biting the bullet

[jcarlylew]

so, i usually refrain from posting serious problems about relationships here, becuase lets face it, Most the time you''re going to get the answer you don''t want, someone might offend you, or even worse, someone might tell you to leave the man that you''ve falling in love with.
But, my time has come, and i need some help. So, I''ll take words of wisdom, kindly please!

We are not the worlds best financial planners. in fact, we usually spend outside our means and struggle at the end of the month. this is something that we''re both working on. Fortunately we are young (enough), and only have a puppy to rely on us and have time to fix it now! However, lately, i feel that E''s spending is out of control, and the biggest step of us not getting engaged is the fact that though he makes more than enough money, he cannot save a dime. so the irrational (or is is rational?) side of me says that this is a huge warning sign that he doesn''t want to get married. of course that then is usually followed by a side comment from a close friend who says that he''s looking forward to it.
color me confused.

So, really its a two part question -
1 - how do i help him control his spending, and start focusing on saving for important things, rather than just blow money when he has it?
2 - is this really a sign of something deeper, or is it maybe just my own fears (cold feet) acting out?

 

[princesss]

You said both of you are bad at this, so here''s the approach I would take:

1) Talk to him. Make it clear that it''s a big concern for you, and that you both need to reign in the spending and work on saving money.

2) Recognize he might get annoyed because you seem concerned that him overspending is a bad sign, but you doing it is normal. This is why you attack it together. Learn to manage your money together. Learn to manage your own individual accounts so that when you''re married you''re good to go, but right now both of you need to focus on your own financial situation. Pay down debt, live on bare bones groceries and realize that stuff you want isn''t necessary to survival (I''m not as good at that as I want to be, either, but it''s important).

You can tackle this, but it''s a huge thing and defiinitely needs to be taken care of before getting engaged.

 

[Nomsdeplume]

I know exactly how you feel! I was also concerned about my bf''s spending habits. I didn''t really know how to approach it and it was driving me NUTS! I knew that it was the main reason engagement wasn''t even an option anymore and that I couldn''t be with a man like that forever anyway.
But eventually I just had to sit him down and talk to him about it. I told him that it''s a proven fact (it is) that most couples break up or get divorced due to financial issues.
I told him that I didn''t want to be one of those couples, but that unless he made some changes I didn''t see any other outcome.

So he was REALLY angry and offended BUT... a few days later he was already making noticable changes!

You love him. If he loves you, he will take it to heart. Just talk to him and see what happens.

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 5/26/2009 8:57:05 AM
Author:jcarlylew

1 - how do i help him control his spending, and start focusing on saving for important things, rather than just blow money when he has it?

You can only help as much as he wants the help. The problem really is that if you don''t have joint accounts, there isn''t much you can do in terms of controlling/helping his spending habits. You can only make suggestions. If he wants to go out to eat at a restaurant, convince him instead to go with you to the grocery store and cook something at home. If he wants to make a large purchase that you are aware of, then guide him to discount places like ebay to show him that he can get these things for cheaper. Things of that nature. When we had separate accounts, I tried to put us both on a budget but it was kind of weird to tell him what to do with his money. Now that we have a joint account, it''s easier (I''m not suggesting this at all BTW).

Date: 5/26/2009 8:57:05 AM
Author:jcarlylew
2 - is this really a sign of something deeper, or is it maybe just my own fears (cold feet) acting out?

You know, I''m going to say that this is a sign of something deeper but not cold feet. Having trouble controlling your finances is a serious issue. The good thing though is that you are committed to not allowing this to bring you down and if you can get him on the same page, then you''ll be fine. But its going to take some work and a lot of patience on your part.

 

[Lauren8211]

Wish I had some awesome advice for you, but I''m in the same boat!

It''s not a deal breaker, as long as you guys can talk about it and both work together.

Everyone has issues to work out, just make sure you''re on the right track before you start combining finances, if you do plan to do that!

 

[megumic]

This is a hard issue, and I can imagine many couples face similar situations. I definitely wouldn''t take it as a sign of something more, but I would work on spending habits with him. From what I understand, money is the #1 reason couples fight and have problems, and understandably many people have a hard time controlling spending.

Maybe try a spending challenge - keep track of what you spend in a day, or a week. Maybe commit to spending money only on necessities for one week. Try something that will give him a reason to pay attention to his habits.

