Brits, need a flat in NW London: where should I go online to apartment shop?

[gwendolyn]

We are looking to live in NW London (or just outside, if there''s public transport into the city), if that makes a difference, although any sort of website that''s got flat info for London would be fantastic. Thank you!!

 

[Rhea]

NW London!! I''m jealous.

I always check out www.rightmove.co.uk because it seems to have lots of different estate agents that list on it. I hear www.gumtree.com is good as well, but I don''t find it very easy to use. There''s another one that I can''t think of...maybe www.loot.com. I''ve only checked these out for my area of London but it may be a jumping off point for NW.

 

[gwendolyn]

The teaching job I just got is in North Harrow, and although I don''t think J and I will be able to afford to live there, I''d like to check out our options to make sure! Thank you so much for the links, Addy--you are a doll!

 

[Octavia]

Oh, Gwen, you got the job!! Congratulations!!! I''m so happy for you and J, you must be over the moon right now

 

[Pandora II]

There are a load of websites that I am using for house hunting - they all do rentals as well.

Try findaproperty.com, rightmove.co.uk, primelocation.com

Keep well away from Foxtons!

Gumtree and other sites of the sort aren''t bad either. Try googling the area code and see what comes up.

I have a friend in Harrow, so I''ll see if I can get any hints from her.

 

[Rhea]

Gwen, may I hi-jack your thread for a sec? Why did you dissertation date move up?

 

[gwendolyn]

Octavia, thank you so much, my dear! I have gotten the job, and I am so so SO excited about it!!!!

Pandora, dearest, thank you so much for the links! I am very excited to be moving to the London area (although I am still slightly intimidated by how expensive it may be). We will definitely have to get together at some point to go play in a pool of diamonds.

Addy, I have an evil supervisor who told me last week, "Gwen, you need to relax! Stop stressing so much! Oh, and I want your thesis ready to be turned in a week early--has to be done by the 6th since I am leaving the country and will be out of touch after that." Yeah, THAT'S relaxing news!

Ok, since my school is in North Harrow, I'm looking at places in the Watford area because (I think) the Euston train goes out to Watford Junction (which I am guessing but don't know for sure is in Watford), and the prices are less expensive out there.

How do council taxes work, though? Are those local taxes? I am trying to figure out in advance what the prices for everything will be compared to my salary so I know J and I will be able to afford it. I've already worked out what I will be paying for my income tax, but local taxes are still a mystery to me.

We only want a 1 bedroom apartment, don't care how small, we just want it to be us--no shared housing. Looks like prices for flats in the Watford area (South Oxhey) are around £660/month, which should work just fine (and be 2/3-1/2 the cost of living in Harrow itself, looks like?).

 

[Maisie]

Council tax is what you pay to the local council for things like refuse removal, fire service and the ambulance service. The council bills you for a year and you can either pay monthly or all in one go. Be careful if you miss an installment though - they might make you pay the balance immediately!

There are different bands to determine how much you pay. It will depend on the value of the property that you rent. Your landlord should be able to advise you.

 

[Pandora II]

Be sure to ask about ground rent and service charges as well if it''s not a freehold property.

 

[Rhea]

Our council tax was more expensive than I thought it would be. The bands in our council are A (lowest) to G (highest). We''re in band b and pay around £1,050/year. Our rent is only £550 so council tax is almost the cost of an extra two months of rent a year. It goes up on the 1st of April each year by about 2.5-3.5%.

 

[gwendolyn]

Ok, so if the council tax is due yearly (if we don't pay in installments), does that mean it would be due at the start of the lease? So, we'd need the first month's rent, security deposit, and council tax money (if we paid yearly) at the start of the lease?

I looked up freehold properties so I have some idea what that means. I will have to ask about ground rent, because I can be charged not only for the flat I will be renting, but for the dirt it's built upon as well? That isn't just part of the monthly rent for the apartment?

What exactly are 'service charges?' What sort of service? Are there any other hidden (or perhaps 'culturally understood' is a better way of saying that) costs/fees/taxes I should know about? I don't remember it being this complicated when I rented in Maryland...

