Cheap diamonds, Shenoa, clarity enhanced. HELP!!

[markipooo]

I am new to the forum, but I have a couple of questions. The first is about Shenoa & co on ebay. I have reviewed this site and the last posting is from last year. There are a couple of negative postings that are repeated multiple times. I am wondering if anyone out there has had a positive/semi-positive experience with them and has gotten anything close to what they post on ebay? They do have some positive feedback. Just wondering because I am looking for a large stone 2.5-3.5 carats that is near colorless and eye clean, like everyone else I want a good deal. Any suggestions? I was also thinking about a clarity enhanced stone if there is one that is significantly cheaper (ie 40%) than a non-enhanced stone. ANy suggestions? The enhanced stones come with a ggl cert, are they trust worthy????
Thanks, Mark
PS I am in the < $15,000 price range. The cheaper the better!

 

[Rank Amateur]

Why buy clarity enhanced?

If all you want is a big stone buy a CZ.

 

[blueroses]

I have to agree--if you''re going to go for clarity-enhanced, then why bother with an actual diamond? Just my .02. I''ve also heard nothing but marginal to bad things about Shenoa both here and elsewhere.

Just running a quick search, the only thing even close to your criteria I found were stones in the 13-14k range, but had to drop color to a J, and weight was no larger than 2.59carats.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 3/15/2005 5:53:21 PM
Author:markipooo
I am new to the forum, but I have a couple of questions. The first is about Shenoa & co on ebay. I have reviewed this site and the last posting is from last year. There are a couple of negative postings that are repeated multiple times. I am wondering if anyone out there has had a positive/semi-positive experience with them and has gotten anything close to what they post on ebay? They do have some positive feedback. Just wondering because I am looking for a large stone 2.5-3.5 carats that is near colorless and eye clean, like everyone else I want a good deal. Any suggestions? I was also thinking about a clarity enhanced stone if there is one that is significantly cheaper (ie 40%) than a non-enhanced stone. ANy suggestions? The enhanced stones come with a ggl cert, are they trust worthy????
Thanks, Mark
PS I am in the < $15,000 price range. The cheaper the better!

you have a big budget,why spend the 15k on enhanced stones?

 

[Kaleigh]

15K is a very nice budget indeed. You should stay away from ebay IMHO, too many horror stories.

 

[elepri]

Did you do a search on clarity enhanced diamonds? I remember reading that the enhancement might not last and the diamond might get fractured in the future. A clarity enhanced diamond is just a very low quality stone. With your budget, you can get a really nice size stone that''s not clarity enhanced and not from a sketchy ebay seller.

 

[snow_happy]

Oh Oh Oh !

Does anyone know if Stephan's stone has sold yet? Wink?

There is a 3ct diamond...GORGEOUS... for 15k.

Perfect!!!

Here is the link to the Pricescope thread with the picture LINK

 

[icekid]

with a budget of 15 grand, i would not be going anywhere near clarity enhanced stones. from what i hear, the enhancement doesn''t last. who wants THAT?!?! then you have a stone that looks like crap, and was still really expensive!

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/16/2005 7:59:41 AM
Author: icekid

from what i hear, the enhancement doesn't last.

Where is this piece of news comming from ?

I don't know what enhancement does Shenoa. Also, in general, "clarity enhancement" does not mean the resulting stone is "eye clean" - just cleaner than before the enhancement. True enough, the treatement may not be applied to high quality diamonds to begin with and not many do end up wonderful afterwards. However, single large inclusions are very effectively "wiped out" by this clarity enhancement thing ( laser drilling, bleaching and filler - as far as I know).

The filler may not be everlasting (what is) and definitely has to be protected from exposure to extreme heat - as in "don't bake your ring" !

During usual jewelry making and repair this is an important detail to take into account and warn your jeweler about.

Let's say you did "bake" the treatemed diamond... then all that's left to do is return the stone to the right factory (via the seller or not) and apply the treatment again. I don't know about Shenoa, but other sellers of clarity enhanced diamonds guarantee the treatment and will reapply it "no questions asked".

Sure enough, durability and overall quality (cut included) is an issue to look out for shopping for clarity enhanced diamonds. But it is not the treatment that's to blame - the average material that it is applied to. You can definitely end up with a totally eye clean, nicely cut former I1 diamond that's now a stunner. Given the budget, the stone better be white (G-H ?), close to eye clean, nicely cut and above 2 carats

Among the sellers who have built a reputation around here, Good Old Gold, Nice Ice and Diamonds by Lauren carry these.

There isn't allot of talk about clarity enhanced diamonds on pricescope. And for 15k it seems likely that most would think 1.5cts rather than 3cts.