I know for us, we control our spending for the very reason that FF does make more than we need and to us, that''s an excuse to save, save, save. Although we like nice things, enjoy eating out, vacations, etc. we work hard to do it smart and insist on having a savings cushion of at least 6 months. We''ve actually had a set amount pulled from his checking account into savings each time a pay check hits. Although the return interest on the savings account is low, we''ve seen how our savings has built up over the months and we are so proud to have a financial cushion if something does go wrong. We even empty our change each day into a bowl and when it''s full, we cash it in.

I''d say set some goals together for saving and see how it goes. I haven''t used it, but just read an article in NYT about www.mint.com that helps people save. Also, check out some books by Suze Orman - she has a lot of great advice. I''d also suggest learning about your FICO scores - if yours turn out to be less than stellar, maybe make the goal to raise your FICO.

Good luck!

 

[jcarlylew]

thank you all for your advice, i really do appreciate it. and while i don''t want anyone in the same situation, it is refreshing to hear i am not the only one!
I have tried a couple times with E about money - balancing our books, watching his spending, setting up goals, and to date, they just do not seem to work. I am almost at the point where i want to give him an allowance. fiery - you are 100% right that he will not fix it until he wants to. We do have joint accounts, but only bill (rent, joined expenses) money goes into there.


In the next two months i will be taking a job that will cut back my pay quite a bit. So once our vacation is over, we''re going over all of our bills, all of mine, to see where we stand, and so he truly understands how much he should be putting away.

 

[lulu]

I think it''s best to stress the positives of saving money. When we met I was a real spender and my husband was a saver. He convinced me that we should save my entire salary by telling me that I''d be able to retire early. (the carrot). It was hard. I would''ve spent the money on jewelry and cars. But he was right. I retired at 52 and will never need to work again.

At your age it''s a lot harder to envision so far into the future, but it sure comes up quickly. Does he have a big dream for the future you can focus on-like a house?

 

[sctsbride09]

Ditto Lulu. If there is something to look forward to (home, early retirement etc), it makes saving that much more appealing. We try to think of it as, we are young right now (26,27) so we can do without certain things. We''d rather be comfortable enough to retire early. Making a complete list of your monthly expenses will help you decide where you should/can cut back. Like if your spending too much on eating out, you would''nt believe how much you can save eating at home. When I first met my DH he used to eat sushi out like 6 times a month, that adds up quick!! So, we started making it at home together and it has turned into a fun date night. Find ways to make budgeting fun for you guys, and you''ll learn to automatically do it. Sorry my post is kinda long, I just think its so important for couples to budget and save. My dh and I know MANY people who spend every last dollar (and some) of their paychecks, and they''ve been really hurt by this financial situation right now. Always have a backup plan for rain, even if the forecast says sunshine.

 

[jcarlylew]

Date: 5/26/2009 10:26:25 AM
Author: lulu
I think it''s best to stress the positives of saving money. When we met I was a real spender and my husband was a saver. He convinced me that we should save my entire salary by telling me that I''d be able to retire early. (the carrot). It was hard. I would''ve spent the money on jewelry and cars. But he was right. I retired at 52 and will never need to work again.


At your age it''s a lot harder to envision so far into the future, but it sure comes up quickly. Does he have a big dream for the future you can focus on-like a house?

lulu - thank you for your advice!
Yes he does have goals/dreams that he thinks are achievable in one year (like buying a house). I think maybe sitting down with an accounting counselor of some sort might shock him into reality.

 

[Clairitek]

Date: 5/26/2009 10:26:25 AM
Author: lulu
I think it''s best to stress the positives of saving money. When we met I was a real spender and my husband was a saver. He convinced me that we should save my entire salary by telling me that I''d be able to retire early. (the carrot). It was hard. I would''ve spent the money on jewelry and cars. But he was right. I retired at 52 and will never need to work again.

At your age it''s a lot harder to envision so far into the future, but it sure comes up quickly. Does he have a big dream for the future you can focus on-like a house?

WOW. Retired at 52 these days is AMAZING. Kudos to you and your DH for being so smart with your money.