 

[gwendolyn]

Also, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing that there's going to be a noticeable price difference between what is technically London and what is technically not, correct? Since my school is in North Harrow, I've been looking at places like Watford and South Oxhey that are technically in Hertfordshire, not London, in hopes that they will be less expensive across the board. Is this assumption correct? I am guessing public transport could get more complicated if we're farther away, but I'd rather have a longer commute than a smaller, more expensive place to live.

Sorry, guess that means the title is misleading, and should be "need a flat NEAR NW London, preferably just over the county line."

 

[Rhea]

I will now show my vulgar American side and talk a bit of money.

I live in Essex, which is outside of Central London (zone 1) and outside of London in general (rough boundary of the M25 ring road). There are 32 boroughs in London, each of them will have different council tax.

We started our lease in very early April so I have no clue how it works if you start your lease later than that in the year. Our council tax is divided into 1 payment of whatever it was and then 9 more payments of £109/month. We finish paying on 1 Feb of each year. It is pro-rated if you move in later in the year but I'm not exactly sure how. When we move before 1 April we will let the council know and stop paying for that year. Eventually, around 4-6 weeks later, they will refund us for the part of the year that we haven't been at the house. Each council will work differently. Council charges will include the cost of trash and recycle pick-up, street cleaners, libraries, etc. Our estate agent wrote to the all the local places, gas, electric, council for tax, water with the date we moved in and any meter readings. That's when we started getting a bill from the council. It was about 2-3 week after we moved in and were were given about 14 days to make the first council tax payment.

I have no clue about ground rent. Service charges for rent may include if you live in a block of flats and have a porter, or maintenance that needs to be done on the building. As far as other fees, in the US when I had a reference/credit check it never seemed like much money. Over here we paid around £160 and then another £55/year if we live in the same flat to have it re-checked. I found a couple of places that charged a cleaning fee of around £100 when we moved out no matter if we cleaned it ourselves or not. Deposit is normal around one to one and a half months rent. We negotiated the price of our rent a bit and also asked for a 6 month break clause. 6 months into the lease we can give our landlord 1 month or she can give us 2 months notice. We wanted the option in case it didn't work out. Not everyone was willing to give us the break in the lease for an out. Even though we've now signed 3 leases here we've always asked for that clause.

I find the transport to be the hardest thing. In my area of Essex, if I go from my local train station I would pay £2,850/year for a season ticket. Because of this, to save money, I go from a Zone 6 station and pay roughly £1,750/year. Not much savings maybe but the commute time also makes a difference for me (over 2 hours compared to roughly 90 minutes). Depending on where I live in London I could spend much less on travel, have a shorter commute, and the savings on travel would be eaten up by rent prices. To me, this is worth it. I want a shorter commute. I quickly found out that living outside of London was a whole series of cost analysis but I'm not in a position to change it quite yet.

Wow, that was long. I know you have a lot of questions. Hopefully one of the other Londoners will chime in with how thing work around them!

 

[star sparkle]

FI lived in Central London for a few years, so I''ll try to glean some info out of him when he gets home from work today.

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 6/22/2008 12:07:25 PM
Author: Addy
I will now show my vulgar American side and talk a bit of money.

Good! Thank you! I need to know what I''m getting into here.

I live in Essex, which is outside of Central London (zone 1) and outside of London in general (rough boundary of the M25 ring road). There are 32 boroughs in London, each of them will have different council tax.

We started our lease in very early April so I have no clue how it works if you start your lease later than that in the year. Our council tax is divided into 1 payment of whatever it was and then 9 more payments of £109/month. We finish paying on 1 Feb of each year. It is pro-rated if you move in later in the year but I''m not exactly sure how. When we move before 1 April we will let the council know and stop paying for that year. Eventually, around 4-6 weeks later, they will refund us for the part of the year that we haven''t been at the house. Each council will work differently. Council charges will include the cost of trash and recycle pick-up, street cleaners, libraries, etc. Our estate agent wrote to the all the local places, gas, electric, council for tax, water with the date we moved in and any meter readings. That''s when we started getting a bill from the council. It was about 2-3 week after we moved in and were were given about 14 days to make the first council tax payment.

