Burma No-Heat Sapphire - How Big a Deal is Pedigree???

[Efleon]

Hi All,
I’ve studied and studied gemstones and arrived at the point where I feel that the provenance of a stone is almost as important as the way it performs.
I’m wondering if anyone else has these “mind clean” requirements for their stones?
I recently came across a 2 carat antique Burmese No-heat No-treatment antique sapphire. GIA certified.
I know!!!!!
If all those things were said in the same sentence, most PS-ers would feel faint!!!
However, the double cabochon stone itself shows almost no blue at all and instead blacks out on the hand.
It’s still absolutely charming. And I am repeatedly drawn to it perhaps just for the delightful understated nature of it.
Just wondering if the spectacular specs on this piece outweigh the visual performance for anyone?????

 

[pokerface]

I can see why you are drawn to it - I have an album on my iphone called "perfect proportions" and this ring would fit right in! My concern here is that you'd be paying a premium for specs without the benefit of the traditional eye appeal of the stone. Is it worth it? Only you can say! You're never going to come across the same piece again, but presumably there is a limit to how much one is willing to spend on a virtually black stone.

 

[Rfisher]

I see the charm in this ring. But mostly it’s overall aesthetic- not the sapphire solely itself.
i would not pay a hefty premium for the pedigree it has though, because it doesn’t have ‘the look’ of what the report may be trying to entice someone on.

I feel the same about a no report /or moderate treated stone with a report. If it looks really pretty to my eye and I feel it’s priced fair for what it is - I don’t mind it’s pedigree or lack of.

im thankful i just don’t feel the compulsion to own unheated/low heat /certain locale lab reports. I don’t need a clean mind to enjoy the beauty.

replacing what I currently own with high pedigree (and much much higher prices) specimens just wouldn’t increase my enjoyment of those items proportionally.
blasphemy.

so anyone who ever reads my opinions they asked for on PS should really be directed back to this confessional post for perspective - HA!

 

[Efleon]

I can see why you are drawn to it - I have an album on my iphone called "perfect proportions" and this ring would fit right in! My concern here is that you'd be paying a premium for specs without the benefit of the traditional eye appeal of the stone. Is it worth it? Only you can say! You're never going to come across the same piece again, but presumably there is a limit to how much one is willing to spend on a virtually black stone.

I see the charm in this ring. But mostly it’s overall aesthetic- not the sapphire solely itself.
i would not pay a hefty premium for the pedigree it has though, because it doesn’t have ‘the look’ of what the report may be trying to entice someone on.

I feel the same about a no report /or moderate treated stone with a report. If it looks really pretty to my eye and I feel it’s priced fair for what it is - I don’t mind it’s pedigree or lack of.

im thankful i just don’t feel the compulsion to own unheated/low heat /certain locale lab reports. I don’t need a clean mind to enjoy the beauty.

replacing what I currently own with high pedigree (and much much higher prices) specimens just wouldn’t increase my enjoyment of those items proportionally.
blasphemy.

so anyone who ever reads my opinions they asked for on PS should really be directed back to this confessional post for perspective - HA!

Thanks to both of you pros for chiming right in. You are both echoing what I think I already knew.
Look. I have a lot of bling. No sense denying it.
So on this purchase I’ve turned my attention to specs and what speaks to me.
I’m glad you guys see what I see which is just pure charm.
I laugh because this impeccable pedigreed over 120 year old Burma stone is trying her hardest to appear to be a $5 onyx!!!!!
Just that feat is worth it for me

 

[Ionysis]

Geographic origin and no heat status only become significantly relevant (in terms of “value”) when the stone is otherwise ideal or near ideal in colour, cut and clarity. A black opaque disc is going to be worth no more if it’s from Burma and unheated and if someone is trying to charge you a premium for either of those things for this stone I’d run not walk.

 

[Ionysis]

Having said that, if this is priced appropriately I’d snap it up as it’s a totally beautiful ring!

 

[chrono]

I laugh because this impeccable pedigreed over 120 year old Burma stone is trying her hardest to appear to be a $5 onyx!!!!!

I feel this way too. Unfortunately, it has no charm for me. If given to me for free, I'd toss the center stone and replace it with something more appealing to my eye.

 

[Efleon]

Geographic origin and no heat status only become significantly relevant (in terms of “value”) when the stone is otherwise ideal or near ideal in colour, cut and clarity. A black opaque disc is going to be worth no more if it’s from Burma and unheated and if someone is trying to charge you a premium for either of those things for this stone I’d run not walk.

Having said that, if this is priced appropriately I’d snap it up as it’s a totally beautiful ring!

I feel this way too. Unfortunately, it has no charm for me. If given to me for free, I'd toss the center stone and replace it with something more appealing to my eye.

I totally get it!!!
Thank you both for articulating it so well.
This is why PS is so invaluable.

 

[elizat]

I think the setting is pretty.

However, for me, the stone can have perfect specifications but if it's not attractive, that matters not. I do not find that stone attractive at all.

If the price of the ring with the stone included is essentially the cost of what the setting would be with the side diamonds, then I would consider it a fair price. But as to the centerstone, I put little value on it even with the information about it, because I just find it to be not attractive.

