Call for Emerald or Asscher experts: Sarin report

[kevinraja]

This is probably my last post for advice. I have settled on the following EC stone. Following is the SARIN. Please weigh in on the Crown/pavilion data. As per DIY AGA charts, everything falls under 1A, except crown height which is 2A, which makes the overall grade to 1B.

Price: $8500
Report: GIA
Shape: Emerald
Carat: 1.71
Color: G
Clarity: SI1
Depth: 63.3
Table: 61
Crown height:10.7%
Crown Angle: 30.9 degrees
Pavilion Depth: 51%
Pavilion Angle: 56 degrees
Girdle: M-STK
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good
Culet: Small
Fluorescence: Faint
Measurements: 8.35-6.11X3.87
Length/Width: 1.37

Clarity Plot below. I personally saw the stone. Crystals are in the pavilion just off the table. They are not visible to naked eye at about 10-12 inches. When I stare at the stone from 4-6 inches, I still don''t see it face up. But at an angle, from 4-6 inches, I see them. With a 10x loupe, they are visible at an angle. I also saw reflections of the crystals under 10x loupe. I couldn''t see the crystals when diamond sits on a setting. When viewed through Ideal-Scope, I thought I saw a nice spread of red/pink everywhere but the four corners where I saw white

 

[windowshopper]

i think you already know that you''d be hard pressed to find an Ec with such great overall stats and at nearly two carats...

I am NOT an expert....but I think it looks superb from what youve shared

 

[belle]

it sounds as though you really like this stone! since you have seen it, examined it, and know what to look for (and still like what you see) it sounds like a no-brainer......you should get it!! nothing compares to being able to examine stones in person. i bet it''s a beauty!

 

[kevinraja]

Thanks windowshopper. Do you have crown/pavilion data of the EC that you purchased recently?

Belle, It is not like it "Really Really Like" the stone. I like it. It looked great. And I couldn't find better price/carat anywhere else, even online. I think the numbers are fantastic. I am a sceptic and a perfectionist. That is what bugs me

.

SECRET: The stone was advertised for $8500, but the stone's price when I went into the store was $10885, they said they will give 10% discount and reduce the price to $9800, which is about the price that I see on the internet for such a stone. I mentioned to them about the internet price, it looks like they made a mistake, but they said they would honor the price. The same stone on their newspaper ads was listed at $8500 as a I color SI1 stone instead of G-SI1 stone. It looks to me that they made a big blunder.

 

[Regular Guy]

Best of luck with your purchase.

BTW:

1) Did the stock number tie the internet id to the diamond you saw in the store?
2) Any other insights you want to share vis-a-vis Washington Diamond and Charleston Alexander?
3) Glad you''re buying local vs virtual, and any comments on the difference?

With best wishes!

 

[windowshopper]

yes i do have that data--my crown is a high 16/17ish% (multiple sarins --all different) and crown angle approx 47, pavillion angle approx48, pav depth approx 42% - SO like yours the one factor that throws the cut into 1B/2A

 

[kevinraja]

Regular Guy,
CA you don''t need any appointment, WD do need one. At both places, they don''t share much about the stone itself, except for the obvious like color and simple clarity details. They don''t even mention the word eye-clean. However, at CA they are lot more patient in lettin you view how much ever you want. In fact, I stopped by CA 3 times to look at the same stone. They were patient with me. I visited WD only once. The guy, I don''t want to mention the name, there was showing 2 EC with terrible table/depth numbers. One had a 61 table and 75 depth, which he said were good numbers. According to DIY AGA table, they are terrible. The second stone he mentioned was a 75 table and 70 depth. They pooh pooh anything you mention about the knowledge you gained from PS. They basically say, "Oh right, those things don''t apply to fancy stones".

 

[windowshopper]

kevinraja

several years ago when firstmarried i bought an EC with a depth of 78%--yes 78%. I knew nothing then...i remember saying this looks a lot smaller than i though a 3 1/2 carat stone would look--"ohh they always look smaller when set"


my new stone of a smaller carat weight looks huge compared to the other!

 

[JohnQuixote]

Kevin,

You’ve been very thorough. The numbers look good – if your eyes tell you it’s a winner then I’d give it the nod, especially with the price you’ve managed to negotiate.

To be 100% secure, are you planning an independent appraisal? If so, will the vendor give you a return window of a few days to have it done (just to be certain)?

 

[kevinraja]

To be 100% secure, are you planning an independent appraisal? If so, will the vendor give you a return window of a few days to have it done (just to be certain)?

John

I was thinking about it, which would cost me about 200 from a local appraiser "Martin Fuller". I called his office and asked him whether he would provide closeup IS or brilliance scope pictures or other images. They said, "Nah" they will just explain to me about the stone in person, and give a 2-3 page appraisal report. When I mentioned about IS, they said they will let me use their IS to view through it. I already have a IS myself. Whey the HELL would I want to pay $200 to get nothing from the appraiser. The numbers of my stone of interest falls under 1B of AGA charts. The stone looked good to me in person, and thru'' IS. Should I still get it appraised?