But... there's nothing wrong, IMO, with an educated hunt for clarity enhanced goods.

It's like going for I1 or lower clarity that doesn't actually show.

About the cert.

GIA and AGS do not grade clarity enhanced diamonds, so a more "exotic" lab name will have to do. The intermediation of an appraiser would probably be a good idea to confirm the opinion of the exotic lab. Since that would have been a farely included stone to begin with, I would also ask the appraiser to asess the durability of the piece. Chances are there's nothing to worry about, but one better ask. Even some untreated diamonds are fragile and not old with reasonable warning (e.g. stones with very thin girdles, steep or flat crowns... large inclusions next to girdle - who knows what else).


You might want to visit a couple of websites for refference:

Yehuda Diamonds of course LINK (look up their warranty and database of diamonds - pictures shown & all).

NiceIce LINK (one funny and friendly page on enhanced diamonds - the seller has a long track record here)

same topic presented by GoodOldGold

Diamonds by Lauren (mentioned above) does not sell diamonds treated with filler, but there's is one that was just laser drilled in their current inventory. It happend to be a charmigly cut 2.5 carat radiant. Take a look HERE. For once, it is not 15k (just about 9k). In general, prices should be comparable to what these diamonds would cost without the treatement - and that is yet another point where an appraiser should help allot.


Ok. I hope some of the ranting makes sense. If you want a white 3 carat diamond for 15k - why on Earth not !

 

[valeria101]

(ctd).

Here's the diamond at DBL - the drilled spot shows at an angle. I would bet it would show even less if the laser hole would be filled. Worth asking, at least.

I don't know what shape you are after...

If you do search the Yehuda site, the clarity they mention appears to reffer to the look of the atone after the enhancement. In other words, what they call "si3" is a visibly included stone that looked even worse before the treatment. Those stones called "VS" or "SI" have a better chance to look clean as the untreated counterparts of the grades. And come with magnified pictures as well.

For example, in this SI2 (EGL graded) oval, the clarity enhancement obviously didn't wipe out all the specs. It would have been downright impossible:

Two "SI2" and "Si1" princesses look quite a bit more promissing clarity-wise although the proportions of the cut are not cherry ( larger tables and thicker girdle than the "purist" choice):

Anyway, I am just trying to show that shopping for a clarity enhanced diamonds is more complicated than shopping for a non-enhanced piece. There are just more factors to look out for and the absence of certification (or a large lab's signature) for color does not make things easier. I would not order one of these unless I really trusted the opinion of the seller. These stones are no bargain, and I see no reason why the quality stakes for cut & all would be lowered. Clarity enhanced diamonds are supposed to be all about good looks, not rock bottom price (whch is not quite the case, let's face it).

It seems to be a bit "understood" that buyers of cc stones would be less demanding, so cut might not be so great and service well... whatever. Perhaps less glamorous than expected for a 15 k not treated stone. For those 15k, it's red carpet treatemnt !

Gimme' a break!

Just ask for the perfect stone, and chances are you will get a very nice diamond.

IMO, at least

 

[skimmy]

hi,

i noticed that you''re in ny, ny...shenoa and co has a b&m store on 47th street and i had a very pleasant experience with kerry ryan - even though i didn''t end up buying from them. i read some where that when dealing with them in person you should try to get them to match their ebay prices...assuming you still want to go that route.

also i didn''t find clarity-enhanced diamonds to be significantly cheaper than the real deal...(i was looking for large earrings and didn''t have the patience to wait to save up enough to buy what i wanted.) in the end, i sacrificed a little size to go the regular route, esp since there was no noticable difference in price.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/16/2005 9:19:41 AM
Author: skimmy

also i didn''t find clarity-enhanced diamonds to be significantly cheaper than the real deal...
[...] there was no noticable difference in price.

Good point. Properly graded, these diamonds are no cheaper than the untreated ones with similar low clarity grades - just supposed to look better.

Since the clarity enhanced ones don''t come with top shelf lab report most of the time, the aparently cheap ones may well be missgraded for color as well. Or discounted for some other flaws (poor cut, for example).

Of the major labs, EGL does grade clarity enhanced diamonds and EGL USA reports have good reputation. There doesn''t see to be that many such stones with EGL reports though

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Hi Everyone!
Ana- thanks for posting the photos of our stone.
It brings up a very good point.
Laser drilling Versus Yehuda ( or Silicon) Filling

FIlled Stones
Personally, I do not like diamonds with anything added. I have seen filled stones that were nearly undetectable- which can be a problem (If a dealer has a filled stone and it looks so good they do not disclose)
In many cases the plastic injected into the diamodn leaves an oily type of look which obscures the color of the diamond.
I''m with those who stay away from filled diamonds


Drilled Stones
In many respects the laser simply adds another facet- altough it is a "tubular" facet.
This "channel" is easily visible- therefore a stone with a laser drill is self evident to a trained eye.

