crown angle -- is it a problem?

[Demelza]

I found the following parameters for a great looking stone on the Nice Ice website. The stone I am currently considering for an upgrade fits into every one of these categories EXCEPT the crown angle is 33.8. Will a few tenths of a degree make any difference in the appearance of the stone? The pavilion angle is 40.6. Even though I''ve seen this stone and it looks gorgeous in person, I am obsessing about the specs. The stone is an AGS 0 Ideal cut H&A. Thanks for the help!

Total Depth between 59 – 61.8% (only effects the diameter of the stone)
Table Diameter between 53 – 57% (least critical factor)
Crown Angle between 34.3 – 34.8 degrees
Pavilion Angle between 40.6 – 40.9 degrees
Girdle: prefer 0.7% thin up to 1.8% medium, faceted
Culet: GIA none or AGS pointed (same thing, different terms)
Polish: GIA Excellent / AGS Ideal (the highest from each lab)
Symmetry: GIA Excellent / AGS Ideal (the highest from each lab)

 

[strmrdr]

It would be nice for a pendant but not for a ring.
Its a shallow/shallow combo and they lack contrast and tilt brilliance.
I don''t like shallow crowns under 34.2 range in any combo but with a 40.6 when intended for a ring.. well yuck.

 

[Demelza]

This is why I''m so confused. I spent 2 hours with the stone looking at it in different lighting conditions and it is just gorgeous. There was nothing about it that didn''t seem as sparkly as my 1.5 (whose specs are closer to what you mentioned above). I know that seeing the stone is the most important consideration, but I don''t know how to account for the discrepancy between a piece of paper and my eyes.

 

[drkewl]

Demelza,
I have found that many pricescopers really like to 'split hairs' when it comes to scrutinizing a diamonds stats. A good thing to keep in mind is while the experts who work the diamonds daily or very often may be able to see slight differences, the common person will not, hence the best advice often is to use the stats as a guideline to eliminate POOR performers, then trust your eyes to make the final decision.

You seem to love the looks of this particular diamond... if you love it then get it! The small percentage of differences between this crown angle versus one in the mid 34s may be enough to converse about but not enough to make an incredible diffence. Just my humble opinion.

Another way of putting it: if you give people identical diamonds, but one with a crown aggle of 33.8 versus 34.6, mix them up, and ask them to pick out the difference.... i doubt most would be able to.

Best of luck!

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/7/2005 2:00:22 PM
Author: Demelza
This is why I''m so confused. I spent 2 hours with the stone looking at it in different lighting conditions and it is just gorgeous. There was nothing about it that didn''t seem as sparkly as my 1.5 (whose specs are closer to what you mentioned above). I know that seeing the stone is the most important consideration, but I don''t know how to account for the discrepancy between a piece of paper and my eyes.

Well if you have seen it and love it then there isnt anything else to say.
It could be that you prefere the look it provides.
If it speaks to you dont worry about it.

 

[Demelza]

Drkewl -- Thanks for your response. I guess that''s really what I''m needing to know: would there be an appreciable difference is this stone suddenly had a 34.4 crown angle with its 40.6 pavilion angle? Will the 33.8 crown angle impact the performance of the stone so much that it''s worth passing up even though all the other specs (and price) are right on? If it might, then it''s worth it to me to keep looking. If it''s simply a matter of splitting hairs, then maybe I should stop obsessing and focus on being excited.

Strmdr -- what do you think? is it just splitting hairs or will there be a real difference in performance about which I should be concerned?

I always thought that an AGS ideal cut H&A would almost necessarily be a good performer. Is this often not the case?

 

[strmrdr]

I think its a visible difference but havent seen enough of them to say 100% for sure.
But I know what Id be looking for so cant really say how much others would notice it.
A 34.4 with a 40.6 wouldnt be a combo id like much either.
34.4 with a 40.8 would be more like it.

Did you go to niceice to see it or did you have it sent out to you or an appraiser?

 

[Demelza]

The stone isn't from niceice; I was just looking at the info on their website to try to decipher the numbers on the stone. My current 1.5 has a 34.9 crown angle and a 40.9 pavilion angle. What do you think of those numbers?

I have had a graduate gemologist look at the stone and she thought the crown angle wasn't a problem. She said it was a beautiful stone and, at the time, I agreed. I hadn't yet looked into the numbers as thoroughly as I am now which is what is making me hesitate.

 

[Mara]

Dem personally I don''t like a 34.9 and 40.9 combo stone either. So I probably wouldn''t want your old stone.

My sweet spot is around a 34.7 with a 40.7 or similar. But my sweet spot may not be other people''s of course! It''s so personal.

But seriously girl, if you like this new stone with your eyes, DO NOT obsess upon the numbers. Or you will eventually talk yourself out of the stone and be unhappy if you do get it. Go with the feeling you had when you saw it, good or bad...!

 

[strmrdr]

34.9 and 40.9 can be very nice with the proper minor facet cutting.

