D versus F Lucida

[G Weldon]

I know this sounds ridiculous, but I am choosing between a D IF 2.32 and a F IF 2.52. The D stone sparkles slightly more, possibly because the polish is "excellent" and on the F stone it is only "very good." As far as I know, it is very difficult to determine what cut is better for all Tiffany Lucidas as I haven''t seen any published data on the "ideal" cut for a Lucida. In any event, the D stone is significantly more money, but I really want the perfect stone. Also, the F stone has a very small culet, while the D stone has none. The upshot is that the D sparkles more, but the F looks bigger, so I''m torn. I know you''re not supposed to be able to tell between D and F, but everyone who has compared both stones can say that the D sparkles more. It may have to do with the cut of that stone. My ring size is 4 1/2, so I''m thinking that the 2.32 doesn''t look too small, but the 2.52 looks pretty large. I know both of these rings are awesome, but I''m thinking I should go with the one that sparkles more.

 

[newenglandgemlab]

Go for the D!! It sounds to me it is the one you really want. It will bother you down the road if you compromise. The stone sounds just awesome. The pricing will be forgotten soon enough when she starts getting all those compliments. Two grades difference you should be able to notice a difference. When you see a D you know it....When I have a D for grading I have always said there is never a question when color grading. It is just so pure white. Regards, Cindy

 

[G Weldon]

Thanks! It's for me... I hope to get many compliments. I am leaning towards the D because the sparkle is out of this world. My boyfriend is so great... his take on the whole thing is "whatever makes you happy." We are definitely off to a great start!

 

[Daniela]

Definitely the D. It sparkles more, and it called to you. So get it and post pics as soon as you do!

 

[quaeritur]

The D the D the D the D the D!!!

I know I shouldn't be able to, but I can tell the color difference between a D and an F... and there's something awesome about having that D/IF combo, you know, perfection and all.

If the D sparkled visibly more (my guess is the cut is just slightly better than on the F), then that would absolutely be it for me.

Wow, you lucky girl, a HUGE D IF Lucida!!!

<--green w/envy

Wear it well!

 

[moremoremore]

I think b/c the D has more sparkle, that's your answer. The sparkle had to do with the better cut quality of the D over the F (e/t I'm sure they are both great cuts). If the F had has much sparkle as the D, I'd pick the F.

 

[moremoremore]

I think b/c the D has more sparkle, that's your answer. The sparkle had to do with the better cut quality of the D over the F (e/t I'm sure they are both great cuts). If the F had has much sparkle as the D, I'd pick the F.

 

[Kaili]

I agree totally with Moremoremore. Get the D because of the sparkle. I LOVE sparkley stones!

 

[valeria101]

Not that sparkle would have much to do with the color or polish or culet size, but between the two, there is a clear winner as everyone else seems to agree. You definitely didn't go for looks alone here

Lucida is not the most brilliant cut, for all it's beauty...

 

[sluke]

Got for the D. You can't be more perfect than D/IF. Can't wait to see the pics!

 

[G Weldon]

I'll let you guys know what happens... Tiffany's has located a D IF 2.53, but the price is absolutely ridiculous... it's really over what we wanted to spend, but I think that's going to solve my problem of "bigger or brighter." Why not get both qualities?

 

[hoorray]

If price is no object, go for the whole schebang! However, I would bet that if you didn't have the 2.52 next to the 2.32 for comparison, the 2.32 would look nice and big on your hand.

 

[reena]

OR, why not get the best of both worlds AND not break the bank by getting a 2.5c D in a VS or even VVS color grade? i would never ever pay the premium associated with an IF when there's no visual difference between that and a VS--i'd much rather go up in size or just save the $$ for something else--but that's just me.

good luck and be sure to post pics of your beautiful ring.

edited to add: just because the 2.5 has the same color and clarity as the D IF stone you like doesn't mean it's necessarily going to be as brilliant. it's all about the cut.

 

[G Weldon]

I agree about the cut. As an aside, the F had bigger facets. My friend who accompanied me to view the stone thought that the bigger facets looked better. Is there an opinion on this?

 

[moremoremore]

Well, in terms of princess cuts...which this is not, I like it when the facets and the look is "chunkier"....I am guessing that the D had maybe more scintillation in this regard, and that's why you thought it had more 'sparkle?'

 

[G Weldon]

Yeah... the facets on the D stone just weren't as large as those on the F stone. Maybe the facets are simply proportionate to size. This is the thing.. the reason the F was noticeably bigger was because more of the stone was readily apparent, or in the crown so to speak; whereas, the D stone was cut deeper. I thought that the criticism with the Lucida was that the stone was cut too deep as it is. There actually was a significant difference between the two sizes - even though we are only talking .2 of a carat.

 

[valeria101]

Not that D/IF is not rare, but there are enough of the and if any store can present you with option, than a brand like Tiffany can. Or most cutting houses, for what that matters.

2.5cts is enough diamond - so slightly different proportions definitely make a difference in size - not to mention optics and brilliance. If the stone appears to produce strong, large flashes of colour or bright white brilliance can be an effect of proportions alone, as much as the actual size of the facets. The step cut crown of the Lucida is indeed designed to mimic the glitter of an old cut diamonds or step cut ones, without missing on the brilliance of modern diamonds. I hope the stones you see do indeed deliver the both of both worlds.

A D/IF diamond over 2 carats is a great choice, and surely a sale they woudl want to make. I hope there isn't too much preassure on you to buy if the piece does not look perfect indeed.

Actually, there are few diamond cut models that dare combine step and brilliant-style facets - all very closely engineered to make the "step cut" look brilliant. It seems that the top brilliance achievable by the Lucida cut should match the medium range of square modified brilliants (=princess or radiants) but with top fire and scintillation (= play of color and glitter).