Ok, that sounds reasonable.

I have no clue about ground rent. Service charges for rent may include if you live in a block of flats and have a porter, or maintenance that needs to be done on the building. As far as other fees, in the US when I had a reference/credit check it never seemed like much money. Over here we paid around £160 and then another £55/year if we live in the same flat to have it re-checked. I found a couple of places that charged a cleaning fee of around £100 when we moved out no matter if we cleaned it ourselves or not. Deposit is normal around one to one and a half months rent. We negotiated the price of our rent a bit and also asked for a 6 month break clause. 6 months into the lease we can give our landlord 1 month or she can give us 2 months notice. We wanted the option in case it didn''t work out. Not everyone was willing to give us the break in the lease for an out. Even though we''ve now signed 3 leases here we''ve always asked for that clause.

You have to get your credit re-checked every time you renew, and you have to pay an additional £55/year for that? Bleh, that''s...unusual. And slightly criminal.

I find the transport to be the hardest thing. In my area of Essex, if I go from my local train station I would pay £2,850/year for a season ticket. Because of this, to save money, I go from a Zone 6 station and pay roughly £1,750/year. Not much savings maybe but the commute time also makes a difference for me (over 2 hours compared to roughly 90 minutes). Depending on where I live in London I could spend much less on travel, have a shorter commute, and the savings on travel would be eaten up by rent prices. To me, this is worth it. I want a shorter commute. I quickly found out that living outside of London was a whole series of cost analysis but I''m not in a position to change it quite yet.

Ok, I knew transportation wasn''t going to be cheap, but holy cow! Ok, I just looked up the map of which places are in what zones and bookmarked a page that explained what the yearly charges are for different combos. That should help figure out which places really will be less expensive.

Wow, that was long. I know you have a lot of questions. Hopefully one of the other Londoners will chime in with how thing work around them!

Thank you for taking the time to write all of that! I am so used to having my car that it didn''t dawn on me how a year''s worth of public transportation costs could add up.

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 6/22/2008 12:20:42 PM
Author: star sparkle
FI lived in Central London for a few years, so I''ll try to glean some info out of him when he gets home from work today.

Thank you, star sparkle!

 

[Rhea]

Gwen, please share your newly found website for transportation! We''re going to try to move in the fall when we break our lease. We''re trying to very carefully balance a reasonable area in rent (haha!) with transportation costs and commute time. I feel like I need a 2nd degree just to figure all this stuff out sometimes.

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 6/22/2008 12:52:22 PM
Author: Addy
Gwen, please share your newly found website for transportation! We're going to try to move in the fall when we break our lease. We're trying to very carefully balance a reasonable area in rent (haha!) with transportation costs and commute time. I feel like I need a 2nd degree just to figure all this stuff out sometimes.

You and me both! And it's all me, because J detests math.

Here are the list of prices for different zone combos (sorry I can't do a direct link): http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresandtickets/seasontickets/4805.aspx

And the first link listed on here is a pdf of a map of the different zones to see which places fall in what areas: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/search/?keywords=zone+map

 

[Rhea]

Of course, fees will very much depend on your area. I was shocked when they asked me for another £55 when we wanted to renew the lease! I was saving the landlord and estate agent money by them not having to re advertise and show the flat. Everything just so quickly adds up. It makes me miss my very laid-back area of the US sometimes. And don''t even get me started on the council. I''m not sure what we actually pay our £1,050/year for!

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 6/22/2008 1:04:35 PM
Author: Addy
Of course, fees will very much depend on your area. I was shocked when they asked me for another £55 when we wanted to renew the lease! I was saving the landlord and estate agent money by them not having to re advertise and show the flat. Everything just so quickly adds up. It makes me miss my very laid-back area of the US sometimes. And don''t even get me started on the council. I''m not sure what we actually pay our £1,050/year for!

