Calling Owners of Old Homes! Questions ...

[elrohwen]

DH and I have started some house shopping lately and tomorrow we're going to look at an 1812-era farmhouse. DH and I are a bit torn on how we feel about very old homes - we love the character and the idea of old homes, but we're not really willing to get ourselves into a total fixer-upper situation. For that reason, we're only looking at homes (of any age) in good shape (at least from what we can tell) which means most of the houses we're looking at were built in the last 20-30 years. However, when we do find that rare old home that seems to be really well maintained, we can't help but go and check it out.

Anyway, this particular house is one of those oldies that seems to be in excellent shape. New kitchen, new bathrooms, new windows, overall well maintained, etc. What should we be looking at when we tour it tomorrow night (if we like it, we'll go back on a weekend when it's light and we can see the yard and outside of the house). Obviously there are a lot of plumbing, electrical, heating, and roofing questions that would need to be answered - we might find out some of that tomorrow, and some would have to wait until an inspection if we decided we were interested.

What are the things we would be able to see ourselves (or ask our agent) that we might not think of? DH wondered this morning if it would have enough electrical outlets, which is a very good point, and something we'll take note of. What else?

 

[lyra]

I don't know if this is relevant where you live or not, but check into how the insurance will go on a house of that age. My DH and I were shocked to learn that in our area, homes more than 100 years old are not insurable! Contents yes, but structure no. That is sad because we have lovely old solid stone houses in that time period, but we wouldn`t be comfortable with such a stipulation.

Otherwise, I`d think you`d have to go in with a thorough home inspector for sure. Old homes can have expensive problems. Good luck!

 

[elrohwen]

I don't know if this is relevant where you live or not, but check into how the insurance will go on a house of that age. My DH and I were shocked to learn that in our area, homes more than 100 years old are not insurable! Contents yes, but structure no. That is sad because we have lovely old solid stone houses in that time period, but we wouldn`t be comfortable with such a stipulation.

Otherwise, I`d think you`d have to go in with a thorough home inspector for sure. Old homes can have expensive problems. Good luck!

That is really great advice! I'll definitely ask our agent about it, and give our current insurance company a call if we're interested in the house after Wednesday.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

The house has insulation, right? Silly question, I know, but we owned a home from the 1930s and it didn't and our heating bill was out of control!

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I'm excited for you, Elrohwen!

DH makes a very good point about the availability of electrical outlets since many of the antiques we saw only had 1 - 2 outlets per room. Also, take a close look at the outlet itself. Will it accommodate a third prong? Many of the outlets we saw in antiques would only accommodate a 2-prong plug, so we wouldn't be able to plug in anything with a grounding plug. Even the cable outlets and phone jacks were hard to find (and determine how your furniture can be configured unless you want to pay an electrician to re-wire). In most cases, the electricity has been upgraded (from knob and tube), but you never know how good of a job the electrician did.

Another thing we noticed is the lack of fans/ventillation in the bathrooms. This might be minor, but it came up in our home inspection. The only way to get the steam out of the bathroom in a lot of antiques is to open a window or have a fan installed.

When it comes to an antique, the real digging is when you hire the experts to come in and look at it. Emphasis on expertS, because hiring a home inspector simply isn't enough when you're buying an antique. I would STRONGLY advise you to hire a structural engineer, electrician and maybe even a plumber to look at the antique if you end up putting in an offer. As you can imagine, the scary part of owning an antique is in all the stuff you can't see. The wiring and plumbing behind the walls, the structure itself, etc. In the last antique we put an offer on (and backed out of), the structural engineer uncovered a $50K problem that the home inspector wasn't trained to see.

I wish you lots of luck!! And have fun!!

ETA: MC makes a good point about insulation. You can usually tell by knocking on the walls--if there is insulation behind them, it should sound solid and not hollow. This is somethign your home inspector will definitely tell you as well.

Also, in terms of insuring old homes, you do have to sign a contract stating that the home would be built to modern standards. You can get special insurance to have the home built as it was originally, but it is INSANELY expensive, understandably.

 

[soocool]

One of my good friends has a stone farmhouse from the late 1700s. They heat their entire house using only their fireplace.


What to look out for: lead paint (this is very costly to remove) and updates made to the house using asbestos i.e shingles, siding (also costly to remove). Pipes in plumbing, electrical system is it up to code. My friend's husband is a contractor and was able to do much of the work himself to renovate, but had to hire someone to take care of the lead paint (window frames) and the asbestos shingles they used on the farmhouse addition in the mid 1900s.

