Can we discuss cat nutrition and new book, 'Your Cat, Simple New Secrets to a Longer, Stronger Life?

[Lynn B]

OK, I got this book recently and just finished reading it.

Here are a few blurbs (below), copied and pasted from the following websites:

http://www.all-about-cats.com/your_cat.htm
http://cats.about.com/cs/catfood/a/canned_food.htm
http://cats.about.com/cs/catfood/a/tipsforchoosing.htm

This: In this controversial new book, dedicated veterinarian Elizabeth Hodgkins, DVM, raises the alarm regarding the serious flaws in the commercial diets we feed our cats and the nutritional diseases that result. She also explains everything cat owners need to know including kitten-rearing, the adult cat’s middle years, and how to care for the geriatric cat. The very latest treatment options for cat diseases are explained, and sections on litter box problems; parasites; obesity; feline diabetes; how to read a pet food label; and many more important issues are included.

And this: Today, most cat owners believe there is only one way to nourish their pets. That one way is an exclusive diet of commercially processed canned and dry cat foods. Unfortunately, many of these diets are actually poor alternatives to fresh, carnivore-friendly diets that the cat naturally requires. The fallacy that only commercial foods will support health in our cats is, in fact, little more than a remarkably successful marketing ploy by the companies who make the foods that owners believe are the best and only way to care for our cats properly.

And this: As recently as 25 years ago, there were few commercial cat food products and most pet cats still lived almost entirely on prey they captured on their own supplemented by human table foods, usually some type of meat. Only once cats began to be pets underfoot in the homes of their owners did commercially prepared, highly processed foods become a staple of the housecat’s diet. Today, unfortunately, these packaged foods are in most cases the exclusive diet of our cats.

Even though they are popular because of their convenience, these foods are really little more than the equivalent of convenience foods we humans eat. Like our own boxed, bagged, or fast-food type foods, commercial cat foods lack the freshness and nutrient quality of the cat’s natural meat-based wild diet and, in the case of all dry foods, are full of highly processed cereals and sugary vegetables (like potatoes) which are extremely poor quality ingredients for the obligatory carnivore. When we feed these foods as our cats’ exclusive diets, we subject them to health-robbing malnutrition.

She discourages ALL dry food and a lot of canned foods, and really makes a compelling case for a raw diet.

Has anyone else read her book? What did you think of the nutrition calculations explained on pages 261-265? I have often wondered what the numbers after crude protein, crude fat, crude fiber, moisture, ash, etc., really meant. Did anyone else figure out their cat’s food? I did all of Boo’s and was quite surprised (and not happily so!)

 

[AmberGretchen]

Lynn, I''ve not read this particular book, but I''ve read a lot of similarly-themed literature online and in print, and I think that included some stuff by this same person.

I''m kind of torn about the whole raw feeding thing. On the one hand, I see the argument that whole prey is the cat''s "natural" diet, and certainly we have anecdotal evidence that people do better on a whole foods diet, which is closer to our "natural" diet, so it stands to reason maybe cats would as well.

On the other hand, there''s no compelling evidence to suggest that cats used to live longer when they had that "natural" diet, or that they were healthier. And I don''t think you could really get that evidence because cats were exposed to lots more dangers back then if they were eating only prey, because that means they were allowed outdoors, and outdoors did (and still does) have lots of hazards for kitties.

Also, I had a long discussion with my vet about this last time I went in. She is pretty young, but really into cat nutrition and staying up on the latest literature about cat health, etc...and she seemed to think that feeding a "high quality" dry food diet was just fine if your cats did well on it. By high quality, she was talking about things that cats would eat in the wild, just processed into a dry food. This sort of makes sense to me as there is evidence to suggest that in certain forms dried and/or frozen fruits and veggies can retain much of their nutritional value, so it makes sense to me that it might be the same with cat food, as long as the ingredients going in to begin with are the right ones and of reasonably good quality.

But overall I''m just not sure. For now we''re still feeding Innova in our house because the kitties love it, and are in excellent health on it (though our two girls could stand to lose a tiny bit of weight). But eyes, coats, teeth, everything - the vet is very pleased with how healthy they are when we go in for our checkups and they seem happy, so that''s really the bottom line for me.

Anyway, I know that wasn''t really an answer but I think there isn''t necessarily a good answer here - I''ve seen compelling arguments either way, and I''m not totally sure what I believe. I think until further, high quality studies are done, its unlikely that we will have a definitive answer.

 

[LAJennifer]

I hope some of our PS vets chime in.

