Buying Princess Cut - Need Help

[wiesemc]

To Whom It May Concern,

Hello. I''m now serious about getting a diamond...finally. I have a few questions. My girlfriend likes the princess cut but also the round. Does it really matter about the size of her hands...small and thin...in order to best show off the engagement ring? Her fingers a size 4.

I''m in the process of searching for a diamond. I''m looking to by the best rock as I already have the setting. My cost for the diamond is between $9K - $10K. Would someone please help me find what I''m searching for? I''m currently being aided by a jeweler in my town. This is the basis for what I want (Remember that I know little!):

Carat - 1.45 - 1.55
Color - D - G
Clarity - VVS2 - VSI
length-to-width ratio - 1.01 - 1.05

I really don''t know much about the table, depth and girdle. But I''ve been reading the best stones are...

Table - Depth - table)
Girth - thin to mod

Would someone help me! I''m looking to purchase in the next three weeks but not looking to ask until November or December. I can wait if needed. By the way I looking for a quality diamond but also one that is the best for the money. I''d be very appreciative the any help. Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,
Matthew

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Hi Matthew,
Congratulations!!
Here's a few pointers:
Buying a diamond should never be done in a rush.
If you want to give it to her in November, then you may need to get started in say...September.
Allow one month for a custom work to be made. It's liklely going to take less than that, but why cut it close?
Also - you need to make sure the setting will actually accept a princess cut.


If you get into November, many places start to get clogged up with holiday rush.
I'm not saying " Don't buy an engagement tring in December"- but I am saying that if you can wait till Janruary, you're likely to have a slighty easier time.
If you want to present it at Christmas, then you should start in Late October.


research anytime is a great thing, so this is a place to start.
I like the princess cut too.
I think the size of the hand makes a real difference.

If you went with the botom half you what you are looking for - that is to say G/VS2 1.45- hyperhetically speaking, it would fit into the budget.
But finding 1.54's is reeealy hard- much easier to find 1.50's- with all that added price, cutters often find the .05 somewhere along the cutting process.

I'd insist on a GIA report- NO substitutions there.

There are simply NO formulas that work for me when I look at princess cut stones.
Sure, I want to buy 65% depth stones- but many a 73% depth has taken my breath away and won me over.

 

[wiesemc]

Dear David,

Thank you for the information. I went on your site. Thank you. My jeweler is telling me a couple things to help me. First, buy in the month of July before August when the prices with be on the increase due to the beginning of the buying season. Second, he recommended EGL certs, telling me that top prices will be had for GIA. Great diamonds can be found with EGL, too. Third, he''s replacing the mounting for a Princess cut.

We''ll be going on a three-month trip around the world beginning in late October. That is why I''d like to have the ring ready sooner. I''m debating whether or not to bring in on the trip, though we''re going to a couple close to Third World countries. I''m not sure if it''s a risk I''m willing to take, but it sure sounds romantic.

Well, David, I certainly appreciate your feedback. It''s hard to imagine that there a great difference between a 1.50 and 1.55 carat. I certainly see your point. Thank you very much. I''ll be checking out your site for loose diamonds.

Sincerely,
Matthew

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Matthew- thanks!
I am not here to try and offer you anything other than the facts of life, as I see them
If you are spending $10K on a carat and a half +- princess cut, it''s simply poor advice to say that GIA stones will go up more than EGl stones.
What is accurate is that desirable diamonds will always go up when diamond prices rise, while less than desirable stones follow far more slowly.

If you were looking at a $6000 ( or less) 1.50, I''d say sure- EGL is fine if you feel comfie with the seller.
But in the 9k range- GIA man, GIA. This is an important distinction as cutters are far less likely to give their best stones to anyone other than GIA -especially in the high dollar ranges in any given size.

Next- I''d also suggest you wait till you come back.
Why burden youseves on what sounds like a fascinating trip?
If you were going to Maimi Beach and had a nice safety deposit box in a good hotel, SURE- but if you''re going to be hoofing it to exotic locales, it might be smart to travel light on the $10K rings.