I am about to get married in just over 3 weeks and FI and I are similar to lulu. I am the spender and he is the saver. What has gotten me in check about my spending is the fact that I would be really embarrassed if, once we''re married, FI saw a huge credit card bill of mine. I will have my cc''s paid down by the time I walk down the aisle and it has taken me a few months on my piddly grad student salary to do it. My point of this story is that embarrassment about my spending is what has gotten me in check.

Anyways, to avoid a threadjack...

Jcarlylew- Have you ever heard of the website Mint? I''ve found it do be a very useful tool for tracking spending. You can categorize your spending, set budgets, and link up your accounts to the website. It downloads activity and then you can see all at once where your money is going. Maybe this sort of thing might give E the wake-up call he needs to see that he isn''t being wise with his money. I know you are probably telling him that but seeing it for himself in the numbers on a computer screen might be easier for him to pay attention to.

 

[jcarlylew]

C-tek,
thanks for the suggestion. i might do that. unfortunately E is not computer savy. but thats just making another excuse, right? time to put on the big kid pants.

 

[purrfectpear]

To answer part of your concerns, I don''t think it''s a sign that he doesn''t want to marry you. That''s the good news.

The bad news is that it IS a sign that he isn''t ready to marry anyone (or at least anyone who doesn''t want to deal with being over their head in debt).

You didn''t mention how old he is, but as long as he''s overspending on toys and stuff, he''s acting like a young guy with no plans for the future. It''s really easy to save money. You just pay yourself BEFORE you have a chance to spend. Almost everyone has direct deposit these days. Have him set up a savings account and have a predetermined amount sent to that account every pay period. He can start small (like $50 or $100) and see how that goes, and then bump it up as he gets used to having less to spend. If he''s charging things on credit and not paying in full every month then it''s pointless, because he''ll just charge more. He needs to get on a cash basis.

Good luck

 

[sammyj]

Date: 5/26/2009 1:01:23 PM
Author: purrfectpear
To answer part of your concerns, I don''t think it''s a sign that he doesn''t want to marry you. That''s the good news.

The bad news is that it IS a sign that he isn''t ready to marry anyone (or at least anyone who doesn''t want to deal with being over their head in debt).

You didn''t mention how old he is, but as long as he''s overspending on toys and stuff, he''s acting like a young guy with no plans for the future. It''s really easy to save money. You just pay yourself BEFORE you have a chance to spend. Almost everyone has direct deposit these days. Have him set up a savings account and have a predetermined amount sent to that account every pay period. He can start small (like $50 or $100) and see how that goes, and then bump it up as he gets used to having less to spend. If he''s charging things on credit and not paying in full every month then it''s pointless, because he''ll just charge more. He needs to get on a cash basis.

Good luck

We seem to be focused on your BF''s spending habits but we really don''t know too much about his saving habits...it almost seems like an afterthought.

With the help of a sound budget I was able to pay off all of my student loans (~$30k) in 1.5 years...and I am definitely a spender! Portions of each paycheck covered my debt reduction, rent, bills, etc. and then I had a set amount of money that I was able to spend on whatever I wanted for the duration of the pay period. The one piece of advice that was constantly repeated was ''save first, spend second.'' Paying off my loans was a triumphant time for me and now I''m all about saving...with some reasonable spending on the side.

Good luck!

 

[jcarlylew]

thanks all,
his savings habits are... none. which was the whole bugger about getting an E ring. i am super happy that he did not open up credit for one (its on lay away) and i guess that is the simple way to start saving. it seems right now its just two fold - start saving for long term AND curb the useless spending.

PP - i think you are right. Until he can control his own budget, he''s really not ready for anything "big". which is a big downer. I am really hoping that after we get back from vacation, and he sees how much of my paycheck goes to bills (as a result of being a spender

) maybe, just maybe he''ll get the big picture.

Thanks again everyone for the tips/suggestions. It''s time to see what we can do!

 

[fieryred33143]

Mr. Fiery had a really hard time with saving too. He had moved in with me after living with his mother for 27 years. He saved zero dollars in that time, I''m almost ashamed to admit. When we moved in together, we didn''t do joint right away for that reason. He needed to learn and it took a while. He was just so convinced that it was impossible for him to save because of how much he made and what he was contributing towards the bills. Around November 2007 when we started talking about getting married, he admitted to me that he was having a problem saving (before then I knew little about his account) and I gave him the tools I learned in my finance courses and also what I used for myself. In 5 months he was able to save $5,000 and he never felt like he was without cash to do what he wanted to do. Sometimes people just need tools layed out in front of them to learn that saving is possible.