Hahah! Yeah, I can imagine. And I know things are going to add up quickly, so I''m trying my best to not get blindsided, but I know I won''t be able to plan for everything. I realize this is probably not possible, but I would LOVE to be able to find somewhere to live where my salary pays all the bills so what J makes can be put into savings, but considering we don''t want shared housing, it may be impossible. London isn''t the best place in the world to be trying to save!

 

[Indira-London]

Another site you might like to check out is simple2rent.co.uk - its free to tentants AND to landords so that many landlords post here to advertise their rental property rather than pay commission to an estate agents

 

[claireabelle]

Congratulations on landing yourself a job, honey!
I know you were very stressed about it... glad it''s working out for you. So this means you and J can finally make a bit of a nest? How exciting!

I don''t have much else to say except that I found great apartments/houses on thegumtree.com while I was living in central London. It''s usually private lease arrangements... some letting agents also advertise on there.

Happy house hunting sweets! xx

 

[chizzy1982]

Hi Gwen - congrats on the job!

Don''t think I have any futher info to add, as its all been said!!

Oh just out of interest will either of you two still be studying? As if you are a student you are exempt from paying council tax!

About to threadjack - sorry..... but what the heck was going on in Cambridge on Suicide Sunday......with that girl being arrested for headbutting another girsl and fighting with security?? I went to the St Katharines summer ball a few years ago and saw no sign of jelly wrestling........hmm maybe I was looking in the wrong place!!! Still had an awesome night!!!

 

[gwendolyn]

Indira-London: Thank you so much for that link! I will definitely check it out tonight!

claireabelle: Thanks, sweetie! It was a HUGE source of stress for me, absolutely, because so many things were wrapped up in the uncertainty around getting a job and paying my bills at home. So now that's getting taken care of, and J and I will soon be living together! I am so excited!!!

I have looked a bit on gumtree already but I have only just done a bit of peeking, really. The real search will begin when this thesis is complete. Plus a friend told me that, when apartment searching in London, it's much easier to find things available now then trying to find something that will be available in a couple of months (we would be looking to move in the middle/end of August), so if that's true, it's good that I will be waiting a bit to look as well, I think!

chizzy1982: I have NO IDEA what's going on in the rest of the colleges, except that there is usually some craziness this time of year. The only news I've heard about the May Balls (which oddly all happen in June?) have been from my friends who've gone to them. I've heard they are fabulous parties but I didn't have a chance to go--no money and too much work. But I'm glad you had a chance to go a while back!!! I'll bet it was great--my favourite one that I've heard about so far had giant a slide, a bouncy castle and sumo wrestling costumes--all in gowns and tuxes! Love it.

 

[Pandora II]

If you live in a leasehold property then there is a ''service charge'' that is paid to the management company.

This covers basic maintenance and cleaning of communal areas etc. I think ours is about £700 a year and we just have shared outside space and stairs.

If you live in a block with lifts etc be prepared for a hike in price. The flat we are looking at to buy has a £1,600 a year service charge, but there communal areas are much swisher, plus there are two lifts and underground parking with electronic gates etc. If you have gym/swimming pool/concierge etc it can be in the £2.5k ball park.

If you are renting part of a small house there may not be one at all. It is less likely to find big developments outside London.

For house-hunting, I would look at the transport lines from the school you will be working in and work out from them when looking for accommodation. On the whole it''s cheaper outside London, but that also depends on the surrounding area and their demographics.

If you let me know the rough area where the school is (or nearest tube stop/train station) , I will suggest some good places.

 

[gwendolyn]

The nearest station is Headstone Lane on the Euston/Watford Junction line. I''m slightly concerned about this, because as I was waiting for the train to come after my interview was over, there were signs up saying that, starting in September, there were going to be changes to the route with some closures somewhere on that line. I''d kind of like to know where, since right now I''m looking at finding somewhere a few stops north of Headstone Lane, and have no idea how to get to my school if that line is closed (since it''s on the outskirts, it doesn''t look like there are other trains nearby so I would guess I''d have to figure out the bus network and bus timetables give me a headache).

 

[gwendolyn]

*le bump*

Ok, so I started this post yesterday, but then the power went out, and then again, and again, and again, so I gave up trying to post this update/series of questions until today. It seems better now...(she says like in a horror movie right before the bad stuff happens).

