Can he learn Romance?

[Mara]

I don't think I posted this here but it's the funniest story and totally encapsulates how men think differently from women IMO. The whole E for effort and F for presentation thing...

When we were first dating, my sweet Greg went out in the afternoon from work to a florist nearby and spent an hour walking around hand-picking flowers he thought/knew I would like for Valentine's Day.

When I came over for dinner, this big beautiful bouquet of mismatched flowers was sitting on his counter in a tupperware plastic iced'tea container.

He shows it to me, all proud and I just look askance at it...actually I'm looking askance INSIDE and ooh and ahhing over the flowers on the outside. Then I said oh where's the vase? What vase? Ummm are we just going to leave the flowers in the tupperware container? At this point he started to realize that he was getting a big F on presentation and got irritated with me for not being appreciative enough about the flowers. Hahaha...it was a bone of contention for a few years with us, he didn't want to buy me flowers anymore etc etc...because I was 'too picky'...

So finally in the last 2 years he's come out of it and gets me flowers more regularly now and finally we had a discussion about it the other day, which came about fairly random, I don't even know how we got to talking about it. Bu I said okay look at it from my perspective. You do all this great stuff with the flowers and then you don't get a vase to finish it off? Did they ask you if you wanted one? He said yes but said he said no. I said well did you have one at home? No. Well why didn't you just stop at WALGREENS on the way home and get one, yanno if it was too expensive at the florist? Buck 99! Presentation baby!!!

Well after the discussion, it appeared he actually got it!! I was shocked. But seriously, in his mind he's thinking wow I did this fabulous thing choosing the flowers for her...she'll be so impressed. And I WAS. But that tupperware container? ACK!

Anyway I saw the story about the gifts in the wallpaper and I had to laugh, because it reminded me of this flower story. Men! Gotta love 'em.

 

[zdrastvootya]

Hi,

Just lurking on this thread. I''m a guy and not the most romantic, but have to say that some of the guys described above do sound a little out of touch. Maybe you can talk to their best friend and try to get the word out that way?

As far as a critique on the flowers in a pitcher, from my point of view, the gift was 90% there. Hand picking individual flowers is not something a guy will do again if he''s going to be critiqued on what he didn''t do right. Would you want to be critiqued on a gift that you put a lot of effort into, but didn''t know much about? Can''t help but think this is why bride''s stress out over the wedding and reception: if it''s not 100% right, it''s a failure. Men work on more of a 80/20 rule. Hope I''m not offending. Just my point of view.

Z.

 

[SoonIHope]

haha, I think what you''re saying and what Mara''s saying are pretty much exactly the same! The gift was very nice and thoughtful and 90% there...but from a woman''s point of view (well, mine & I think Mara''s) why NOT just try to understand that even though you think it''s silly of a woman to care about a tiny detail like a vase, it IS important to her, and just play along? This is a recurring theme I have in disagreements with my fiance - I express some feeling I have and he tells me it''s not worth being worried about or whatever, and I just have to keep telling him EVEN IF IT''S NOT IMPORTANT TO YOU, YOU NEED TO ACCEPT THAT IT''S IMPORTANT TO ME!

I think the basic issue is that men (generalizing of course) tend to think that those silly little details don''t matter (wrapping the present, buying the vase etc) - which isn''t in and of itself a problem. But then when the women say, "I would really like it if you could wrap my present/make the plans yourself/buy a vase" etc, the men respond in a way that indicates that it''s "not important" to them b/c the big picture is the same either way. So for me and my fiance, the problem isn''t that something isn''t 100% right and THAT bugs me, the problem is that when I express that something bugs me, he (sometimes) tells me that my feeling isn''t valid. So even though I may tell him 1,000 times, "I love it when you bring me flowers, but please put them in a vase because that makes it so much more special," he refuses to accept that it matters TO ME b/c it seems so trivial to him. So I think a lot of the posts in this thread are more about that feeling - that the men won''t acknowledge the importance and validity of their wives/girlfriend''s feelings which in turn frustrates the women, which in turn frustrates the men b/c they were already 90% there! Vicious circle that one.

 

[nytemist]

And this is why I''m a little nervous about the proposal from my BF. That "20%". Don''t get me worng...I''m wildly grateful that he chose to spend his life with me, but it''s all in the details.
That''s what makes it the story you tell for years.

 

[zdrastvootya]

A.,

I think you''ve hit the nail on the head. For men to do the romance thing, they have to understand one of the key motivations: because it''s important to HER. If a guy only thinks about why does a woman really need this stuff, he''s going to trip up.

I don''t pick up much, but somehow, I''ve trained myself (or been trained , when something is IMPORTANT TO HER, big alarm bells go off in my head. BONG, BONG, BONG. (They say, "pay attention", "don''t screw up".) Things are able to penetrate the thick male skull sometimes.

Z.

I have a nice vase on my dining room table. It was a wedding gift, but I do appreciate it Big leaded-glass/crystal thing.

 

[anchor31]

Date: 1/24/2006 5:35:01 PM
Author: nytemist
And this is why I''m a little nervous about the proposal from my BF. That ''20%''. Don''t get me worng...I''m wildly grateful that he chose to spend his life with me, but it''s all in the details.
That''s what makes it the story you tell for years.

Word.

 

[snogirl17]

Well it wasnt a proposal but it was my birthday yesterday and here is a bit of the story..

so my boyfriend had class last night and sara and lesley came over for some wine... So sara shows up and we are having some wine and all of a suddent the door bell rings, i went to answer the door assuming it was Lesley and well there was no one was there... just a Happy birthday balloon and a rose. i was like what the heck.. who is this from... i was so confused... sara and i were racking our brains trying to figure it out, who would do this....finally lesley showed up and we were all sitting and talking.. all of a sudden the door bell rings again... i jetted to the front door, sara took the side door.... low and behold.. sara comes in with 11 roses and another balloon... so i was getting a bit freaked... i had no idea wha was going on.... lesley and i decided to be super sluths and try to find out who it was... she went around the garage one way... i went around the other way.. and it was jesse my boyfriend, here he had 2 dozen more roses and 20 more ballons... he was going to keep doing this... we felt soo bad for ruining his plan..

i just think it was cute that he was trying to surprise me.. which he did.. and do it in such a creative way... i really felt like carrie from sex and the city for a bit... although i am not sure why!

 

[ladykemma]

in al-anon we say "an expectation is a premeditated resentment".

in couples therapy my hubby and I were taught to tell each other what we wanted, up to and including circling pictures in catalogs, or preparing a list of suggestions. it stops the guessing game and disappointments.

Us women get into trouble thinking our men should be able to read minds.

 

[ladykemma]

i wanted to add:
a typical birthday at our house is:

what do you want to do for your birthday?
lemme think about it...
ok, I want to go to steak and ale on saturday afternoon, i want a birthday cake from bobby taylor, and I want these choices of jewelry for a present. i want to spend saturday evening at home alone with you.

see everyone gets their needs met. no surprises, no hurt, no disappointment, no games, no hinting.

 

[Lorelei]

My Hubby doesn't have a romantic bone in his body, but he is so sweet, kind and generous in other ways that I have to forgive him. I think if he ever tried to be romantic I would probably laugh - sounds awful I know but that is one of the best things about our marriage is that we do laugh together a lot. He does surprise me with perfume occasionally but most of the time when we go shopping he says " get what you want" and doesn't bat an eyelid at my expensive loot

So to answer the question can he learn romance - maybe, but dropping hints never hurts to steer them in the right direction.