ETAops see you said new windows so lead paint probably won't be a problem. I would ask if there are multiple layers of roofing. Some people don't remove the original roof and just place another one over the existing one. You want to know what is underneath (again an asbestos question).

 

[elrohwen]

Thank you all so much for your help! I knew there would be some great advice here.

As a teaser, here are a couple (obviously professionally done) pictures of the inside. It looks really nice. Still, it seems to be very cheap per sqft compared to houses in the area and I can't figure out why - hopefully it will be obvious enough during the walkthrough and we can decide if it's a deal breaker for us.

 

[elrohwen]

Another question - it's currently on well water, though it's in a pretty populated area and I assume most other houses are on city water. Is it possible to switch over to city water? Or once on well, always on well? How does that work?

 

[soocool]

Another question - it's currently on well water, though it's in a pretty populated area and I assume most other houses are on city water. Is it possible to switch over to city water? Or once on well, always on well? How does that work?

Check with the town officials. But you would have to pay to hookup (plumber) from the street to your home. Can be pretty costly. A neighboring town here in SE PA put in a public sewer system and residents were responsible for the cost to hookup from house to street lines (average cost was $15,000 could be higher depending on the town and distance from street to house). Does the house have a septic system or public sewers? Just a suggestion if you purchase the house, keep the well to water the lawn, plants - it will greatly reduce your water bill. Well water is free!

 

[elrohwen]

Another question - it's currently on well water, though it's in a pretty populated area and I assume most other houses are on city water. Is it possible to switch over to city water? Or once on well, always on well? How does that work?

Check with the town officials. But you would have to pay to hookup (plumber) from the street to your home. Can be pretty costly. A neighboring town here in SE PA put in a public sewer system and residents were responsible for the cost to hookup from house to street lines (average cost was $15,000 could be higher depending on the town and distance from street to house). Does the house have a septic system or public sewers? Just a suggestion if you purchase the house, keep the well to water the lawn, plants - it will greatly reduce your water bill. Well water is free!

Wow, that's much more costly than I would've guessed!! No wonder it's still on well water (it's on septic too). That's probably not something we'd be interested in paying - at least not right away - so we'd have to decide to live with the well water.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Everything is negotiable, especially in this market. If you do really like the house, you could always put in an offer contingent upon the seller paying the costs to transfer to city water. The town should be able to tell you the flat fee for hooking up, but obviously you'd have to shop around for a plumber to get his costs as well. Is the house far from the road? Also, whether or not the plumbing is updated (from cast-iron to PVC) will be an issue here. You can probably tell when you look in the basement.

 

[dragonfly411]

Elro - Once you go to well you won't go back ; )

Generally houses that old can be on the lower end of the price spectrum b/c people want a "new" house.

I'd look to make sure the wiring is all interior, vs running along the ceilings or what not. I'd check faucets. Check the floor boards, and the ceilings. Check the bathrooms for any sign of mildew. Be sure to ask what the electric bill runs. Look for anything that might allow air to escape/get in. Check electric outlets. Check the condition of the windows, and doors. How much land is it on?

 

[kelpie]

I love the character of old homes. Yes, they can feel like they have bad mojo, we passed on a lovely 1800 home with actual shackles in the cellar to lock your slaves to. Found and love a nice 1925 foursquare presumably not built by slaves.

Yes, ask about the wiring. My house was one of the first in the area designed to had electricity so it was never updated. I don't feel like it's a hazard or anything but we have had to do some upgrades to keep circuits from blowing like while the TV and microwave were both on. There's a lack of 3 prong outlets. It is pretty simple to add more outlets on a lower floor accessing from the basement/cellar if there's one. Look in the basement/cellar and scrutinize for water, mold and termite damage. Try to get an idea of how airtight the house is, the age of any insulation/window improvements and ask what their electric bill is. My feeling is that houses built long ago were built to last if they are still here and habitable. My home has stood 85 years and will stand anther 85, god willing. So many of the homes build these days appear to be made out of paperboard and I see many 35 yo neighborhoods just basically disintegrating for the entry level homes. Any home with a lot of real stone and/or brick exterior is a good bet and also cheaper to insure. Plumbing in old homes is quite expensive to upgrade since the pipes are hard to access, find out what year it was put in. PVC pipes are your friend, pretty much anything else will eventually lead to trouble. I think we are a mix of galvanized a copper and will eventually need to upgrade, we get a lot of debris in or water and clogged showerheads (a thumbtack works wonders for cleaning this). Square angles are a sign of a solid house. Avoid dips in floors and stairs and suspicious sections of replaced floors unless everything was upgraded. We have a lot of cracked plaster in our home but it is not a sign of structural damage, what is is if the plaster looks like it's been wet. Good luck!

