like the idea of a honking 2.7 carat blue sapphire.

I don't mind the idea either...

Michael seems to think very highly of the sapphire, so I'm having him send it over, he's covering the mailing costs, so if I return it I"m only out the return postage. He also gave me an unlimited time frame in which to return so that I can have it evaluated by a lapidary in terms of recutting potential. He's such a doll to work with.

Anybody have good recutting recommendations? I know Gene doesn't do them anymore, but he lives somewhat nearby, and I kind of wondered if I could get his opinion on it even if he didn't cut it. Or is that weird and stalker-ish? What if I brought him bribes of brownies? lol...

 

[LD]

MTG what are you hoping to achieve with the recut?

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Date: 4/27/2010 4:18:58 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
MTG what are you hoping to achieve with the recut?

Better contrast pattern, more scintillation (not sure that''s the right word). I don''t need the color to change, and I''m not looking to converse as much size as possible, I just would want to get rid of the bow tie and extinction and bring some more sparkle and life to it.

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 4/27/2010 6:23:37 PM
Author: MakingTheGrade

Date: 4/27/2010 4:18:58 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
MTG what are you hoping to achieve with the recut?

Better contrast pattern, more scintillation (not sure that''s the right word). I don''t need the color to change, and I''m not looking to converse as much size as possible, I just would want to get rid of the bow tie and extinction and bring some more sparkle and life to it.

that''s a lot to overcome. not impossible but certainly a lot of expectations for a recut. a recut might not gain you much and then you''ll be out the original $ for the stone and $ for the recut.

mz

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Ok. What would be reasonable expectations then? I''ve never recut before so don''t know what to expect. Mariedtiger had Dan recut a oval spinel that brought more life and visual balance. That''s really all I want.

 

[VapidLapid]

What are the red spots? in the first pic i thought it was just something from the camera, but then in the second pic there was more of them. looked like ketchup or lipstick!
but here they are again in the new pics and even in the last one I feel as if i can make one out just under a highlighted crown facet.

 

[T L]

Date: 4/27/2010 6:51:23 PM
Author: MakingTheGrade
Ok. What would be reasonable expectations then? I''ve never recut before so don''t know what to expect. Mariedtiger had Dan recut a oval spinel that brought more life and visual balance. That''s really all I want.

It depends on the stone. Sometimes you can''t attain those things with a recut, and like MZ said, and then you''ll be out your $$$ for the stone and the recut. Sometimes recuts end up worse than the original stone.

 

[Michael_E]

This is a problem and is what VapidLapid is referring to I think. This shows up in two pictures, the first one showing a strong diffractive flash. Its a fracture and it looks like it''s in circular shape. This is one of the things that potentially indicates that a stone has been heated since this sort of fracture can be caused by a fluid filled inclusion expanding during heating and fracturing the stone. It also could cause a problem with recutting, since the material around the fracture can flake off or expand, (becoming more visible). You will want to get this examined prior to committing to buying, to make sure that it can be recut.

 

[VapidLapid]

Yes Michael that''s one. I think that one is the same as the small red dot in first pic. But there is also this one on the side 90 degrees from that one.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Well, I asked them to send it over. If I don't like it as it is, recut or not, I'll just send it back since I obviously have no idea what a recut can and cannot accomplish and I"m not qualified to assess that potential. If I decide to keep it based on how it is, I will certainly send it for AGT cert. I can't really say I can make a call based on fuzzy photos, will definitely inspect it under the loupe when it arrives though.

I'll really only keep the stone if I love the color on sight, it's too much money to spend on a stone that I don't just adore.

 

[VapidLapid]

I don''t know if this means much of anything but when i downloaded the pic files to circle the dots and combine them, the pics display differently off pricescope than on with a strong shift in color. I would describe it as being violet. Dont know if this would be a correspondence with, or diversion from real life.

 

[Indylady]

Date: 4/27/2010 6:51:23 PM
Author: MakingTheGrade
Ok. What would be reasonable expectations then? I''ve never recut before so don''t know what to expect. Mariedtiger had Dan recut a oval spinel that brought more life and visual balance. That''s really all I want.

I remember that spinel, and it was gorgeous after the recut. IIRC it was a pink spinel from Gary Dutton. I''m looking forward to seeing your pictures once you get it in your hands!

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Date: 4/27/2010 8:15:38 PM
Author: VapidLapid
I don''t know if this means much of anything but when i downloaded the pic files to circle the dots and combine them, the pics display differently off pricescope than on with a strong shift in color. I would describe it as being violet. Dont know if this would be a correspondence with, or diversion from real life.

Yeah. That''s why I can ask a billion questions and look at a bunch of pics but a gem can only be really evaluated in person.

 

[mariedtiger]

Hi MTG,

I''m really excited for you to receive this one. I''m hoping it''ll wow you, recut or not, I''m liking the idea of such a big sapphire. The main reason I recut my spinel that was earlier mentioned was that it had a huge window and Dan thought it was a good candidate for a recut, based on the pictures I sent him and later when he saw it in person. It was money well spent, the ring is still one of my favorites

In any case, I''m keeping my fingers crossed for you and this new pretty!

 

[chrono]

I hope it’ll be a good candidate for recutting because the quantity and location of inclusions will play a large factor in that.

