Crazy me or a Red Flag?

[unclefunta]

Get ready for a silly question but I have to ask it...

Should I be concerned that my jeweler is unwilling to send the diamond I picked out to an independent appraiser?

The jeweler basically said that they didn''t want to go through with the purchase because they felt that I didn''t have enough trust in them. Actually, to use the jeweler''s exact words "just call your dogs off (refering to the independent appraiser) and we can follow through with this transaction." I''m I crazy or is that the weirdest thing ever? Don''t most people have their diamonds appraised by someone independent of the seller?

The really uncomfortable thing about the whole situation is that my father has been shopping with this jeweler for years. He''s spent so much money there that they actually send him flowers every year! My dad is the trusting sort. So I know he basically trusts these people. Should he still after my experience?

I don''t know... I do know that I won''t be buying my diamond from this place.

 

[Kaleigh]

You''re not crazy, that jeweler is!! Of course you should send the stone to an independent appraiser, not to do so would be crazy. UGHHHH

 

[strmrdr]

Let me guess the guy is in his late 50s early 60s?

Sounds like an old school jeweler with an attitude.

 

[unclefunta]

haha great guess on the age.
I guess it is an old school jeweler. They''ve been around for 50 years.

 

[MiniMouse]

It''s not a silly question and no, you are not crazy. The jeweler is crazy! A lot of insurance companies will not insure your diamond unless you have a professional appraisal done on it. You are wise to go elsewhere.

 

[windowshopper]

hey -if someone is comfortable with what they are selling they shouldnt care--they are defensive and are trying to make you guilty.........theyve probably sold your father sub-par stuff for years like most run-of-the-mill jewelers out there...........those type of places thrive on the family generated business. trust your gut

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/30/2005 12:14:23 AM
Author: windowshopper
hey -if someone is comfortable with what they are selling they shouldnt care--they are defensive and are trying to make you guilty.........theyve probably sold your father sub-par stuff for years like most run-of-the-mill jewelers out there...........those type of places thrive on the family generated business. trust your gut

While I agree that the best thing to do is to find someplace else to buy form if you dont get along it doesnt mean this guy isnt a decent honest person.
No most old school places arent going to sell the best cuts but neither are they usualy going to be selling total crap like some chains and the prices will be on the high side.
There are a bunch of them in my area that iv talked too from time to time they do business in a different world a world unclefunta's
Dad understands but younger people dont.
They just dont understand why 50 years of service dont mean much anymore and why a trade that was a respected business to be in back in the day is looked down on in a lot of ways.
A lot of them have a business there Dad started and they wanted to pass on to their kids but the kids arent intersted or capable so just like they have for the last 30 years they go into work every morning becuase its all they know.

Its wierd at times sort of like a time warp talking to people like that.

 

[valeria101]

How common is for jewelers to send out merchandise for third party investigation anyway?

Maybe the Pricescope folk do send diamond for inspection prior to purchase at appraisers they happen to know, but it doesn't sound like this is so popular. Otherwise it happens during some return period. Also, you are not shopping online, and there may be more reasons for appraisal about virtual transactions (it is a new thing, etc). I don't think there is less reason to have goods form local purchases appraised, but it seems to be so. All in all, second what Windowshopper says.

And regardless of everything, there must be other jewelers around who will do business the way you want it. Perhaps your father is a valued customer there, but I can only wonder how many there are on the shop's list.

It is not like you have to go there by family tradition.

 

[Dummy_for_Diamonds]

Hi,

The caveat is that I''m really new at this, but here''s my .02 based on my experience...

It comes down to trust, both when you go to a jeweler or an appraiser-- The jeweler has no control over which appraiser you go to, and if you end up choosing an appraiser who is not truly "independent", then that appraiser might have a real incentive to bash the diamond you choose and lead you to one of his vendors.

Not that the world is necessarily that nasty (and there are methods to protect yourself when choosing an appraiser, just like a jeweler), but I imagine it''s out there. So, while a bit blunt, your jeweler may not be way off base. That being said, it''s a big chunk of change, and I''d hope anyone I work with is sensitive to my jitters.

In any event, most of the places I''ve looked have some sort of "no questions asked" buyback period, and as mentioned above, that''s usually when you''d get it appraised and make a final decision. I''d be pretty surprised if B&M jewelers let appraisers on premises to criticize their inventory, or even more so if they''d send it to someone they didn''t know without full payment.