I think my bottom line advice is that if you love it and it speaks to you then dont worry about it.
If your not sure then arrange to compare it to another diamond that isnt a shallow/shallow under a variety of lighting conditions paying attention to how it looks from an angle and under florescent lighting.

 

[Demelza]

oops, just realized my old stone is actually 34.9 and 40.7. Does that change things?

Yes, I know I need to rely on my eyes more than anything else. I''m just so indecisive. I want the best diamond I can possibly get and I guess I''m wanting confirmation that there is such a thing and this is it. But I guess one thing I''ve learned reading up on this is that no one agrees what exactly that is. I guess I should just try to let it go. I have compared this stone to another one that had steeper crown and pavilion angles and honestly didn''t see much differrence. Maybe I''m not very good at this, but they all look gorgeous and sparkly to me -- they were, after, all ideal cuts.

 

[moremoremore]

Strm- r u saying that the stone could look dark...or quite the opposite? I''m just a tad confused...thanks

 

[Mara]

Dem, you hit it on the head when you said it''s preference, its sooo true. I mean DBL loves his 60/60''s, some swear by shallow spreadier cuts, some just want the typical H&A SuperIdeal brand...some others have seen what a 40.8 or 40.9 pav angle looks like vs a 40.7 and have found their ''sweet spot'' that way. It''s sooo personal. I think that alot of it just comes with experience and seeing stones and finding out what YOUR eye likes.

 

[Kaleigh]

Demelza,
Maybe you need more time, I don''t know. You have seen this stone and compared it to another ideal cut and it still looked great. Maybe you need to see one more stone?? It looks great to me and think you will love it, but I''m not the one who is going to wear it. You need to be happy with it. HTH.

 

[Demelza]

Here''s my problem (if it is one): I don''t think I''m capable of seeing the differences you''re talking about. I''ve seen 4 stones total -- all of them were ideal cuts, the only "super ideal" is the one I''m considering (actually, does AGS O H&A make it a super ideal? I''m confused about that!). I saw them in and out of the store, lights on, lights off, actually looked at them under a desk and they all looked the same to me! What does that mean? Am I missing something? Would most people really notice a difference between a 40.7 crown angle and a 40.9? Gosh, I just don''t know anymore. I think I need to be committed to an insane asylum.

 

[Demelza]

ooops -- double post

 

[Mara]

Some people would and have. Others, not so much.

Brian from WF did tell me something and maybe this will help you out. I was asking him re: differences on Expert Selections that were made to be ACA''s but missed the boat somehow and the ACA line. The one stone I was looking at to me looked like an ACA in every way. But it didn''t make the cut. He said that what had knocked it out of the running was something that my unpracticed consumer eye would probably not pick up. But to an expert where they see stones daily on a numerous basis, it''s more obvious.

So really...an unpracticed consumer eye may not pick up small nuances. Other people will! But if you don''t, that''s BETTER in my opinion. Kind of like not being able to really pick up or see color. It opens the options up for you. It''s not quite so narrow of a window of opportunity or happiness. So run with it!

 

[drkewl]

Demelza, just buy it

 

[strmrdr]

Read the section on contrast brilliance

http://www.goodoldgold.com/the_isee2_project.htm

This is one of the areas that shallow/shallow stones fall short and what I mean when I say they look dark and lack contrast brilliance.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

dear Demelza, if you are under 30 and have excellent close up vision you may not like this stone because your head obstruction of light sources may cause the stone to go a little dark.

But if you are over 40 or need to hold the menu at arms length it may well be the right stone for you.

I believe (everyone else thinks I am mad) that slightly shallow stones perform better when they are dirty. I conducted an experiment that many regular PS''s and other people at the recent jCK show agreed with in the case of earrings.

But even with the data you PM''d me, we still would like ideal-scope and other info as the HCA results are not final.

 

[Demelza]

Hi Garry,

Thanks for adding to the thread.

Well, I'm 2 weeks shy of my 30th birthday and have excellent vision. I didn't notice, however, that the stone went dark in any lighting conditions. I guess what I'm wondering is whether these differences that you and others are referring to are so minor that it would take a real expert to detect them? Or would one have to compare the stone to another ideal cut stone with less shallow proportions in order to see the difference?

The good news, I suppose, is that diamonds spend most of their lives being fairly dirty -- so I'd be happy to have a stone that performs well when dirty!

ETA: I guess I should stop obsessing because this is all but a done deal. I'm hoping that much of my doubt will subside when I actually have the ring on my finger. Sorry, guys, to keep perseverating about this.

 

[Mara]

Dem when is that bad boy going to be set and back on your finger?! ~ I am dying for pictures here!!!

 

[Demelza]

Mara -- I''m hoping Signed Pieces will ship my rings back to my jeweler early this week which means maybe, possibly I could have the ring on my finger late this week??? I sure hope so because I don''t know if I can handle another weekend of waiting and wondering whether I''ve made the right decision. I had a bad dream the night before last that I finally got my ring back and the diamond was huge, but not in a good way. It didn''t sparkle and it was very difficult to balance on my finger. Finally, after what seemed like forever, I realized that it wasn''t a diamond after all, but.....a doorknob!!