J-I would see if you could come up with a variety of options for him and let him choose one that makes sense for him.

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 5/26/2009 1:53:34 PM
Author: fieryred33143
Mr. Fiery had a really hard time with saving too. He had moved in with me after living with his mother for 27 years. He saved zero dollars in that time, I''m almost ashamed to admit. When we moved in together, we didn''t do joint right away for that reason. He needed to learn and it took a while. He was just so convinced that it was impossible for him to save because of how much he made and what he was contributing towards the bills. Around November 2007 when we started talking about getting married, he admitted to me that he was having a problem saving (before then I knew little about his account) and I gave him the tools I learned in my finance courses and also what I used for myself. In 5 months he was able to save $5,000 and he never felt like he was without cash to do what he wanted to do. Sometimes people just need tools layed out in front of them to learn that saving is possible.

J-I would see if you could come up with a variety of options for him and let him choose one that makes sense for him.

What are these tools you speak of, Ms Fiery?

 

[jcarlylew]

Date: 5/26/2009 2:07:48 PM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 5/26/2009 1:53:34 PM

Author: fieryred33143

Mr. Fiery had a really hard time with saving too. He had moved in with me after living with his mother for 27 years. He saved zero dollars in that time, I''m almost ashamed to admit. When we moved in together, we didn''t do joint right away for that reason. He needed to learn and it took a while. He was just so convinced that it was impossible for him to save because of how much he made and what he was contributing towards the bills. Around November 2007 when we started talking about getting married, he admitted to me that he was having a problem saving (before then I knew little about his account) and I gave him the tools I learned in my finance courses and also what I used for myself. In 5 months he was able to save $5,000 and he never felt like he was without cash to do what he wanted to do. Sometimes people just need tools layed out in front of them to learn that saving is possible.


J-I would see if you could come up with a variety of options for him and let him choose one that makes sense for him.

What are these tools you speak of, Ms Fiery?

YES! I am really interested, thank you!!

 

[fieryred33143]

Elle-I just sort of guided him in a non-pushy sort of way

. He didn''t know how to budget so I gave him budgeting tips. We sat down together with his bank statements. First, in a spreadsheet I mapped out what he was spending in the past 5 months. It''s hard to know how to save if you don''t know what you are spending your money on. I think when he saw that he was spending nearly 60% of his leftover pay on food (restaurants, lunch for work, etc.) it was an eye opener...especially since the man can cook

. He also was used to taking out $20 from the ATM and incurring the $2-$3 fee several times throughout the week instead of taking out maybe $100, paying the one time fee of $2-$3 and using that money until it runs out (ppl don''t realize how much ATM fees eat at your money).

Once we came up with an amount for him to leave in his checking to use every two weeks, saving came a lot easier for him. He was the type of person that if he had money in his account...he had to use it all.

I always encourage people to look at their bank statements and maybe categorize expenses for a month. You''d be surprise the kind of things you use your money on and how huge of a percentage things like going out to eat really is. It''s one thing to spend $5 on Starbucks and think ok, it''s just $5...and a whole other to add it up for a month and realize just how much you are truly spending, you know.

 

[jcarlylew]

very wise. i think once E realizes how much he spends on food alone, that might help. the man spends probably a good 50% at gas stations alone. While i realize his job is unpredictable on where/when he can eat, doesn''t mean he cannot bring lunch from home!

 

[trillionaire]

don''t know if this was mentioned already, but maybe express your concern about BOTH of your spending habits then suggest that you read a financial book for couples or something together. Especially one of the kinds with a workbook or a savings plan/challenge... something that makes it more like a problem you are tackling together.

Good luck!

 

[lulu]

WOW. Retired at 52 these days is AMAZING. Kudos to you and your DH for being so smart with your money.

Thanks, but left to my own devices I''d have been in trouble. My very frugal dad always said "you''re going to end up a bag lady. They''ll be nice bags from Neimans and Saks, but you''ll be a bag lady" DH saved me.

 

[Dreamgirl]

I think it seems like a little bit of both jcar. Maybe you do have a little bit of cold feet which I''m sure will pass.