 

[Efleon]

Having said that, if this is priced appropriately I’d snap it up as it’s a totally beautiful ring!

Agreed @lonysis but my problem is I can’t find a comp that would give me an inkling of what an appropriate price would be!!!!

 

[Ionysis]

Agreed @lonysis but my problem is I can’t find a comp that would give me an inkling of what an appropriate price would be!!!!

Good point!

I honestly would go with what a poster above said - the centre stone itself is really not an expensive gem. So price the ring based on the gold, diamonds and antiquity value not focussing on the sapphire.

 

[LD]

I have to respectfully disagree. For me it’s the stone itself and how it performs. Some seriously ugly gems are from a premium location and aren’t heated or treated. I really like your ring but if it had a premium attached because of its locality etc I would have passed. It’s interesting because we all have our own ideas as to what we want and don’t want and there are no right of wrongs x

 

[fredflintstone]

No. Just no.

 

[fredflintstone]

Top color untreated blue Burma's do bring a premium over all blue Sapphire origins but Kashmir.


But not this one...

 

[prosecutrix]

I think even if it were Kashmir it would be a hard pass for me. I agree with ionysis’s sentiments.

 

[Efleon]

I’m loving everyone’s input. Thank you!
So I’m mulling this interesting piece over and over. I don’t have the ring with me and I didn’t buy it so I’m just thinking about it as the kids play in the last few days of summer.
And the following scenario just occurred to me.
The ring is clearly Victorian. So I started thinking could it be possible that it’s a mourning ring? Deliberately chosen to be as dark as possible???
Whoever owned it wanted the “best” but also wanted it quiet and discreet!???
Just a thought…..

 

[T L]

I would only pay a premium for a coveted location if the gem lived up to the hype. If you love it, then pay a fair price for a very dark, almost black sapphire, with no Burns premium.

 

[ringo865]

Ugh, no. Now the sapphire (?) in your avatar… yes

 

[elizat]

I’m loving everyone’s input. Thank you!
So I’m mulling this interesting piece over and over. I don’t have the ring with me and I didn’t buy it so I’m just thinking about it as the kids play in the last few days of summer.
And the following scenario just occurred to me.
The ring is clearly Victorian. So I started thinking could it be possible that it’s a mourning ring? Deliberately chosen to be as dark as possible???
Whoever owned it wanted the “best” but also wanted it quiet and discreet!???
Just a thought…..

I am such a wet blanket on the ring. I'm sorry! But, I think we are probably romanticizing the ring as a mourning ring. I mean, maybe? But I feel it's unlikely and definitely not worth the premium that comes with mourning jewelry.

 

[Efleon]

Ugh, no. Now the sapphire (?) in your avatar… yes

I know, right!!
I fell in love with it the second I laid eyes on it. 4.5 carats of pure cornflower blue sapphire. GIA certified but no origin requested. But I didn’t care. Love at first sight is simple.

 

[Efleon]

I am such a wet blanket on the ring. I'm sorry! But, I think we are probably romanticizing the ring as a mourning ring. I mean, maybe? But I feel it's unlikely and definitely not worth the premium that comes with mourning jewelry.

Your not a wet blanket at all.
I’m just so grateful for everyone’s authentic honest opinion.
Sometimes we can overthink things or try to make things something they are not.
When that happens I’m always so grateful that PS-ers are here to screw my head back on straight!

 

[voce]

@Efleon GIA specs don't really translate to price. You'll need a full grazing report where quality of color and clarity are graded in a standard format. GIA for colored stones, doesn't account for quality of color or clarity.

For reference, this is my Burmese origin 2ct blue sapphire in a close to ideal color. The stone itself cost me only $999 since it had a non-surface-reaching and non-distracting (to me) inclusion.

 

[voce]

Maybe this picture is better because not as blurred?

 

[Efleon]

Maybe this picture is better because not as blurred?

Just gorgeous.
That color!!!!

 

[voce]

Just gorgeous.
That color!!!!

Thank you! This in my mind is what a Burmese sapphire should look like, at least the blue Burmese sapphire. The inclusion is visible if you zoom in around the 8 o'clock position.

 

[Efleon]

Thank you! This in my mind is what a Burmese sapphire should look like, at least the blue Burmese sapphire. The inclusion is visible if you zoom in around the 8 o'clock position.

I wouldn’t care a whit about an inclusion with that color!
Just a great example of Burmese luscious-ness

 

[voce]

I wouldn’t care a whit about an inclusion with that color!
Just a great example of Burmese luscious-ness

I love non-distracting inclusions as they help keep some gems affordable for me!

 

[icy_jade]

Recall reading that Burmese sapphires are known for their royal blue color. If a sapphire is errrrr… black, then Burmese or not I would say stay away.

 

[leslie1956]

Maybe this picture is better because not as blurred?

Love the sapphire color!

 

[LilAlex]

Agree with all of the above.

It's often a fine line how much emphasis to place on origin -- but this one is nowhere near that line. It looks like an '80s Thai sapphire. Was over there in that era and saw shops full of "the darker the better" stones that were indistinguishable from onyx.

Hard, hard pass. If the ring in your avatar is not Burma -- and it is really beautiful and you clearly have the resources to make some dreams come true -- I would not try to "round out the collection" with an unappealing Burma.