 

[Lynn B]

Thanks for your replies!

AG, as always, thank you for your valued input. xoxox! I''m in the same camp as you and I, too, have read other books, but honestly, this one is just ringing a little different with me. I''m not saying that I necessarily agree with everything she says... but she does make some very compelling points, some of which I personally had never read or known before.

One interesting thing that she does in the book is explain how to calculate (from the analysis panel) the *real* amount of protein and total carbs in any cat food, and she even tells a way to calculate both wet and dry foods to get a "dry matter basis" (which is consistent between the two types of food) so you really can compare "apples to apples". Have any of you ever heard of (or done) this?

It''s BEDTIME here

, but I will check back tomorrow... and if anyone is interested, I will be happy to post more about what she says in that regard, and also my own calculations from some of Boo''s foods, including Innova, EVO, Wellness (wet and dry), among others.

 

[deegee]

Gosh - I need to read something. Lately it seems like all I''m doing is scrubbing cat puke out of the carpets. I have 3 cats, ages 15, 14 & 12, and they are sure starting to have problems. We feed them dry food for old kitties which was recomended by the vet. It''s not working and their belly problems seem to be getting worse. 2 kitties have gotten skinny, and the other is so fat she can barely walk - even though we portion her food. I''m getting no results from the vet and I worry about my babies.

 

[bee*]

We were taught the same as AG. One of our lecturers is really into small animal nutrition and he advised us that staying on a high quality food is as good as being on a "raw" diet. Look at the ingredients on your cats food and make sure that the first lot of ingredients are meats and make sure that the percentage is quite high compared to the rest of the food stuffs that they''ve put in the food.

 

[bee*]

Date: 9/4/2008 11:45:13 PM
Author: deegee
Gosh - I need to read something. Lately it seems like all I''m doing is scrubbing cat puke out of the carpets. I have 3 cats, ages 15, 14 & 12, and they are sure starting to have problems. We feed them dry food for old kitties which was recomended by the vet. It''s not working and their belly problems seem to be getting worse. 2 kitties have gotten skinny, and the other is so fat she can barely walk - even though we portion her food. I''m getting no results from the vet and I worry about my babies.

If your cats aren''t doing great on the food that your vet has recommended then I''d switch it. I''m studying veterinary in college and I work in a vets so I know that the vets get discounts etc for selling a brand of food so that''s why a lot of them recommend particular brands. They can be great foods but if they''re not working for your kitties than switch. Innova tends to be quite a good food. On the other hand, have you had bloods or anything ran just to make sure that your kitties are in great condition? If the problems are only starting now and if they''ve been on that food for a while, I''d probably get them checked out. If you''re not happy with your vet, I''d start locating a new one.

 

[Lynn B]

OK, finally got some time to post again. This will probably be long, so try not to let your eyes glaze over!!!

Dr. Hodgkins discourages the feeding of dry food. She much prefers specially selected canned food, and her strongest recommendation is for a raw diet (and specifically Feline''s Pride).

When purchasing cat food, obviously understanding the labels is critical. Despite what the advertisements for a product may say, or how compelling a product may *look*, the “truth” is in the ingredient list.

The rules of pet food labeling call for the manufacturer to list some basic nutrient percentages on the label. A “typical” canned food label may have a guaranteed analysis that looks like this:

Crude protein: Min. 9.5%
Crude fat: Min. 5.0%
Crude fiber : Max 0.8%
Moisture: Max 75%
Ash: Max 2.0%

But there is no listing for carbohydrates, which a very important consideration when choosing cat food. But Dr. Hodgkins explains that there is an easy way to find out approximately how much carbohydrate is in such a food. Simply add all of the listings from protein through ash only (not any other listed ingredients) together.

So in the sample case above, we would add 9.5% + 5.0% + 0.8% + 75% + 2% for a total of 92.3%. Then subtract this from 100 to get the remainder, which is carbohydrate. She says not to worry about the fact that these are “minimums” and “maximums”, it will still get us very close to the true carb number, thus allowing comparisons between foods in a way that is fair and consistent.

She uses the term “dry matter basis” (DMB) which means the amount of a particular ingredient or nutrient, expressed as a percentage of the total in the can or bag, if the moisture of the food is removed. She says that this is a very important concept because it allows comparison of dry and canned foods, with their very different moisture content, in a fair way; allowing the pet food shopper to compare “apples to apples”.