Are you familiar with the Ideal Scope?

Below are the Iscope signatures of two stones that should make good refference for the Lucida:

 

[G Weldon]

Okay.. I'm posting the stats.. maybe that will prompt more advice?

Color: D F
weight: 2.32 2.52
measurement: 7.64 x 7.44 x 5.44mm 8.22 x 7.95 x 5.30mm
Depth%: 73.1% 66.7%
Diameter: 58% 57%
Crown Angle: 39% 36%
Pavillion depth:52.4% 50.3%
Girdle: Thick Thin to Medium
Culet: None Very small
Symmetry: Very good Very good
Polish: Excellent Very good
Clarity: IF IF
Fluorescence: None None


See what I mean about the measurements of the D? It makes it look smaller despite only being .2 carats less. On the flip side, is the F stone cut too shallow? Also, can anyone tell which cut is better? I don't think the princess cut guidelines directly apply to the Lucida... I'm really torn here.

 

[valeria101]

Here they are...

Now I see your stats. And obviously the extra depth of the D/IF contributed as much to size as the weight - 20 points are easily 'lost' in cut details in this weight range... as you can see.

 

[valeria101]

Just curious about the D/IF - F/IF alternatives. I understand that D/IF has a serious psichological advantage whenever one wants perfection as GIA defines it. But F/IF is a bit of puzzle - why not F/VS1 of D/VS2 ? There were no options or this is how you chose it to begin with?

 

[G Weldon]

I actually viewed other D/VVS1 and D VVS2 stones, which I ended up eliminating because they didn't wow me. The stats are important to me, but I easily eliminated an E IF 2.62 stone that I looked at based on the way the stone looked. It just didn't sparkle like some of the others - maybe a bad cut? Anyway, I'm going to see if the store can bring in the D IF 2.53 and see how it sparkles. Then I'm going to make up my mind. So.. is the 2.32 cut better or the 2.52?

 

[reena]

Well, the VVS clarity grade wouldn't have had anything to do with the brilliance or physical beauty of those two stones vis a vis the IF stones you liked. You're probably right that it was the cut. You should probably try to get as much information as you can on the cut parameters for the Lucida (I saw your other post; I know Tiffany won't give it to you) before making a decision. If all else fails, though, just trust your eye.

Edited to add: I am noooo expert, and know nothing at all about the Lucida, but i DO see what you're saying about the D being small for its carat weight (it's a lot deeper and has a thicker girdle than the F). And again, I don't know, but I wouldn't think the F would be too shallow at 66% depth. But all of that's irrelevant if you don't like the way the F looks. Both diamonds are large--I would choose sparkle over a little added size. Perhaps, as you said, there's a third option that combines both.

 

[alexah]

My good friend had her FH buy her a 2.7ct F VS1 Lucida - she luved it under Tiffanys lighting but, outside, next to her friends ideal RB & a really well-cut princess, she confided that she was somewhat disppointed w her ring...

Pls make sure you check it out in all kinds of lighting & in comparison to other ideal cut stones so you're 100% that it's the be all-end all for you...

 

[moremoremore]

I am absolutely shocked at that light leakage. I knew that it woudln't be totally desireable but I really have to say that I'm shocked.

I agree with what you say Alexah.

Do yourself a flavor G Weldon, check out the God Old Gold website and look at the lightscope image of any jubilee. I know it's not exaclty like the lucida, but it's close .... but one thing is for sure, the jubilee will blow the pants off of the lucida...and I'm sure a 3 carat jubilee will be similar in price...I might even dare say cheaper. For that kind of request, I'm sure Mr. Horowitz will be in the mine diggin for the diamond rough himself lol

 

[moremoremore]

I know a J is not what you're looking for....but here is something to compare. But it's also 'ok' if it's the blue box you're looking for.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/jubilee__2_57ct_j_vs2.htm

 

[hoorray]

I don't know much about the specs of a Lucinda, but can see the the 2.32 is proportionally smaller due to the cut. I guess I would suggest you let your eyes be the final judge. Ask TIffany's to bring in as many stones in this size range in a E-F IF-VVS2 or VS1 range and compare them side by side. Obviously you like the look of one over others, so your eyes do differentiate. I would try to let go of the specs while doing this and just let it be visual, because in this range the cut is going to impact the looks much more than the slight color or clarity differences). Have them not tell you the color/clarity while you are looking. It's easy to be biased based on specs rather than looks)

As you narrow it down look as the stone(s) in a wide varitey of light, not just the special, fancy Tiffany's lighting. Look at them in outdoor light, typical office and indoor lighting, etc -- everything besides just the halogen brights!

 

[G Weldon]

I've looked at these stones at the window in the store... not just under the lights. I think a bunch of the stones look amazing in the lighting at the store. I have to be honest; I have to have the blue box, and unfortunately, everyone would blanch to know that I haven't looked at any stones there under $65,000..... I don't want to even tell you what the D IF stone costs but let's just say that I have to have to know that the diamond is amazing to pay the kind of money that Tif's is asking.

I'm still stunned that no one can give me the proper parameters for this shape. When talking about light leakage... what would be the best cut proportions for this stone?

 

[reena]

i think you should insist that the burden be on tiffany, which is attempting to sell you an $80k+ ring, to give you that information.

 

[G Weldon]

I think you're right... and I don't think that Tiffany will ever release that info. There is no reason for them not to tell me; they keep insisting that their cuts are all "great" -but that can't be true. Although I haven't confirmed this, I would bet money that they sell round diamonds that are less than ideal cuts, so of course they are selling Lucidas that aren't ideal cuts... right? I really wish I didn't like this Lucida, but I do.

 

[alexah]

Have you checked out the eye candy folder yet? There's so many beautiful designs there - maybe something will tickle your fancy?

LINK