Asscher Help Please

[TRD43]

Hello,

This is my first post on this forum and I would like to start off by saying that it has provided me with plenty of useful information. Having said that, i still have some questions that I hope some of the experts might be able to help me with.

I am looking for an engagement diamond and have narrowed my search to either an Asscher or Royal Asscher.

I do have several questions though:

1) I have found many people selling "asscher" or "square-emerald" cut diamonds with table/depth proportions that I do not feel would fit in asscher category. My question is if I get a properly cut asscher stone (proper dimensions) will it look anywhere near as nice as a royal asscher? I ask this because from the research I have done it appears as if a RA is approx 30% more expensive than a standard asscher.

2) Purchasing online - Many people have been telling me that its not a good idea to purchase a diamond without actually seeing it regardless of of GIA report. Is there any type of information/picture that a seller can send that will be sufficient in making a decision?

3) From the information that I have found, is it fair to say that proper table dimension for an asscher should be about - 53%-61% and the depth should be about 58%-67%??? I know that generally speaking its better to have a higher crown and smaller table on an asscher cut diamond.

4) Royal asscher - Is fabrikant the only place you can obtain a royal asscher??

I have only decided to look for a diamond for my girlfriend within the last couple of weeks and I feel that I am now ready to actually ready to follow through with a purchase. Can anyone recommend an honest seller/wholesaler that will also hopefully be able to accomodate my budget?? (overextending myself as it is but shes definitely worth it).

Specifications of the stone I am interested in:

Carat - Approx 1.5
Colour - F/G (if anyone feels I can get away with an H or I just chime in)
Clarity - VS1/VS2
Cut - VG/VG minimum
Naturally the table/Depth proportions within spec.

Thanks so much for your assistance and help on the matter. I honestly enjoy being part of this forum.

TRD43

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Hi Trd,
I would say that there are many variations of the brnaded stones which look very much like the Royal stones.
Even with proporitons outside of the numbers you mentioned- although thse numbers are asscoaited with Royal type stones.
In fact, it''s the corners wihich make the largest difference, in my opinion.
That''s why a photo is a very good idea.

I don''t believe Fabrakant sells the Royal Asscher to retail clients- you wil need to find a re-seller.

As far as color it''s quite a personal issue.
If she is not tremendously color sensative, you can get a much larger I color in your budget.

 

[DPG]

Just a few months ago, I was in the same position as you are now. I long debated the Royal-vs-Asscher style.

My conclusion: I ended up going with the Square Emerald (SE). Fabrikant does sell directly to non-retail, let me know if you need a contact. However, the 30-45% premium in my eyes was not worth it. I was fortunate enough to compare the SE I ended purchasing next to a Royal and was not able to notice anything worth the premium.

As you know or may not know, Royal is just a Patent. And Fabrikant is a spinoff from the original Asscher or Antique Asscher back in the early 1900s. Guess what though? The original asscher was the equivalent to what is the now SE Cut. Royal came out as a way to be unique by adding the 16 infamous facets and additional step with a hefty price tage along with it. Originally I felt that I was going to be cutting my soon to be fiance short by not offering a "Royal." Then when I did some further investigating I realized the today SE was how the original antique asscher was made to begin with. You need to decide for yourself if that is psychologically fit for you.

Online vs Retail. A catch that I also found was that a lot of retails will be offering diamonds that are already being offered online!!! Ask to see the GIA certificate or copy in the retail store then take the certificate # and compare it to what is being offered through the inventory on Pricescope, hoepfully as I was, you will be pleasantly surprised.

I would recommend looking at retail stores just to get an idea of what specifications meant the most to you, i.e. what table sizes look like, what depths look like etc. From there, all is game.

SPEC''s:
I got to tell you, this is my opinion only, with a G/H, I was able to see color clearly. Which is not a good or a bad thing. I tried to stay in the D-F in my search. I would recommend staying away with anything lower than a VS-1 for the mere fact that these SE''s or RA''s are so darn transparent!!! You were right with the Polish and Symmetry being no lower than VG/VG (EX/EX if you can!!), the depth ideally should be from 65-70% The table, this is the tricky part. RA''s typically have a table in the 57-62% range. This small table is in order to build up the crown (greater than 15% not on GIA) and accentuate the steps in the appearance. However, with a larger table, I would say no more than 66-68%, the diamond will appear to look larger, but also losing on the "steps" in appearance. BTW, stay away from Very thick girdles!!! You are losing size with the Asscher Cut to begin with, why lose anymore.

You never gave your price range, but take a quick look at the fascinating inventory here to get an idea. I went through Whiteflash through here and they were amazing.

After this long post I think it is only fair to post a pic what I ended up to prove there is light after a Royal. Let me know if you want the specs

SO here it is a 1.73 carat SE, saved myself about $8,500 of a premium that a Royal had with the same specs (less the 16 Facets).

 

[decodelighted]

Please share the specs!

That's a beautiful Asscher you found. I, too, looked at the Royal Asschers and didn't like the way the extra steps (that you pay a steep premium for) appeared. A 1.7-ish stone just looked dark & busy with the RA cutting plot ... and I much, much prefer SEs with Asscher-like specs. However, if I was looking at 3ct or up .. I'd take another look at RA's, because that large a stone might look better with extra steps. (HA! In another lifetime)

ETA ... found your thread DPG ... I've been stalking your stone for weeks now apparently. Can't believe I didn't recognize it. It shows up in MY DREAMS!!!