Dry kibble has about 10% moisture; this means that the rest of the ingredients compose 90% of the food. So to calculate the DMB of a dry food, for example, you have to divide it by .9 (the mathematical equivalent of 90%). So if the protein listed on the label is 25%, you must divide that by .9 to get 27.8% protein on a DMB.

Canned, pouched and homemade wet foods have about 75% moisture, the rest of the ingredients compose 25% of the food. To remove the moisture and reduce the contents to only the dry matter that is in the food, we must perform the same calculation. Only this time we divide it by .25 (the mathematical equivalent of 25%). So if a canned food says “10% protein”, we divide that 10% by .25 to get 40% protein on a DMB.

These calculations can be performed on ALL the nutrients listed on the label.

So that’s why dry foods may *look like* (on the label) that they have more protein than canned, but if you do the calculation, bringing both products down to basic DMB, it becomes apparent which product actually has the MOST protein (and it is usually NOT dry food).

This is all very important, because as we know, our cats are obligate carnivores. She says that studies were done to determine the energy composition of small mammal prey (the kind that cats in the wild would typically consume) and that such prey generally contains about 55% dry matter protein; about 35% dry matter fat; and less than 2% carbohydrate. Obviously, most commercial foods are not even remotely similar to the natural foods of cats.

She recommends looking for foods with high protein (ideally greater than 40% DMB); 25-35% fat (DMB); and less than 10% carbs (DMB).

Soooooooo, with all of this information in mind, I went to work. And I could not find a SINGLE food of Boo''s that meets all of her suggested guidelines in all categories, although some did come fairly close.

Here is an analysis of some of Boo’s foods (all numbers refer to calculated DMB):

EVO 95% Duck (canned):
30% protein; 14% carbs; 40% fat
EVO 95% Chicken and Turkey (canned):
36% protein; 8% carbs; 40% fat
EVO 95% Venison (canned):
40% protein; 4% carbs; 40% fat
EVO 95% Beef (canned):
36% protein; 12% carbs; 36% fat
WELLNESS Turkey and Salmon (canned):
40% protein; 14.8% carbs; 24% fat
MERRICK Surf & Turf (canned):
40% protein; 22.8% carbs; 12% fat
BEFORE GRAIN Turkey (canned):
40% protein; 15.2% carbs; 36% fat
EVO (dry):
56.1% protein; 21.1% carbs; 24.7% fat
INNOVA (dry):
40% protein; 28.3% carbs; 22.2% fat
WELLNESS KITTEN (dry):
40% protein; 28.3% carbs; 20% fat
WELLNESS CORE (dry):
55% protein; 20% carbs; 20% fat
FELIDAE (dry):
35.5% protein; 40.5% carbs; 22.2% fat
ORIJEN (dry)
50% protein; 25.5% carbs, 22.2 fat

And of course, all this is only PART of the puzzle. The actual ingredient list is crucial, too. As obligate carnivores, our cats need MEAT to be healthy, strong, and to grow and repair. In the wild, cats do not consume grains, fillers, additives. She strongly recommends avoiding ingredients in commercial foods that are unnatural for a cat’s diet, such as cornmeal, corn grits, corn flour, rice flour, potatoes, sweet potatoes, carrots, apples, berries and the like.

Regarding ingredient lists, two points that I thought were quite interesting are below. Quoted from page 263:

“The rules of pet food labeling require that ingredients be listed by decreasing weight, or predominance, in the food. For example, if a food has the following ingredients: “water, beef, liver, meat by-products, corn grits, corn flour, corn gluten meal, chicken fat, vitamins and minerals,” we know that water is the most predominant ingredient in the food, with beef, liver, etc., following in decreasing amounts. This particular label illustrates one of the tricks employed by companies to disguise the actual amount of a certain class of ingredients. In this case, corn grits, corn flour, and corn gluten meal, although basically the same ingredient, have been separated into components by weight to allow corn to be listed behind the meat ingredients. In some foods of this type, corn may actually be the most predominant ingredient after water, but because it has been split out into three different corn-derived ingredients, these ingredients dropped to a lower place on the label. You will see this labeling practice applied to other cereals (what she sometimes calls dry cat food) as well.

Sometimes you will see a dry food with something like “chicken” as the first ingredient. The ingredient known as “chicken” has high moisture content (75% or more) and has to be dehydrated, or reduced to “chicken meal”, during the mixing and extrusion process. If it had been listed as “chicken meal” on the label, however, it would not have had its moist weight, and would have dropped lower on the list of ingredients. For example, a dry food with the ingredient list, “chicken, corn flour, chicken fat, soy protein, and so on” probably doesn’t have more chicken than corn flour by weight in the finished kibble, but listing the chicken before it reached its dry form in the kibble allowed it to be listed first, legally, on the label.