I hate to cost anyone a quick sale, but to me it sounds like waiting till you return makes the most sense.

PS- I hope I have not overstepped my bounds here-
Buy when you want- but for sure- If you are spending $10K on a 1.50 Princess Cut - GET A GIA REPORT

 

[widget]

Hi, Matthew...

I just had to jump in here...pretty exciting times for you, I''d say!! Buying an engagement ring and taking an around the word trip!! Wow!

Sounds to me like you''re going to miss the "holiday diamond shopping madnesss" regardless of when you decide to buy the diamond!

Best wishes to you, and good luck in your diamond quest..

widget

BTW, I sure would think twice about taking such an important and valuable treasure with me on an around-the-world trek!

 

[kenny]

David, sure a stone with a GIA report is more desireable than one sent to EGL, and it is attainable with this budget.

But why not recommend princess cuts that meet the new AGS 0 standards?

Didn't AGS just release their new light-performance-based reports for princess cuts?
And aren't the AGS 0 specs tighter than GIA's best classification of Excellent?

Correct me if i'm wrong or oversimplifying, please.
Do you not approve of AGS's new standards for princess cuts?

Or is it that a new AGS 0 1.5 ct. princess, being more select, will above this budget?
If I had training and years of experience I would trust my ability to find a GIA princess that is the cream of the crop.
Since I don't, I tend to want to walk straight to the new AGS 0 princess stones.

Or perhaps the new AGS 0s are too new and there are few of them in the pipeline now.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Good point Kenny- I shoul not have left out AGS.
As you also point out, there''s not a lot of such stones in the pipeline.

Personally, I am not an advcoate of correlating "light performance" with beauty in diamonds.
Bujt certainly there are people who do go for such things.

 

[kenny]

David wrote:
"Personally, I am not an advocate of correlating "light performance" with beauty in diamonds.
But certainly there are people who do go for such things. "

David it's tough for us customers to buy over the Internet.
We don't have years of experience.
We don't even get to see the dang stones.

We cling to scraps of information.
Photos.
The 4 Cs.
HCAs
H+A images.
Idealscope photos of light return.
Gemex
Isee2
Sarin - OGI
Selecting GIA over EGL. (As you advocated here.)
Selecting AGS over GIA. (As you seem to not advocate here.)
Anything that will help us pick the needle from the haystack is welcome.

Based on your quote AGS just wasted a ton of money, and is misleading a bunch of customers.
Please clarify for me.

 

[Regular Guy]

Matthew,

Taking advantage of the new AGS0, what I would call this is pretty dang close, given your budget.

Forgetting the budget, and going 50% higher, diamondexpert has another one a bit closer to your specs. But, if SI 1 could work for you, and you can go down just a tenth of a carat, do check it out.

David,

Given the recent discussion about sitting in the B&M dealer''s shoes, I also applaud your "sticking your neck out here."

And, with guillotine firmly in grasp, note, where you say:

"Personally, I am not an advocate of correlating "light performance" with beauty in diamonds.
But certainly there are people who do go for such things."

I think I''m one of those people, where it is pretty clear that it is the light performance that "sends me."

Can you paraphrase what does it for you?

Regards,

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Hey Everyone!
" Light Performance", to me- would be what you see behind a concert- some sort of screen showing images maybe.

In diamonds, after having looked at many AGS0 cut graded diamonds, and Ideal Cut Diamonds and Hearts on Fire and Hearts and arrows - and a lot of diamonds that were "alomst" ideal cut diamonds, I like the look of diamonds with tables considered in the "ideal" range- I recognize thier beauty. But my preference is stones with slightly larger tables- like 60% in a round, or in princess cuts, up to 75%- it makes for a lot of sparkle. I prefer this look- "light return" measuring machines apparently do not.
Now, who should I believe, a reliable machine, or my lying eyes?....heheheh

Of course each stone must be judged on it''s own merit.


Personally, I LOVE the stone of Wink''s posted.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

So Ira- am I getting "guilotined"?

 

[wiesemc]

This post wasn''t all for not, but she''s changed her mind!