The channel the laser drills is like a "well" drilled into a black carbon spot.
After the channel is drilled, the diamond is boiled in acid ( sound like fun???) which bleaches the black into a white sopt- many times less visible.

BTW- most diamonds are boiled in acid after the process of cutting.


GIA won''t issue reports on filled stones- while they do accept and grade diamonds that have been drilled with a laser. As far as ANY other labs- they are simply not accepted by the trade. EGL and IGI are on the fringe of acceptability- any other report is never even discussed in the wholesale diamond business.
If diamond dealers trust only GIA, why should consumers feel differently?

 

[Giangi]

If I had $15K to spend on a 3cts diamond, I would buy Stephan''s stone in a heartbeat... It''s one of the most beautiful stones I have ever seen.

 

[Dancing Fire]

buying a clarity enhanced diamond it''s like buying a car with a SALVAGE title....forget it.

 

[markipooo]

I would like to thank everyone for their input. I am going to stay away from a clarity enhanced stone and Shenoa. I am going to try and find a near colorless to the eye 3 ct round stone that is eye clean or has an inclusion that can be blocked by a prong. I saw wink''s stone and it looks good, but I was concerned about the "M" color? My budget is $15,000. Is there any hope? Or do I have to down size? Thanks, Mark

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Mark- it''s possible to find a 3 ct round for $15,000- but it''s going to have to be
1) Badly cut- This is a reall NO NO
2) L/Si1 M/VS1 or a stone in that range
3) I1 or worse in terms of imperfection
4) filled stones

To me downsizing is the way to go unless you like the softer white stones

Best of luck!

 

[markipooo]

I was considering a well cut stone that is colorless/near colorless f-h, 3 carats round but maybe I1 in clarity. A real GIA I1, hopefully the inclusion would be hidden by a prong. Is this realistic? Or is $15,000 just not enough? Thanks,

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 3/21/2005 5:36:28 PM
Author: markipooo
I was considering a well cut stone that is colorless/near colorless f-h, 3 carats round but maybe I1 in clarity. A real GIA I1, hopefully the inclusion would be hidden by a prong. Is this realistic? Or is $15,000 just not enough? Thanks,

i think the odds are slim and none on finding a I1 3 ct stone that is eye clean. i hate to say it but, you want a new york steak with a hamburger budget. 15k will buy you a very nice stone but,not a F-H 3 ct.......Wink just sold a very nice(branded) M VS 3 ct,he was asking 15k.

 

[onedrop]

Markipoo:

It''s obvious from the previous posts that you probably will not get the type of stone you desire with the budget that you set. A good start may be to try the search engine at the top of this page under "Price" and then search by cut. You will see the budget you''d need to have for the parameters you''ve set for the stone.

Good luck!!

 

[cinnabar]

Date: 3/21/2005 7:40:31 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 3/21/2005 5:36:28 PM

Author: markipooo

I was considering a well cut stone that is colorless/near colorless f-h, 3 carats round but maybe I1 in clarity. A real GIA I1, hopefully the inclusion would be hidden by a prong. Is this realistic? Or is $15,000 just not enough? Thanks,

i think odds are slim to none on finding a I1 3 ct stone that is eye clean.  i hate to say it but, you want to order a new york steak with a hamburger budget. 15k will buy you a very nice stone but,not a F-H 3 ct.......Wink just sold a very nice(branded) M VS 3 ct,he was asking 15k.

The I1 stones frequently seen on eBay are frozen monkey spit.  I''d be surprised if I1s had "an" inclusion rather than a whole shoal of them. 

 

[diamondsbylauren]

It''s important to remember that all kinds of sellers claim grades withouth GIA reports to back them up.
So, if 2 sellers both claim to have I1 diamonds, one might be far superior to the other.
I1 is the typr of term which many dealers use as a "blanket"- for any stone worse than SI2- even if it''s I3

GIA has established the grade I1- which is in itself a rather broad grade- but still, if sellers were aware and respected GIA''s grade it would make for a much more level I1 playing field.
Of course this ain''t gonna happen any time soon.


PS- this happens quite often in many markets- not only eBay.

 

[markipooo]

Thanks for the help guys. I found a stone(on pricescope) that is AGS certified 3.19 carat round k color with very strong flouresence and SI1. It is a little above my budget, but I am concerned that this might be too yellow. Do you guys think that flourescence can whiten up K color stone? This is my last attempt at a 3 carat stone, there are some other 3 ct stones that are k and gia certified around $15,000. Thanks, Mark

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/22/2005 6:30:40 PM
Author: markipooo

AGS certified 3.19 carat round k color with very strong flouresence and SI1.
It is a little above my budget, but I am concerned that this might be too yellow. Do you guys think that flourescence can whiten up K color stone?