I''d just have a sit down with him and say "hey, look you are spending way more than needed and lets talk about this" Its very important to have finances straight before getting married. Otherwise he could get you into a HUGE mess down the road.

 

[Winks_Elf]

I absolutely do not think it is a sign he doesn''t want to get married.

My fiance is very similar to your man. He has a lot of bills to pay (40-year-old bachelor with no children), and for years lived on his own (never really lived with anyone, never been married), so he''s always only had to think about himself. His car costs $530 a month (R32), he has loans to repay, credit cards, etc.

Once I realized just how damaging his bills are to the monthly budget, and how bad he is at managing money, I put the brakes on. We are still engaged, but the wedding has been canceled. I have already told him that we will not move in together or get married until he gets the bills under control.

 

[purrfectpear]

A little tough love huh Melissa? I think it''s wise, but I hope he pulls it together

 

[jcarlylew]

Melissa- thank you for the encouragement! I have thought that a couple times now, and honestly, i think you are very wise to do so! I appreciate your courage!!

 

[ilovesparkles]

I think all the advice is wonderful! I don''t think its a sign of anything beyond the inability to manage money. And I do think that the number one way to help him begin to manage it better is to begin doing it yourself first. When I stopped eating out, buying frivolous things, and watching movies, it didn''t make H think too much, for a month. And then he slowly began to feel a little guilty every time he went out for sushi, and I stayed at home with a frozen pizza. I chose to watch a movie on hulu.com, and he would go to the theater. He began to realize that I was making this huge effort, and in turn, so should he.

Now, was I perfect angel and never say a word to him? Of course not! I would mention things here and there, like his habit of going to the store every morning to buy a pop. I would say "Honey, if you went to the grocery store, you could have a 24 pack at home, bring one every morning, and stop being late to work and save money!" Pack a lunch. Set goals of eating out once a week instead of 4.

You get the idea. Once it was my goal, and my priority, and I would discuss simple ways for him to cut spending; it quickly became a priority for him as well. He now goes grocer shopping regularly, packs a lunch every day, and has only eaten out once in the last 2 weeks. The biggest accomplishment, 2 DVDs in the last month!

Good luck to the both of you!

 

[Winks_Elf]

Date: 5/27/2009 7:23:51 AM
Author: jcarlylew
Melissa- thank you for the encouragement! I have thought that a couple times now, and honestly, i think you are very wise to do so! I appreciate your courage!!

Tough love is easier when you have children. As much as I love my fiance, I ALWAYS have to put the needs of my children first. Stability is key with kids, and if my fiance and I were to move in right now, I'm afraid that he would rapidly become a financial drain. I'm very careful with money, and plan on bills coming up a month or more in advance. He doesn't, but is starting to.

We are not 20-something-year-old's with no responsibility to anyone but ourselves. He has been a bachelor for 40 years, and never had to think about anyone but himself. He's learning. There are times that he hits the middle of the month, and is surviving for two weeks off of Ramen noodles, and only eats once a day. Could you imagine telling the kids "well, there's no money for food for the next two weeks, so that's what we're eating." Not going to happen. He knows what he needs to do, and is making plans for it. He's moving in with a friend of his, which will save about $500-$700 a month right there. He's looking for a new car to trade his in for, and even if he finds one that will cost $250-$300 a month after trade (he's got a Volkswagen R32, in Black Magic paint, which is a very sought after car...worth about $14-$16k for trade-in), that will save at least $200-$300 a month. That's almost $1,000 a month difference. He's working on the bills, and not using credit cards anymore, so once those get paid down, there will be a little more breathing room.

It sucks to be apart, but these are the sacrifices we need to make now to ensure a more financially stable future.

 

[MonkeyPants]

Jcar, you already got a ton of great advice. I just want to say that I''m in the same boat. After talking about my concerns about his spending, he said I could control a good portion of his money since i''m always so stressed about it. So I guess in that way, I''m lucky because he didn''t really put up much of a fight.
Have you tried Mint.com or Quicken Online? it''s a great way to track all of your CC''s,bank accounts, and investments in one place. However, all of your accounts have to be online. Mint.com allows you to set budgets for yourself and will alert you if you go over. It also tells you where you spend most of your money. oh and it''s free!