--Josh

P.S.
My experience with the online jewelers on this front has been very good-- probably because they don''t have store fronts, they''re really, really happy to send diamonds to mutually agreed upon appraisers (for the vendors I worked with, they just used the PS appraiser lists). I guess it shows you''re an interested customer, kind of like asking a B&M jeweler to take something out of the case, instead of just window shopping.

This can get mildly expensive for you-- some of the vendors have you pay shipping if you don''t choose their diamond, and you usually have to buy about 1 hr worth of appraiser time (but you get his/her opinion on the stones), but if you''ve narrowed it down, it''s probably a fraction of the cost of the diamond, and can buy you real peace of mind.

The appraiser I went to seemed very good. I had two stones shipped from online vendors. He looked at the stones "blind", having me open the packages and lay them out one at a time without looking at the stats. He then did his thing, looking at the stones and came up with his version of the stats, and we compared them together.

 

[RockDoc]

This is a Big Red Light


A diamond purchase isn''t an inexpensive investment, and many times it is a very emotional purchase.

Think of it along the same lines as buying a home or a car which also are significantly more expensive than buy girl scout cookies.

If you bought a home, would you not have a home inspector check it out for its condition? And would you not have a real estate appraiser review the purchase for being priced correctly???????

If you were buying a used car, would you not have an independent mechanic check the condition out or get one of those CARFAX type reports?

If the seller of a house wouldn''t permit you to have it checked out for providing you with the peace of mind that your purhcase was "proper" - I think most people would walk away from that scenario.

In the case of diamonds, having the purchase checked out is even more significant, because knowing all the little details of quality and having the advanced equipment that an really good credentialed appraiser has is really paramount to making a proper purchase that will not only provide you with assurance that the item is represented correctly, but also provide you with an opinion that the diamond is really of the quality you want, and priced fairly.

A gemological review is like the home inspector. The appraiser checks for its value and reasonableness of the pricing.

Too many places that will provide you with this, so no reason for you to be subjected to the "trust me" issue.

Perhaps your father should have the items he has previously purchased examined to see just what he got and what he was promised.

Rockdoc

 

[unclefunta]

Thanks for all the input. There were some great points made.

I guess the times are a changin''. With all the information now available on the internet, I think these B&M Jewelers will have to face fact that their customers are going to better informed. I bet I was just the first young buck, full of information, to enter this particular shop. I know that a lot of guys that follow me will be armed with information from the net and looking for the best value for their money.
They already lost my business to an internet company. Wonder how many more sales they will lose in the future before they change their sales tactics?

BTW... I just bought a great diamond, very similar (better cut, same shape, color and clarity) to the stone the B&M jeweler was offering, for $1200 under the B&M price.

I love the internet!

 

[princessv]

I''m a little late but I have to add my experience.

Originally, I was going to use my grandmother''s stone round brillant and turn it into a 3 stone. We went to a B&M that my mother insisted upon who went on and on about ''how difficult'' it is to find 2 matching stones. (Yeah right.) Finally found 2 matching stones graded by EGL. Being somewhat Pricescope educated, my FH paid extra despite the delay to have the stones graded by the GIA (we never really felt comfortable with this jeweler). The jeweler was upset said because the GIA takes 6 weeks to grade, it takes too long and they''d be losing money and he kicked up a big fuss about us ''not trusting them.'' So my mother being the trusting sort to this B&M told my FH to go ahead and pay for the stones and the setting. Long story short, 2 1/2 months after the stones came back graded from the GIA the jeweler was avoiding my FH. Because we were half way across the country and my FH was embarassed about the whole situation and didn''t want to involve my mother, he finally got in contact with the jeweler. Turns out the stones came back 2-3 grades lower than EGL. (I-J color and I1 inclusions)

Thankfully, we FINALLY got the money back and were able to pick out a different engagement ring from someone we trusted.

Moral of the story: if you feel like there is a red flag, don''t go with that particular jeweler.

 

[Modified Brilliant]

A gemologist/appraiser provides you with peace of mind at a very reasonable price. The last thing that we want to see is YOU the CONSUMER getting stuck with a diamond buying mistake. It''s costly, emotional and stressful. Sometimes, going to an appraiser is like going to your doctor for a check up. You know you should go but might be afraid about what the diagnosis might be. Have your diamond appraised by an independent appraiser for peace of mind.. and while you''re at it...isn''t it time for that dreaded annual physical?

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

 

[BeaudryBabe]

I would graciously thank him, and turn and run in the opposite direction as fast as possible.

Your the customer, he should be willing to accomodate YOU!