Fluorescence turns on/off depending on whether the light available has a strong enough ultraviolet component. "Very strong" fluorescence start having some chance to make the stone hazy when "turned on".

If this color grade looks tinted ot not to you remains to be seen, and you are the only one to judge that. There were a few diamonds like that (Stephan, SevensOne...). It really comes down to your decision and the looks of the particular stone once set.

Any chance to see this one during the return period ?

If anything, 2.5 carats would not make much of a compromise - the size difference should not be all that much and there just might be the right I-SI2 handy just in case the piece you mention somehow doesn''t cut it.

Just a thought, as usual

 

[blodthecat]

Hi Mark,

first of all, i am relieved to hear that you are going to stay away from enhanced diamonds....phew!

Secondly, i bought a diamond solitaire from Shenoa two years ago (before i found pricescope). It was a solitaire with two side bagettes. the spec was Vs1, colour I.

I live in the UK, and when the ring arrived, it looked ok to me. However some months later i had it appraised. it was actually I2 and L/M in colour. When i compared it to others rings in the shops it looked dull and cheap. but then again, i probably got exactly what i paid for. I have since done my homework, and used pricescope to find myself a beautiful LEO diamond.

So considering you have a huge budget to work with, I would stay away from Ebay and Shenoa too for that matter.

As for the Shenoa diamond that i originally bought...what do you think happened to that ?????

Sold it on Ebay of course....(but lost quite a bit of money on it) Oh well....live and learn i guess!

I hope we get to see some pictures when you finally make your purchase..

best wishes dyanne

 

[valeria101]

.

 

[Lorelei]

I wonder with the price increases and the supply of larger diamonds beginning to dwindle that C.E. diamonds will become more popular. If the prices of the larger diamonds really skyrocket I suppose these MIGHT be an option if well cut of course and the price was very attractive

 

[blodthecat]

Yep...I understand the point Lorelei is making. But from an investment point of view, a good quality (natural) well cut diamond will never lose its value or go out of fashion.

A brillant diamond in a classic setting is absolutely timeless!

dyanne

 

[valeria101]

Date: 12/1/2005 7:06:55 AM
Author: blodthecat


Yep...I understand the point Lorelei is making. But from an investment point of view, a good quality (natural) well cut diamond will never lose its value


until you try to sell it...

It may be that these are an even harder sell, but... neither sounds like 'investment' to me. Just a smaller or larger gash in the wallet.


Putting the good part first:

These are still a step up from synthetics to me (and white synthetics are not going to be there). If fracture filled ruby and emeralds are palatable, these guys are in the same league - whatever that is.

I haven't tried in person, but the sight of two diamonds perfectly cut, one twice the weight and both the same price would make quite a puzzle.

Perhaps I would not consider fracture filled diamonds a treasure, but they sure are 'bling'. The same I1 that are acceptable for earrings and pendants on this thread, only made to look better by a temporary treatment (the filler is removable - if anyone wanted that). On 1 carat or so perhaps not many would insist on cosmetic diamond treatments, but towards 3 cts, I would think so. And only relatively few large stones would benefit allot from fracture filling - large inclusions can be treated, myriads of small ones no and usually each diamond has both

The bad part... these are diamonds that have been tampered with.


Do you guys find they'd be appropriate in any case?

PS: I know this forum is not the place for discussing synthetics (the Shopping forum is). Keeping to post on it, I counted on the thread having survived already without being moved away.

 

[diamondlil]

Date: 3/22/2005 6:30:40 PM
Author: markipooo
Thanks for the help guys. I found a stone(on pricescope) that is AGS certified 3.19 carat round k color with very strong flouresence and SI1. It is a little above my budget, but I am concerned that this might be too yellow. Do you guys think that flourescence can whiten up K color stone? This is my last attempt at a 3 carat stone, there are some other 3 ct stones that are k and gia certified around $15,000. Thanks, Mark

That stone may be worth a look. No way to know if the K will bother you unless you see it with your own eyes. I personally have seen K stones that look very white and some not. The strong fluorescence could be a plus, but with it being very strong, you need to be a little cautious, but I would not rule it out. Personally I like fluorescent stones, but the words "very strong" would warrant a looksie.

If you are concerned about the K color, why not drop down is size just a tad? Just under 3 ct will not look significantly different without direct comparison to a larger stone, and if you can track down a nearly eye-clean SI2, that could do the trick. You may want to contact a few vendors and tell them exactly what you are looking for and have them track it down for you. Do you have a date deadline?