Anyway! I''ll try and make this shorter. I''ve rented apartments in the US before, but not in the UK (last year I lived in student housing). James has not rented here either, nor have his family members, so I need to come to you all for some help and advice, so I know what''s the norm here and what isn''t.

We have basically decided to move to the neighbourhood of South Oxhey. From all we''ve heard and read online (from upmystreet.com), it sounds like a fairly quiet, residential area, reasonable safe (statistically) and more affordable than the surrounding areas (I worked out the figures for rent costs plus transportation costs and this area is the sweet spot). There are a few properties available, which James and I will be viewing on Monday, but before then I''d like to know a few things.

References: how do they work here? In the US, I only ever had to give a contant name and phone number and/or a signed letter from a previous housemate or landlord, saying I was a responsible individual who will pay my bills on time. One of the estate agents here said James and I would have to be vetted by some third party agency at a cost of £125!

Um, seriously? Is this normal?!

Credit check: Maybe no one here can answer this, but I have a good credit history--it''s just all in the US. I have no UK credit history because I am not allowed a credit card until I''ve lived here a year (which will be next month). I have heard that landlords will not consider my US credit history. Will I still be allowed to be on the lease? I have a job lined up; will that account for anything? Will this hurt us in any way?

Additional fees: what is reasonable for the tenant to pay? Administration charges seem to vary considerably, which I why I have been shopping around, but I am afraid of falling in love with a property and then finding out there are some ''surprise'' charges I wasn''t expecting. I spoke with James'' mother about this and she seemed to think it was unreasonable for the tenant to pay any fees at all, and that they were the landlord''s responsibility. What fees, either the amount or name (like ''administration fee'' or ''viewing fee'' or whatever), should we be ready to pay?

Basically, I am worried a bit about getting ripped off because I don''t know how things work here they way I know how things work at home. Any insight you can share would be greatly appreciated!

So exciting!! A bit nerve-wracking, but exciting!!

 

[softly softly]

Gwen, can''t help with info about rentals but just wanted to wish you good luck with your new job and with finding your first place with J - he sounds lovely, as do you and I hope things go well for you both

 

[Krissie]

Congratulations, Gwendolyn! I don''t think I had realized that you and J were moving in together so soon in London - that''s so exciting! I lived in N1 and D lived in Hampstead Heath.

I moved to London having no idea about any neighborhoods so the concept of a council tax was totally foreign to me! Luckily my landlord continued to pay theirs as they wanted to keep their parking space.

I wasn''t assessed any extra fees, but I would be prepared for a landlord to "throw things in" for an extra fee. My flat came furnished (unfurnished flats cost more) but was very bare bones - no nightstand for the bed, etc. They also had a washer/dryer in the flat but said it wasn''t included in the rent (@@), but they''d be willing to bargain and would allow me to keep their w/d for 75 quid extra p.m. What else was I going to do?! In terms of the furniture, they also offered to leave me more, but I decided to just go to Ikea. There''s one in Edmonton.

Finally I know Foxtons are evil, but their website is very comprehensive and I used them to get an idea of the types of properties available in a particular neighborhood. Just be mindful that they charge a markup in most cases! www.foxtons.co.uk.

Good luck!

 

[trinity911]

Hi Gwen

, so you ''re going to be a fellow Londoner!

I''ve been speaking to a colleague who''s just rented a flat in Edgware (more NE London) and they were charged £94 total for reference check, credit history check & admin fees. Can you find out why the agency quoted you £125? Seems a bit steep. As for your credit history being in the US, that might not be a problem as many Americans rent in London but you will need to get a letter from payroll in your new job confirming your salary and contract terms, if you have any. Maybe it might help to have copies of your bank statements for the past 6 or so months to reassure them of your financial stability?

Yes, 3rd party checks on references and credit seems to be the norm for estate or property agents and they will charge. Get a copy of their terms and conditions in writing before asking to view any properties then they can''t spring surprise checks on you. You could possibly get around admin fees by renting from a private landlord - found through Loot.com or local websites.

Good luck! x