 

[unclefunta]

Now if I could only convince my father to reevaluate his relationship with these people....

 

[luckystar]

It looks like you got some sage advice from the pricescope community here. I felt a strong urge to chime in here on a slightly different topic.

I am all for using independant appraisors prior to making a purchase. However, reading many peoples experiances and sending 3 stones to appraisors I am a bit unsure about the practice.

Why is it every stone is great?
Why doesn't the appraisor say this stone is a dog go find another?
Why are the complements of the stone in such a way that they could be taken either way?

For example, my appraisor said something to the effect that my @#$% stone was among the best he has ever seen. Then I find out later he has never seen %^&* types of stones so the complement meant nothing.

I think if you sent two stones in they would probably pick the best. BUT I kinda think they are going to tell you what you want to hear simply to keep you from cancelling the sell.

Please chime in and show me I am mistaken in my assumptions. I want to be wrong.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 12/2/2005 2:51:22 PM
Author: luckystar
I am all for using independant appraisors prior to making a purchase. However, reading many peoples experiances and sending 3 stones to appraisors I am a bit unsure about the practice.

Why is it every stone is great?
Why doesn''t the appraisor say this stone is a dog go find another?
Why are the complements of the stone in such a way that they could be taken either way?

I kinda think they are going to tell you what you want to hear simply to keep you from cancelling the sell.

This is an interesting point! I almost thing that if you''re smart enough/done enough research/know enough/care enough to send stones to an independent appraiser (which means, say 10% of general population?) ... chances are you''ve ALSO done a pretty fair job FINDING NICE STONES. You''re just kinda double checking yourself, or double checking that the stone IS what it''s represented to be. Make sense? When I took my e-ring for appraisal I wasn''t asking "is this nice" or "should I have bought it" ... I was asking "How much is fair retail replacement" (for insurence purposes) ... and, "Is this the stone that matches this GIA report". JMHO.

 

[mepearl53]

Date: 11/29/2005 11:55:26 PM
Author: strmrdr
Let me guess the guy is in his late 50s early 60s?

Sounds like an old school jeweler with an attitude.

Hay Strmrdr! I''m in that age category

But, I agree there are a lot of very defensive jewelers out there. All of the trade magazines write about how the internet is growing everyday and it scares them. For a older younger guy like myself I understand their concern but that is no way to treat a potential customer. Just a laugh for how young my staff has gotten. My webmaster just told one of our photoshop guys to pull his pants up. He wears those baggy ones. The kid replied, "like to my waist" bout fell out of my chair!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 12/2/2005 2:51:22 PM
Author: luckystar
It looks like you got some sage advice from the pricescope community here. I felt a strong urge to chime in here on a slightly different topic.

I am all for using independant appraisors prior to making a purchase. However, reading many peoples experiances and sending 3 stones to appraisors I am a bit unsure about the practice.

Why is it every stone is great?
Why doesn''t the appraisor say this stone is a dog go find another?
Why are the complements of the stone in such a way that they could be taken either way?

For example, my appraisor said something to the effect that my @#$% stone was among the best he has ever seen. Then I find out later he has never seen %^&* types of stones so the complement meant nothing.

I think if you sent two stones in they would probably pick the best. BUT I kinda think they are going to tell you what you want to hear simply to keep you from cancelling the sell.

Please chime in and show me I am mistaken in my assumptions. I want to be wrong.

i ask same the Qs in the pass and never got a REAL answer from any appraisers.

 

[luckystar]

I think I will repost this then in it''s own thread to see what responses we get then

 

[TLS]

luckystar that is an interesting question. The first diamond I bought was taken to a trusted independant appraiser. He did essentially tell me honestly that the diamond was not what I was hoping for and very accurately told me what grade level it would fall into cut wise, etc. He didn''t say the diamond was trash, just said it would not fit the parameters of an ideal cut and explained at the time all the reasons why it would not and what it would fall under.

Based on his information I returned the diamond and bought off the internet instead. It just seemed like some of the internet dealers did a better job of providing the information I wanted on the cut of the stone, whereas the B & M''s would not.

I am really appalled that a jeweler in this day and age wouldn''t have gotten the request before to take a diamond to an independant appraiser. These jewelers need to get with the times if they want to compete. If they have nothing to hide this shouldn''t be an issue. If they want to verify that the appraiser is truly independant and not just another jewleler trying to lure you away then I kind of understand that...but at the same time I also kind of feel that you as the customer should really be able to take the stone to any appraiser you want??