 

[elrohwen]

NEL, that's a good idea. From the town records I can find, the house seems to have appraised even below their asking price, so it would be a good tool for negotiation. Then again, I worry that the house appraised for so low (about $80-100k below a newer house of similar square footage). And to answer your question, the house is very near the road, which should help with upgrading plumbing. In fact, the nearness to the road it one of the downsides. It's a long rectangle, and the short side is on the road, so it's better than the whole thing sitting squarely on the road, and the owners have done a good job of planting large bushes to make it more private.

DF, from the pictures I posted, the wiring is definitely not running along the walls or anything, but it'll probably be hard to us to tell much else about it just from looking around (which I'm worried about). The house is on about 1.2 acres of land (an acre is our minimum requirement) and it's a great piece of property. It's bordered by farmland behind (unusual since it's a quiet suburban area, but not exactly rural) and we like that.

Kelpie, thanks for the advice! We will definitely be looking at the plumbing as closely as we can now. The house looks to be updated, but I worry that the updates are all cosmetic and only covering any potential problems - I don't want to be fooled by this, but not much we can do. I guess that's what the professionals are for! We'd definitely call in as many as we could before buying a 200 year old house.

 

[kelpie]

You're welcome! Also this is a little weird but we have a heck of a time finding an old house DH could stand up in! So many houses were eliminated because of that and we could have saved a lot of time had we known the ceiling height. He is 6'5" and if you have anyone in your fam is over 6 feet call your agent and get them to screen out the houses with impossibly low ceilings and stairwells. Even the one we bought he has to duck on part of the stairs but he didn't tell me until we were already living there. We looked at the seemingly perfect house advertised as "Low ceilings make this cottage home economical to heat!". Well they were barely 6 foot ceilings, it felt like a playhouse to me and I'm only 5'1!

 

[elrohwen]

You're welcome! Also this is a little weird but we have a heck of a time finding an old house DH could stand up in! So many houses were eliminated because of that and we could have saved a lot of time had we known the ceiling height. He is 6'5" and if you have anyone in your fam is over 6 feet call your agent and get them to screen out the houses with impossibly low ceilings and stairwells. Even the one we bought he has to duck on part of the stairs but he didn't tell me until we were already living there. We looked at the seemingly perfect house advertised as "Low ceilings make this cottage home economical to heat!". Well they were barely 6 foot ceilings, it felt like a playhouse to me and I'm only 5'1!

Hahaha. DH is about 6'2" and he will definitely let me know! We looked at a house (from the 80s, so not an oldie) that had a low basement ceiling and he couldn't stand up without hitting his head. It was a really nice house in many ways, but we had to rule it out since he couldn't even use the basement. The ceilings don't look particularly high in this house, so I'm curious to see how he does (at least they're quite a bit higher than the doorways, so hopefully we'll be fine). I'm 5'9", so low ceilings aren't my favorite thing either

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Sounds promising, Elrohwen! Our antique sits very close to the road as well, which was also the biggest drawback for me. We do have a privacy fence up, however, so we don't see any cars. We don't really hear them, either. And the layout is identical to yours--large rectangle on about an acre and a half, backing to woods. So while we do sit close to the road, the only thing we actually see is woods. Anyway, yes, being close to the road will definitely keep down costs when hooking up to the water.

Keep us updated, I'm interested to see how it goes! After living in an antique for a few months now, I LOVE it. I've been keeping a fire going in our fireplace for the past week or so now that it's cold outside. I have to say, the charm of the house with its original fireplaces, floors, etc., especially now in the winter when we can get a roaring fire going, is lovely.

Oh, and I wanted to add that ceiling height was an issue for us, too! We looked at one antique with 6-foot ceilings on the upper floors and DH (6' 2") had to duck. The main level of our 1775 house has 9 foot ceilings, which is great. But two of the upstairs bedrooms have low ceilings. In one, they raised the ceilings and exposed the beams, which I love. Now we have to do it in the other bedroom (which is going to be a future kids' playroom, anyway). My realtor, who has an antique and specializes in antiques says that raising the ceilings t oexpose the beams is a common remedy to low ceilings. Plus, I love the way the beams look. Our beams still have all the original pegs, not a single nail used in its construction!