I realize this book is only one person''s opinions, and I do not necessarily agree with everything she says. In fact, I would really like to know if she has any fiancial interest in Feline''s Pride brand of cat food! Nevertheless, I felt like the book was a worthwhile read.

 

[Miranda]

Can you change Boo''s food? There is only one kind I can give Leo.......Or else.

This is very interesting. I hope to learn more about cat food.

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 9/17/2008 8:57:02 PM
Author: Miranda
Can you change Boo's food? There is only one kind I can give Leo.......Or else.

This is very interesting. I hope to learn more about cat food.

You feed him Nutro, correct? I checked the ingredients of "Nutro Max Cat Adult Roasted Chicken Dry Cat Food" (info from www.petfooddirect.com):

Ingredients:
Chicken Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Wheat Flour, Ground Rice, Poultry Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Ground Whole Wheat, Natural Flavors, Chicken, Yeast Culture, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Menhaden Fish Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, Taurine, Zinc Sulfate, Dried Cranberry, Ferrous Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Inositol, Niacin, Copper Sulfate, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Manganous Oxide, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Potassium Iodide, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Dried Blueberry, Biotin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Folic Acid, Sodium Selenite.

Guaranteed Analysis %:
Crude Protein (minimum) 32
Crude Fat (minimum) 18
Moisture (maximum) 10
Ash (maximum) 6.5
Crude Fiber (maximum) 3

OK, so here's the calculations: Total: 69.5%/100 = approx 30.5% carbs

Breaking this down into DMB looks like this: 28.8% protein; 33.9% carbs; 20% fat.

More carbs than protein is definitely never a good combo for cats. Couple that with four of the first six ingredients being grains, particularly corn and wheat... and it is my VERY humble opinion that if this is what he is eating, we can do MUCH better for Sir Leo.

Is he fussy? You can begin changing his food slowly and gradually, and I'll bet he'd do just fine. Believe me, he won't let himself starve to death!!!

 

[Miranda]

It''s not that he''s picky Lynn. It''s the shat factor. Everything gives him the runs. And you know how gross that can be on a long haired kitty. This cat has the most sensitive tummy. But, of course, I do want the very best nutrition for my poopsie.

haha - poop pun was not intended, but if the *ahem* fits......

 

[swingirl]

The "as recently as 25 years ago" is obviously written by someone very young. We had regular wet and dry cat food IN THE FIFTIES!!! Yikes--over 50 years ago! Lots of people had cats, city cats were fed cat food and the outdoor cats snagged whatever they could! Most of those were cats raised on plain old Purina Cat Chow lived into their teens. Purina started making livestock feed in 1893.

My pet gets raw meat and vegetables--like he would in the wild--along with processed food.

 

[Miranda]

Date: 9/17/2008 11:30:55 PM
Author: swingirl
The ''as recently as 25 years ago'' is obviously written by someone very young. We had regular wet and dry cat food IN THE FIFTIES!!! Yikes--over 50 years ago! Lots of people had cats, city cats were fed cat food and the outdoor cats snagged whatever they could! Most of those were cats raised on plain old Purina Cat Chow lived into their teens. Purina started making livestock feed in 1893.

My pet gets raw meat and vegetables--like he would in the wild--along with processed food.

This is interesting. My IL''s tried this with their cat. He wouldn''t eat it. Unfortunately, too. He has kidney problems.

Do you worry about food borne illness. Salmonella, E. Coli, etc.? Not for the cat, because I know they have enzymes that break the germs down, but, is there any threat to the owner?

 

[Matata]

Date: 9/17/2008 11:15:45 PM
Author: Miranda
It''s not that he''s picky Lynn. It''s the shat factor. Everything gives him the runs. And you know how gross that can be on a long haired kitty. This cat has the most sensitive tummy. But, of course, I do want the very best nutrition for my poopsie.
haha - poop pun was not intended, but if the *ahem* fits......

This type of sensitivity may be caused by an allergy to something in the food. One way to find out what the allergen is would be to feed a novel protein for 6 months or so and slowly add in other ingredients and watch what happens. Allergies may be due to the type of meat or one of the additives used in commercial food preparation. Some cats can''t tolerate chicken or chicken by-products. The protein I see most frequently recommended is rabbit. I''m feeding this to my kitty along with quail and her vomiting and runs have stopped. She has Irritable Bowell Disease which makes it difficult for her to absorb sufficient nutrients from her food and I constantly experiment with diet to keep her healthy.