I took her shopping yesterday. It was the time for her to agree with the Princess...one last time. She''s mentioned it for two years. But...she''s never saw a square emerald or Asscher before. There was this beautiful cut of a SE that stunned us both.

Princess no longer does it for her. So I thank everyone for helping me ALMOST buy a Princess. I''ve got to start another post soon. More to come. Thank you!

Matthew

 

[Regular Guy]

Matthew, looking forward to hearing from you.

David, only today saw that you responded to my post and asked about your guillotinability...sorry, though I did set up the phrase, I am not so sharp as to be able to do this.

But, going back to original question to you: "Can you paraphrase what does it for you (if it is not light performance?), and to which you replied...

Date: 7/19/2005 3:39:59 PM
Author: diamondsbylauren
Hey Everyone!
'' Light Performance'', to me- would be what you see behind a concert- some sort of screen showing images maybe.

In diamonds, after having looked at many AGS0 cut graded diamonds, and Ideal Cut Diamonds and Hearts on Fire and Hearts and arrows - and a lot of diamonds that were ''alomst'' ideal cut diamonds,I like the look of diamonds with tables considered in the ''ideal'' range- I recognize thier beauty. But my preference is stones with slightly larger tables- like 60% in a round, or in princess cuts, up to 75%- it makes for a lot of sparkle. I prefer this look- ''light return'' measuring machines apparently do not.
Now, who should I believe, a reliable machine, or my lying eyes?....heheheh

A related post may have closed this topic...so I am not explicitly trying to extend it (indeed, I have no personal critical abilities to do so), but it may or may not be helpful to return to the initial point.

Despite the criticism of the phase "light performance," when you try to describe the "basis" upon which you might prefer 60/60, rather than engendering a different criteria, you return to discussing them as having "a lot of sparkle." If it is actually the "sparkle" that does it for you, the question of who you should believe, a machine, or your "lying eyes...," while reasonable (chess masters would select themselves over a machine, generally), bringing an objective measuring device where everybody looks together, reads the same output, and nobody''s eyes in particular have to be relied upon at all....this is a good thing to work towards, it would seem...whether or not there is agreement that such a device exists today or not.

With regards,

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Whew! Still have my head!

Ira- the problem with trying to standardize light return results to indicate beauty is that different people find different things beautiful- for example- every one of the machines I''ve seen rates a 60/60 below an "Ideal" cut.
Now, I am totally familiar with the way a well cut ideal stone looks, as well as the look of a well cut 60/60.
I prefer the 60/60.
I''m not saying YOU''RE wrong- or anyone else who loves ideal cuts.
Why then, am I wrong?

 

[belle]

Date: 7/25/2005 2:11:09 PM
Author: diamondsbylauren
Whew! Still have my head!

Ira- the problem with trying to standardize light return results to indicate beauty is that different people find different things beautiful- for example- every one of the machines I''ve seen rates a 60/60 below an ''Ideal'' cut.
Now, I am totally familiar with the way a well cut ideal stone looks, as well as the look of a well cut 60/60.
I prefer the 60/60.
I''m not saying YOU''RE wrong- or anyone else who loves ideal cuts.
Why then, am I wrong?

david,
what makes a stone, any stone beautiful in your eyes? please ''splain.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Hey Belle- Thanks for asking!

Of course the answer is really not one I can simply explain in a sentance or two.

There''s so many types of diamonds, and so many variations.

For example, a fancy intense yellow radiant would score horribly on these machines- obviously a yellow diamond wil return less light to a machine then a colorless stone-so what?

Since we''re talking about round diamonds, I love the brighter face of a 60/60.
The 60% table lets in a lot more light than an ideal sized ( 56% for example) table.
This is visible without a loupe.
When I look at a well cut H&A, or ideal cut- I find the table size tends to focus the Light more, giving a really intense fire and sparkle- possibly why you get better results form a machine- while a 60% table is less focused, yet throws around more light in a wider pattern.

Again- both are lovely when well cut- I simply prefer the look of the 60% table.