 

[elrohwen]

NEL, your house sounds lovely!

As you can see in the pics, the living room has exposed beams, and the dining room does as well (I think one of the upstairs bedrooms does too). They're beautiful!

It looks like the fireplace in the living room has been replaced with a wood burning stove (from what I can tell in the pics) which I actually kind of prefer - we were thinking of putting one in whatever house we get and it would be a much better heating solution than just a fireplace. Still, not quite as romantic I guess! I'm sure there will be more than just the one fireplace though. I'm very excited to see it.

We saw another antique a few weeks ago that sits right on the Hudson River. It was beautiful and you couldn't beat the views! Unfortunately the train tracks for the Metro North train run about 40ft in front of the house The living area was also pretty small and poorly laid out (the gorgeous staircase took up way too much room). Still, it was so much fun to visit. We're not set on buying an antique, but we're definitely enjoying looking at them here and there when we find a really good one. It's too bad we're not more urban - there are some great ones in the more urban area that are beautiful, but we definitely want something more rural/suburban.

 

[zoebartlett]

I grew up in an old house (built in the 1830s) and every single time my parents wanted to renovate one part of the house or another, they had to get the historic district committee to okay the project(s). These projects had to be especially okay'd if the outside was going to be affected. For instance, they wanted to put in a bay window in the kitchen to create a small dining area. The committee had to see the plans and they had to approve the project before any of the work could begin.

I mention this because it might be worth asking what the approval process is like (or even if one exists) for any future projects you might want to do. It might not bother some people to jump through these kind of hoops but it might not be something you want to deal with. Just something to think about.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I completely forgot to say that I love the pics of this house. I thought I'd written that, so sorry!

The wood-burning stove is actually really nice. We also have one in our living room and I told D I wanted to have it taken out and restore the original fireplace. And then we used it. Holy cow, the thing is AWESOME! It puts out so much heat and keeps the living room super cozy. Now that we have it, I can't believe I thought of taking it out. Like you said, antiques usually have more than one fireplace--we have a large fireplace in the kitchen/dining area that was originally used for cooking, another in the adjacent family room and then fireplaces in the bedrooms. I love having the wood-burning stove in the living room where we spend more time, then fireplaces in the other rooms for ambiance. I'd definietely keep the wood-burning stove in the living room, I bet you'd use it all the time.

 

[Tuckins1]

Our house was built in 1923. When we took ownership, we had to gut the ENTIRE house- electrical, plumbing, roof, floor joists, kitchen/bath, etc... Do check the electrical. Are there new-ish outlets? GFI's in the bathrooms? Loom for foundation issues- cracked/bowed walls or ceilings. Check the chimney. Is it cracked/patched? That could indicate water or foundation problems. Ask about insulation. We had to blow in insulation. It's not a huge expense, but it's important to know for heating/cooling efficiency. Good luck to you!

 

[iheartscience]

Another old house lover here! My house was built in 1920 and has been updated along the way with new electrical (only one 2 prong outlet left in the whole house), new windows, new kitchen and it's had a downstairs half bath added. It's brick so the exterior is in great shape, too. I'm a little afraid of older houses with wood siding, personally, but if I had found one I loved it wouldn't stop me!

I don't have much to add to what everyone else had said as far as possible issues to look for. This is probably too obvious to be helpful, but if you like the house, can you find a home inspector in your area who has experience with old houses? An experienced home inspector is probably your best bet to figuring out all the issues with the house.

 

[artdecogirl]

Elrohwen, Love the pics, The living room is beautiful! and the kitchen looks pretty updated. One thing to note is closets, older houses tend to not have many and none in the bedrooms, good luck with the house search.

 

[elrohwen]

Thanks for the replies! Just heard from my agent and I think we got our wires crossed - she sent me a list of the houses we're supposed to see tonight, and this house wasn't on it Instead, another house was - it's beautiful, but a bit too far away for my taste, and a bit out of our price range (we might be able to negotiate down, but the taxes are also way too high). I emailed her back and hopefully she says we can still see this house, but it might have to wait. We're going on vacation for a few weeks so if we don't see it tonight we won't get to see it until December Oh well!

Zoe - I don't think there's any historical district that would have to approve things, but I'll definitely ask. The other houses in the area are much more recent, so I don't think anybody would care what we did with it. That would definitely be a pain to get everything approved!