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ideal-scope-se.33242/

May my future 1.5 H VVS1 make me forget you and your beautiful stone, when I finally get it on my greedy, eager hand that is!

 

[mepearl53]

Date: 9/20/2005 2:05:42 PM
Author: DPG

Fabrikant does sell directly to non-retail, let me know if you need a contact.

DPG


I think there would be a lot of interest in this statement. How did you come across this? Contacts?

 

[TRD43]

Thank-you all for your replies.

Yah... I think Im going to stick with either an F or G max.

I will most likely be buying a diamond online and might not get a chance to see the actual diamond prior to making my purchase. Are there any types of pictures that I can ask for to get a better idea of what to expect?

 

[DPG]

mepearl53

In my research I contacted Fabrikant myself and spoke with a Kristen Schenck who was more than willing to sell me a Royal Asscher directly. 212-757-0790 ext 656. She was very polite and helpful.

As pointed out by David, being that there is patent, Fabrikant only allows certain retailers to distribute the Royal Asscher. From Oregan, to California, to Florida and back to NY, you will find retailers - few, but they exist.

Some of the chains are definitely Fortunoff and I believe Neiman Marcus. There is a mark-up for the Royal Asschers to begin with, but by going through an outside distributor other than Fabrikant, I noticed a double markup in almost all cases.

Across the board however there was a lack of RA supply in the size we are talking about on this thread, which was relatively the same size I was looking for. The supply for under 2 carats was little to none probably for reasons noted by the ever so sweet decodelighted, "A 1.7-ish stone just looked dark & busy with the RA cutting plot " I couldnt agree with decode more, a 2+ carat range, a RA has to be phenomenal and unmatchable. But in the under 2 carat range, is it really worth it?

TRD43 - see if they can send you a pic of the ideal scope and a regular pic.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 9/20/2005 2:05:42 PM
Author: DPG

... came out as a way to be unique by adding the 16 infamous facets and additional step with a hefty price tage along with it.

Oh well, sort of unrelated, but there are no-name square step cuts with extra facets anyway. There is some benefit from the extra step there, but I don''t think this is the place to get into that and I am no expert either.

Here''s what I am talking about:

 

[DPG]

Date: 9/21/2005 10:08:31 AM
Author: valeria101

Date: 9/20/2005 2:05:42 PM
Author: DPG


... came out as a way to be unique by adding the 16 infamous facets and additional step with a hefty price tage along with it.

Oh well, sort of unrelated, but there are no-name square step cuts with extra facets anyway. There is some benefit from the extra step there, but I don''t think this is the place to get into that and I am no expert either.

Here''s what I am talking about:

Wow!!! I am in shock, I thought the extra facets were the ingredients the patent was protecting!?!?! Looks like my research fell short - live and learn. If you do not mind me asking, where did you find that diamond? Where were you 3 months ago?!?!!

 

[valeria101]

Date: 9/21/2005 2:45:10 PM
Author: DPG

Date: 9/21/2005 10:08:31 AM
Author: valeria101

Oh well, sort of unrelated, but ..

Wow!!! I am in shock, I thought the extra facets were the ingredients the patent was protecting!?

Those patents don't protect much... actually, I don't even know what they do protect aside the use of the name itself. There are allot more fancy cuts out there than patents, and many are never widely marketed. No wonder you haven't found this one.


Looks like my research fell short - live and learn.

It wasn't important... the piece you've got is lovely !
I don't think that extra row of facets guarantees anything - the proportions of the cut are more critial and your stone seems to do allot of things right, as much as I can tell.


If you do not mind me asking, where did you find that diamond?

Singnedpieces - most (if not all) asschers they present with certs are like this - weird enough.


Where were you 3 months ago?!

Didn't see your posts here earlier, but this doesn't make much of a difference. I would have still considered the stone you picked close to the RA 'look' than a diamond with a large table and en extra row of facets on the pavilion (like the one described by the GIA cert posted above).

On the aside... David from Diamonds by Lauren mentioned these squares a while ago - the extra row of facets help create the stepped look expected from Asschers on diamonds with large tables and low crowns. The look is convincing face down but that is not a complete description of a diamond. On larger stones, I would think these new breed of step cuts has its own distinct look, not quite 'asscherish' but allot nicer (IMO) than what the things would have been without the extra facets.

Otherwise, I'd bet there are RA look alikes out there with or without the extra facets. Honestly, on stones with Asscher -like proportions (small table, high crown, deep corners and great optics with little contrast brillaince & all), the extra facets do not serve well diamonds smaller than... 5 cts or so. Still IMO, of course.

For what that matters, there is always going to be yet a new shape of diamond around the corner once you start looking, and I've been following these for a while now.

Just my 0.2

 

[valeria101]

Date: 9/19/2005 10:13:10 AM
Author:TRD43

My question is if I get a properly cut asscher stone (proper dimensions) will it look anywhere near as nice as a royal asscher?

Maybe these help answe that question... Of course, it is up to you. Some may say there is no similarity and end up buying the brand, some not. I am not sure one camp has it right, because diamonds look great is allot of various cuts and there is room for diverging tastes, of course.


These are 1.5-2 cts, D to I, VS2 or higher, for what that matters (since neither size or color shows in pictures).