Amber St. Clare
Brilliant_Rock
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2009
- Messages
- 1,683
Probation and community service. What do you think?
ame|1337640795|3200494 said:Not anywhere near harsh enough. He caused someone such grave emotional distress that the victim killed himself.
amc80|1337642761|3200513 said:ame|1337640795|3200494 said:Not anywhere near harsh enough. He caused someone such grave emotional distress that the victim killed himself.
Do you consider the victim's reaction to be proportional and appropriate to the crime? Sorry, but I don't. I don't think people should be held responsible for the end result when the end result is so outside the realm of what a predicted response would be. If I tease or harass someone for whatever reason and they feel the need to commit suicide, obviously there were MUCH bigger issues going on in that person's head.
I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but it's my opinion.
aljdewey|1337645305|3200533 said:amc80|1337642761|3200513 said:ame|1337640795|3200494 said:Not anywhere near harsh enough. He caused someone such grave emotional distress that the victim killed himself.
Do you consider the victim's reaction to be proportional and appropriate to the crime? Sorry, but I don't. I don't think people should be held responsible for the end result when the end result is so outside the realm of what a predicted response would be. If I tease or harass someone for whatever reason and they feel the need to commit suicide, obviously there were MUCH bigger issues going on in that person's head.
I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but it's my opinion.
Seriously? How can you even sit in judgment on the state of mind of the young man who took his life? Do you know what his life had been like up to that point? Is it conceivable to you at all that his state of mind may have been years in the making....that he's probably been hassled about his orientation prior to this?
This kid was put into a situation where he had ZERO personal privacy. He was so upset about it that he begged for relief from the school administration, who did positively nothing to help him. Wouldn't help him, wouldn't move him, nothing. Sorry, kid - suck it up. How in the world can you possibly know how hopeless he may have felt in those moments?
Would you be saying the same thing if it was your son being targeted? Would you be saying the same if it was your son who felt such hopeless despair that he ended his life? Somehow, I don't think so.
For me, it's super hard to buy the "oh, I didn't know it would end in that" - how many kids over the past couple years have taken their lives in despair over being bullied because they're gay? Seems like I"m reading something about it every week or two; it's not news anymore. But even if he didn't foresee it, couldn't predict it, he fully did intend to humiliate and shame him. He did fully intend to make that young kid a spectacle and target of ridicule, so I'm having a real tough time feeling sympathy for him. He's breathing. He's here to hear his mother sob. Tyler isn't.
If disagreeing with you can only be categorized at flaming, then I guess I'm first in line to flame because I don't agree at all that people shouldn't be held accountable for their actions.
rainwood|1337645011|3200531 said:It's hard to know what the right sentence is in this case. I read the extended New Yorker piece about what happened and the situation was a bit more complicated than most of the news stories I read made it out to be. What Ravi did was terrible (although somewhat different than what most news reports said), but the victim also had a difficult home life (lack of support or approval from very religious parents and some anxiety/depression issues if I remember correctly) that may have factored in to his choosing suicide. We'll never know for sure. My guess is that Ravi's life is ruined regardless of the sentence, which is the bigger punishment anyway.
aljdewey|1337645305|3200533 said:This kid was put into a situation where he had ZERO personal privacy. He was so upset about it that he begged for relief from the school administration, who did positively nothing to help him. Wouldn't help him, wouldn't move him, nothing. Sorry, kid - suck it up. How in the world can you possibly know how hopeless he may have felt in those moments?
packrat|1337649296|3200592 said:I know there's no way to predict how someone will react to teasing/bullying/being made a target of ridicule but..how about..BE F-ING NICE TO PEOPLE? Then guess what? You don't have to say oh shit dude, I didn't mean it. Because maaaaybe next time the one being teased/bullied/being made the target of ridicule will take it out on the person DOING IT instead. GAWD. If I found out my kid did that crap to another kid I'd box his fecking ears. And if some kid was doing that to my kid, I'd box his fecking parents ears. Idiot parents raising idiot kids. It's not about how someone reacts to something like that, it shouldn't happen in the first place. If you poke 10 different dogs in the face w/a stick, maybe only one bites you. Do you NEED to poke the dogs in the face w/a stick to know that there's a possibility that you may get bit?
Maria D|1337646994|3200549 said:rainwood|1337645011|3200531 said:It's hard to know what the right sentence is in this case. I read the extended New Yorker piece about what happened and the situation was a bit more complicated than most of the news stories I read made it out to be. What Ravi did was terrible (although somewhat different than what most news reports said), but the victim also had a difficult home life (lack of support or approval from very religious parents and some anxiety/depression issues if I remember correctly) that may have factored in to his choosing suicide. We'll never know for sure. My guess is that Ravi's life is ruined regardless of the sentence, which is the bigger punishment anyway.
I read that article and came away with the same thoughts rainwood.
Also, looking back at the timeline of events, there was not a longterm pattern of bullying and harassment; things happened very quickly. I don't think anyone can say with any certainty that Ravi drove Clementi to suicide. The school did not have time to react to Clementi's room change request as it came the day before he ended his life. Clementi had come out to his family less than a month prior to committing suicide and told a friend that his father was accepting but his mother dismissive. While I am so saddened that this poor young man was overcome with the stresses of his life and infuriated that Ravi compounded the problem, I don't think Ravi can be blamed for his suicide.
Kaleigh|1337647033|3200550 said:I also wish I could channel my brother to let you all know what he went through. He was tormented and teased to no end. He would tell you how hard it was for him. He was disowned by my family. I hated every thing he had to go through.
At the end of the day, I know I was there for him, and did everything I could for him. I was there when no one else was. It's a blessing and a curse. I have such pain, because of what he went through, much like survivors guilt.
amc80|1337642761|3200513 said:ame|1337640795|3200494 said:Not anywhere near harsh enough. He caused someone such grave emotional distress that the victim killed himself.
Do you consider the victim's reaction to be proportional and appropriate to the crime? Sorry, but I don't. I don't think people should be held responsible for the end result when the end result is so outside the realm of what a predicted response would be. If I tease or harass someone for whatever reason and they feel the need to commit suicide, obviously there were MUCH bigger issues going on in that person's head.
I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but it's my opinion.
innerkitten|1337653445|3200658 said:Kaleigh|1337647033|3200550 said:I also wish I could channel my brother to let you all know what he went through. He was tormented and teased to no end. He would tell you how hard it was for him. He was disowned by my family. I hated every thing he had to go through.
At the end of the day, I know I was there for him, and did everything I could for him. I was there when no one else was. It's a blessing and a curse. I have such pain, because of what he went through, much like survivors guilt.
OT: That happened to a good friend of mine. When he told his parents he was gay they turned their backs on him. He's only recently had some contact with his mother after many years.
I'm sorry about your brother.
Amber St. Clare|1337633467|3200421 said:Probation and community service. What do you think?
thing2of2|1337652986|3200652 said:Ditto this. The extended New Yorker article paints a very different picture than other news outlets. After reading it I wasn't quite on Ravi's "side," so to speak, but I was more neutral.