 

[DiamondsRagirlsbestfriend]

I know little about what makes any particular emerald cut especially wonderful, but if you''ve seen the stone in person and you like it, that''s so important.

ECs are my favorite - and I like the ratio that this one has.

Keep us post on your decision! Mary

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 1/7/2005 8:13:42 PM
Author: kevinraja

John

I was thinking about it, which would cost me about 200 from a local appraiser 'Martin Fuller'. I called his office and asked him whether he would provide closeup IS or brilliance scope pictures or other images. They said, 'Nah' they will just explain to me about the stone in person, and give a 2-3 page appraisal report. When I mentioned about IS, they said they will let me use their IS to view through it. I already have a IS myself. Whey the HELL would I want to pay $200 to get nothing from the appraiser. The numbers of my stone of interest falls under 1B of AGA charts. The stone looked good to me in person, and thru' IS. Should I still get it appraised?

Kevin, that's all up to you. My impression is that you're focused on quality and careful about your decisions...So, spending a bit more for the peace of mind and extras that come with another objective read seems reasonable. I'll editorialize for a minute and let you know that if it was me I would do it because I share your passion for the numbers as well as the beauty.

Also, as "into this" as you have become, I bet it would be a gas for you to work on this with an expert. That's why I recommend looking into the possibility of using one of the guys who posts here (you know the usual suspects by now). If this sounds good, PM and ask what they'd charge and what you'd get.

Here are my favorite "how-come?" links on appraisals...

Sherwood: Reasons to get an appraisal
Neil: Getting the most out of your appraisal
Atlas: Why you need an appraiser

(and unlike recommendations and some consumers...YOU'RE one I know will actually go read those)

 

[noobie]

Date: 1/7/2005 8:13:42 PM
Author: kevinraja
To be 100% secure, are you planning an independent appraisal? If so, will the vendor give you a return window of a few days to have it done (just to be certain)?


John

I was thinking about it, which would cost me about 200 from a local appraiser ''Martin Fuller''. I called his office and asked him whether he would provide closeup IS or brilliance scope pictures or other images. They said, ''Nah'' they will just explain to me about the stone in person, and give a 2-3 page appraisal report. When I mentioned about IS, they said they will let me use their IS to view through it. I already have a IS myself. Whey the HELL would I want to pay $200 to get nothing from the appraiser. The numbers of my stone of interest falls under 1B of AGA charts. The stone looked good to me in person, and thru'' IS. Should I still get it appraised?

Kevin,

Martin is a very qualified and professional appraiser. He was on a team that appraised the Hope Diamond and does work for the Smithsonian regularly. I''m not affliated with him, but have recieved good service. Whether or not you want it appraised is up to you. You get a professional opinion and discussion and a chance to pick his brains about how yours compares to the countless other stones he has seen along with an independent valuation for insurance. Would you rather pay $200 for an IS picture and a brilliance scope?

 

[kevinraja]

John, Thanks for your suggestions and links. I am going to try to look for appraisers that is willing to talk about the cut, idealscope images and other technical details apart from verifying GIA numbers. I hope I will find one. If I don''t find a good appraiser nearby DC, I am actually considering a 3 hour drive to Philly to meet David Atlas.

 

[valeria101]

Is there an IS image to dissect ?

 

[kevinraja]

HERE it is. It is only a drawing of what I saw. The B&M didn''t have facilities to take a pic.

 

[valeria101]

Out of curiosity... what does Sarin measure on Ecs?

I was expecting to find a diagram (of the kind sketched below) but Google didn't help this time.

 

[kevinraja]

That was the exact same question I had in my mind. That was why I posted another thread asking for how one calculates crown/pavilion angles from crown/pavilion height/depth. Based on the crown height and pavilion depth, I calculated the average crown angle to be 28.58 degrees and average pavilion depth to be 45.56 degrees. But the sarin reports says that the crown angle is 30.9 degrees and pavilion angle is 56 degrees. It looks like the SARIN is calculating angles based on the first step cut from the girdle.

Depth: 63.3
Table: 61
Crown height:10.7%
Pavilion Depth: 51%
Crown Angle: 30.9 degrees
Pavilion Angle: 56 degrees

 

[valeria101]

Date: 1/7/2005 9:53:28 PM
Author: kevinraja
That was the exact same question I had in my mind. ...\ It looks like the SARIN is calculating angles based on the first step cut from the girdle.

Yeah... Since the numbers do not add up (as expected for rounds, where some facets go all the way from top/bottom to girdle)... one can guess. Just wondering what the official version is.

The guesstimate based on the numbers leaves room for quite a few slightly different looks (IS) depending on slight variations of the steps. None too bad though