 

[Matata]

Date: 9/17/2008 11:38:53 PM
Author: Miranda

Date: 9/17/2008 11:30:55 PM

Do you worry about food borne illness. Salmonella, E. Coli, etc.? Not for the cat, because I know they have enzymes that break the germs down, but, is there any threat to the owner?

Miranda, you have to use good hygiene when handling raw food whether you''re preparing it for a human or pet. I feed my cats Feline''s Pride (a prepared raw cat food)as well as rats, mice, quail & guinea pig and I''m careful to wash my hands after handling the food and wash any surfaces that I prepare the food on, same as I do when fixing chicken, pork, etc. for DH & me. So far I haven''t killed anyone or made anyone sick (well, maybe, I have, but it''s due to my lack of culinary skill rather than germs. LOL)

 

[Lynn B]

Miranda,

Matata makes some excellent points... I would suspect that Leo's problems may be allergy-related, too. Some cats can't tolerate the grains, either. Actually, in those loooooong ingredient lists that most cat foods have, it could be anything.

I know, it's so frustrating! It would take some work to figure it out... but I bet we could. Just let us know if you wanna try, and we'll start a new "Let's Try to Change Leo's Diet and Keep Him From SHATTING EVERYWHERE!" thread!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 9/18/2008 7:14:47 AM
Author: Lynn B
Miranda,

Matata makes some excellent points... I would suspect that Leo''s problems may be allergy-related, too. Some cats can''t tolerate the grains, either. Actually, in those loooooong ingredient lists that most cat foods have, it could be anything.

I know, it''s so frustrating! It would take some work to figure it out... but I bet we could. Just let us know if you wanna try, and we''ll start a new ''Let''s Try to Change Leo''s Diet and Keep Him From SHATTING EVERYWHERE!'' thread!

Lynn, how is the adorable Mr Tiskas Stinkyweeds??

 

[bee*]

raw meat can be great for them-just make sure that you keep up with your cat''s worming programme.

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 9/18/2008 7:43:07 AM
Author: Lorelei

Lynn, how is the adorable Mr Tiskas Stinkyweeds??

Awwww, Lorelei, thanks for asking! He is 100 ways of FINE!!! Here''s a recent photo. I have some more, too; I''ll update the Raggie thread soon!

 

[swingirl]

Date: 9/17/2008 11:38:53 PM
Author: Miranda

Date: 9/17/2008 11:30:55 PM

Author: swingirl

The 'as recently as 25 years ago' is obviously written by someone very young. We had regular wet and dry cat food IN THE FIFTIES!!! Yikes--over 50 years ago! Lots of people had cats, city cats were fed cat food and the outdoor cats snagged whatever they could! Most of those were cats raised on plain old Purina Cat Chow lived into their teens. Purina started making livestock feed in 1893.


My pet gets raw meat and vegetables--like he would in the wild--along with processed food.

This is interesting. My IL's tried this with their cat. He wouldn't eat it. Unfortunately, too. He has kidney problems.


Do you worry about food borne illness. Salmonella, E. Coli, etc.? Not for the cat, because I know they have enzymes that break the germs down, but, is there any threat to the owner?

I only feed my dog raw ground beef which I get from my local butcher and trust. I don't think you are ever supposed to give them raw pork or fish. He also gets tomatoes, carrots, apple and anything he'll eat when it's cut in a small bit and tossed into the air. Cats wouldn't do that. I bought an occicat from the breeder that originated the breed and her strict diet was raw beef or lamb, cooked rice, tomatoes and other vegies. She fed that to her show and breeding cats and swore by it.

Lynn B, that kitty is gorgeous!! Beautiful eyes.

 

[bee*]

oh wow Lynn he''s gorgeous

I love his face

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 9/18/2008 10:03:01 PM
Author: Lynn B

Date: 9/18/2008 7:43:07 AM
Author: Lorelei

Lynn, how is the adorable Mr Tiskas Stinkyweeds??

Awwww, Lorelei, thanks for asking! He is 100 ways of FINE!!! Here''s a recent photo. I have some more, too; I''ll update the Raggie thread soon!

Ooooh Lynn he is so stinkin'' gorgeous, look at his little pinky nose....

 

[Lynn B]

Thought this was an interesting read. Don''t stop reading when the article is over; the notes at the bottom (references) are worthwhile, too.

http://leda.law.harvard.edu/leda/data/784/Patrick06.html#fnB176