NEL, I loooove wood burning stoves! A few of our friends heat their houses with them and we've been set on installing one for a while, so having one already is a bonus. I really like that it's installed neatly in the fireplace instead of sitting out in the middle of the room, taking up space. They're really fantastic. Even if we end up with a modern house we'll definitely be putting one in our main living area.

Tuckins, good tips! We definitely won't be buying a house that needs as much work as yours did - that sounds like a lot! I bet it's so worth it after the fact though. We're hoping to find something that doesn't need much more than some cosmetic repairs (maybe new floors, etc) but hopefully we don't get blindsided with any huge issues.

Thing, it does have wood siding, which means a lot more checking for bugs and termites I guess. Brick would be better, but I can't say I've seen any old brick houses around here, so I think our choices are limited. We'll definitely look for inspectors who specialize in old homes if we get that far! We'll have that thing inspected into the ground. Haha. I definitely don't want any unexpected expensive repairs coming up.

Deco, we'll definitely check out the closets! We've never dreamed of a massive walk in closet or anything, but I grew up in a slightly older home (1945) with tiny closets and that's no fun either.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Elrohwen--bummer about the miscommunication! I really hope you get to pop in and see it tonight before the vacation. A 3-week vacations sounds absolutely fantastic!! Have a wonderful time!!

 

[elrohwen]

Elrohwen--bummer about the miscommunication! I really hope you get to pop in and see it tonight before the vacation. A 3-week vacations sounds absolutely fantastic!! Have a wonderful time!!

She got back to me and said we could see it! She originally crossed it off the list because she wanted to take us to see the houses closer together, but I guess she didn't realize we really wanted to visit this particular house. Though she still wants to take us to the McMansion out of our price range Whatever. Though it's sadly only a 2 week vacation! We just won't have time to see houses again until the weekend after Thanksgiving weekend. I wish we got a 3 week vacation!

 

[swimmer]

El, its all about the basement baby. We just bought a 1928 home and it was among the younger houses we were serious about. Look for the circuit breaker box and check to see the dates of inspection and installation. The furnace is of course key. We just figured if the basement was in good repair, then they took care of the important things. Electricity and heating are some of the most expensive things to take care of. This site had some great points http://www.oldhouseweb.com/how-to-advice/buying-an-old-house.shtml Have fun hunting and touring!

 

[Loves Vintage]

Elrohwen,

Ohhhhhhhhhh, I love the photos you posted! I hope you get to see it tonight! How long has it been on the market for? Maybe that's why it's priced low? Maybe there's something in the disclosures?? Hope your agent gets you in the house tonight.

ETA: Oh, and we have well water, and I absolutely LOVE it. It's the best tasting water I've ever had, so definitely not a negative in my view. Oh, and there is new contstruction in my town too, but everyone has well water/septic, so new build does not necessarily mean water and sewer. Re: ceiling height, I looked at an antique home on the Quinnipiac River in New Haven (years back) and at 5'8", it was just not doable! Hopefully, ceiling height is not an issue in this house.

TJ: Swimmer - Congrats on your new house!!!!!!! How exciting! Yay for 1928!! My first house was built in 1930, and it had the best details! You should start a thread with some pics of the details. I love looking at older homes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[NewEnglandLady]

El, its all about the basement baby.

Swimmer makes an excellent point! Our structural engineer told us to keep an eye out for the basements. He said once the basements start to go, the house soon follows. Be sure to check for water marks. Apparently water in the basement is the worst problem to have and it's not uncommon for antiques. The last antique we put an offer on had water issues (which the homeowners tried to cover up). They ended up needing to put a $10K sump pump system in the house before it would sell.

 

[Steel]

Oooh I hope you get to view - it looks amazing.

I'm with LV, we have our own well too and it is great water. But for me I love to be in control of my own - when the city lost water due to contamination after the floods this year we were fine up here.

About things to look out for: Doorways and hallways. Older houses tend to be narrower than modern furniture allows for. So look closely at the styles used for staging - would you want anythign bigger/longer etc if so make sure it will fit in the doorway, down the hall and can turn into the doorway or up the stairs.

If they are on well water I imagine the sewage is not mains either. Check when it was installed/maintained last and what guarantees are remaining. Also how often it is pumped and at what cost.

My neurotic tip about soil venting - close the lid of the loo and flush the toilet - then put your nose close to the basin to see if you get a waft of sewage. If properly working the basin drain should not vent the vacuum from the flush.