 

[mastercutgems]

I think the sapphire is lovely for what it is and that is a saturated fine blue sapphire. There is no window but with the roval step cut pavilion the longer ends are not reflecting the light like the shorter width lengths. therefore a bow tie will result most of the time; more exaggerated in saturated stones.
To get rid of the bow tie will be difficult and i think you would lose more than you would gain. The crown height looks good as the pinpoint circles or halos look like an expanded inclusion; but until you see it under 60 to 100x you are only guessing. it also could be an inclusion that has not expanded???

I like the color as it looks nice; I think it would be a stone worthy of an in hand look as to get a very nice sapphire that color and size ; and if it is unheated or treated is a very good price... After you view it in hand you may decide it does not need the diet of a re-cut???

As many have stated you really must see these gems in person and with Michael''s return policy you really can not complain.

Just my humble opinion as a cutter and collector..

Most respectfully;

 

[LD]

Date: 4/28/2010 9:45:27 AM
Author: mastercutgems
I think the sapphire is lovely for what it is and that is a saturated fine blue sapphire. There is no window but with the roval step cut pavilion the longer ends are not reflecting the light like the shorter width lengths. therefore a bow tie will result most of the time; more exaggerated in saturated stones.
To get rid of the bow tie will be difficult and i think you would lose more than you would gain. The crown height looks good as the pinpoint circles or halos look like an expanded inclusion; but until you see it under 60 to 100x you are only guessing. it also could be an inclusion that has not expanded???

I like the color as it looks nice; I think it would be a stone worthy of an in hand look as to get a very nice sapphire that color and size ; and if it is unheated or treated is a very good price... After you view it in hand you may decide it does not need the diet of a re-cut???

As many have stated you really must see these gems in person and with Michael''s return policy you really can not complain.

Just my humble opinion as a cutter and collector..

Most respectfully;

MTG this is why I asked what you wanted to achieve from a re-cut. It is incredibly difficult to find a roval (or an Oval for that matter) that has no bowtie whatsoever. In all of the above pictures, the bowtie is actually fairly minimal and in some pictures you don''t even notice it. Bearing that in mind, I''m not certain that a recut, where you''ll lose carat weight and stand to potentially lose colour also, would be sensible. If the colour of the sapphire knocks you out when you see it, the chances are you''ll focus on the that rather than the stone''s imperfections!

 

[thresh]

LD: Your statement seems to imply that it is more likely to find an oval without a bowtie than a roval. This is NOT the case. I can''t point you to the proof (no external links), but raytracing experiments demonstrate that the longer the L/W ratio, the worse the bowtie. So ovals are worse for this than rovals. The best solution (a barion cut to give a cone pavillion) will cost some weight, but is do-able for a stone w/ depth like this.

 

[LD]

Date: 4/28/2010 2:23:15 PM
Author: thresh
LD: Your statement seems to imply that it is more likely to find an oval without a bowtie than a roval. This is NOT the case. I can't point you to the proof (no external links), but raytracing experiments demonstrate that the longer the L/W ratio, the worse the bowtie. So ovals are worse for this than rovals. The best solution (a barion cut to give a cone pavillion) will cost some weight, but is do-able for a stone w/ depth like this.

You've misread my post. I wasn't implying that at all. Any fancy cut gemstone may suffer from the curse of a bowtie. In my experience, the worse bowties I've seen have been in pears and ovals. Rovals can suffer from bowties but if you re-read my post you'll see I was saying that I didn't think that it was particularly bad in this roval.

 

[thresh]

Ahh.. oops! It''s quite unfortunate that the Indo-European languages as a whole incorporate such a lack of clarity. If you guys look around, you can find ray-trace studies which show how and why LW ratio causes a bow-tie. You might find it interesting regardless! Sorry for mis-reading that!

 

[VapidLapid]

I like rovals

 

[Michael_E]

Date: 4/28/2010 2:45:46 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
Any fancy cut gemstone may suffer from the curse of a bowtie.

So do round diamonds...except they call them "arrows" and make them a marketing point.

A bow tie is nothing more than a reflection of the viewer. To get rid of it, just back up a ways. If you want to avoid it in a stone design, just avoid facets which are close to being directly opposing on the pavilion. The problem with long, thin stones,(or any stone design with flattish sides), is that the sides of both the girdle and the pavilion are flattish. A barion, being more strongly curved in the pavilion, can avoid having those angled opposing facets and so has a much smaller bow-tie. I would imagine that a long thin stone would respond pretty well to concave cutting to avoid this. At least it would thin out the "bow-tie" and turn it into a "mustache".

 

[LD]

Date: 4/28/2010 4:09:06 PM
Author: Michael_E

Date: 4/28/2010 2:45:46 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
Any fancy cut gemstone may suffer from the curse of a bowtie.

So do round diamonds...except they call them ''arrows'' and make them a marketing point.

A bow tie is nothing more than a reflection of the viewer. To get rid of it, just back up a ways. If you want to avoid it in a stone design, just avoid facets which are close to being directly opposing on the pavilion. The problem with long, thin stones,(or any stone design with flattish sides), is that the sides of both the girdle and the pavilion are flattish. A barion, being more strongly curved in the pavilion, can avoid having those angled opposing facets and so has a much smaller bow-tie. I would imagine that a long thin stone would respond pretty well to concave cutting to avoid this. At least it would thin out the ''bow-tie'' and turn it into a ''mustache''.

This made me laugh my head off!

I think I prefer my gems to have a touch of 007 rather than 1970s disco man! lol

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Hehe...moustache.

Thanks for all the input guys. I will definitely share thoughts and photos when it arrives

 

[celine]

I don''t think its too dark at all. I really like the electric blue shade! I know you are sending it for a recut. Please do share more pictures!