Art Deco Engagement Ring from Gesners

[rneill]

Hi all, This is my first post on PriceScope. I was originally looking for an Antique Cushion or Old Mine Cut stone and having Leon make a setting for it. When I was showing my GF the antique stones to make sure she liked them she said she would really like to have an antique ring from the Art Deco Period as that is what her grandmother wore. After looking all over and not finding many that I liked that I thought she would also like (I'm much more fussy then she is) I stumbled upon this one. At first I thought it was a steal but after looking at the prices of other vintage rings on her I am not so sure it was that great of a deal but I dont think it was a complete rip off either and like I said after looking through hundreds of rings this was the only one that really jumped out at me that I had to have. Also it was about half of what I originally budgeted to spend. I was able to get it for 4500. It has a .8ct center stone OE cut H color and I believe it was labled as SI1. Here are some pics. Was 4500 reasonable? Like I said this is the only one I really liked so I dont mind spending a premium for "the one" but don't want to over pay to much either. Any input is greatly appreciated. The other ring in the pics is another one I asked them to do compare pics with. It is a .65ct I Color I believe.

 

[LibbyLA]

I am far from being an expert, but I picked up a nice .75 ct. center stone in white gold for $1700 or so earlier this year. (see below)

Can you post some photos of the diamond head-on, as well as in profile? Those who know will need to see those views to tell you anything about the diamond.

It's certainly an interesting and different setting so I can see why you both like it.

liz

 

[rneill]

I forgot to mention the setting is platinum. These are the only other pics I have so far. It is still on layaway. I know I am prolly one out of 100 but the setting was more important to me then the diamond. However I do love the antique and AVC cushions but am not sure if it would be possible and if it would look good to have a cushion put in this setting. Thanks for looking!

 

[LibbyLA]

You did mention that the setting is platinum. Unfortunately, the photos don't show anything about the diamond. It may not be an old cut diamond at all. I'm thinking that $4K plus for the setting and the diamond may be too much.

If you can, get some good closeup shots of the head directly from the top and also profile. That will help the experts identify what cut the diamond is and they can give you an opinion on whether it's worth the price.

liz

 

[rneill]

Thanks for the feedback. I will see if I can get some better shots of the stone.

 

[LibbyLA]

The first ring at the top of this page has a much larger diamond, it is priced a little higher than the ring you chose (but still well under your budget), and you might not like the setting as much. There are several other lovely rings on the page that are within your budget.

http://www.jewelsbyericagrace.com/antique_vintage_and_reproduction_rings_page_3

There are also some possibilities on the previous page:

http://www.jewelsbyericagrace.com/antique_vintage_and_reproduction_rings_page_2

liz

 

[rneill]

I like the ring you posted also it is very pretty and seems like you got a great deal! I also like the one on the top of page 3 but would like to stay away from reproductions, we like the history and the idea that it has been around all that time It's funny originally I thought an antique would have to big of price premium to consider and it turns out if anything they are a bit cheaper than the modern alternatives. After looking at the selection at JBEG the price for the one I found does seem pretty reasonable to me assuming the center stone checks out and is a genuine Euro Cut.

I emailed Gesners today and they are going to get me a shot or two of the diamond straight on tomorrow that shows the cut. They originally had one on the site but it appears that is the only shot I did not save since it didn't show the setting much. They have been extremely nice and have responded to all my questions almost immediately. I know they only have a two day return policy and that seems to turn people off. I am more concerned with the fact that I am buying on layaway and they only return for store credit purchases that were bought on layaway but that seems to be the norm and is understandable. We are in the middle of moving across the country and I was planing on waiting until after we got moved and setup to make the purchase but since its so old and I am not likely to ever find that ring again I put it on layaway to make sure someone else didn't scoop it up.

Just curios does anyone think an oval or antique squarish cushion would work and look good in that setting? I probably wont mess with it and leave the original stone in it but I am the kind of person that likes to "upgrade" things

She has not actually seen the ring yet, she says she wants to be surprised and doesn't want to know. I really wish she would let me show it to her she is the one that has to wear it and while I know she will love any ring I get her I would feel a lot better if she would just help pick it out!

Thanks again for looking

 

[LibbyLA]

I wish some of the experts would chime in.

How are you going to feel if the diamond isn't an antique cut? In the one sort of profile photo, I'm not seeing the high crown and small table that many antique stones have. That may be a modern round brilliant and there's no way to know how well-cut it is.

Don't count on being able to replace that diamond with anything but one very close to the same size. Doing anything to change the size or shape of the diamond would probably be expensive and would require a lot of skill. It's major "surgery".

liz

 

[rneill]

I would be upset if it was a poorly cut modern instead of an antique cut stone for several reasons. I did notice that it does not have a high crown. The high crown and the chunky cut is what I like most about the old ones. I do think the profile of the stone looks good in this setting though I wonder what it would look like with a big chunky high crown. I really didn't research the european cuts at all , I was mostly looking at old mines and antique cushions and was going to find a stone and get a setting for it or get something made. My GF suggested I just look at completed antique rings instead and then I found this one. I assumed the european cut was just flatter then the others and it was normal.

 

[LibbyLA]

This is my ring in profile. It's an OEC and it does have a high crown and a relatively small table. I'm not saying what's in that ring is a RB, but I have an antique ring from the 1930s that has an RB. I know that's the original diamond because it's been in my family all along. I just can't tell anything from your photos.

I don't know if there's any way you can get out of buying that ring, but if you can, you probably should until you have verified the ring's specs. You may be overpaying for something that isn't what you think it is.

liz

 

[rneill]

Here are the shots they sent. Thoughts?

 

[LibbyLA]

It doesn't look like an old cut to me, but I'm not an expert. It has the splintery look that I associate with modern cuts instead of the chunky facets and flowery center that old cuts have. It doesn't appear to have an open culet, either. Look at the photos on Jewels by Erica Grace and you'll see what I mean about the chunky facets, flower pattern, and open culet.

liz

 

[Mayk]

for less and a beautiful setting and lovely older stone I like Jewels by Erica Grace's listing..

http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.com/Jewelry/Rings-Antique-Vintage/79ct-Old-European-Cut-Diamond/25067850_9kpML8#!i=2054215557&k=GpbkXxN

 

[mandasand]

You may also want to look at Leigh Jay Nacht. They have original art deco rings and replicas, usually set with an OEC or OMC. If you do a search "art deco," it will bring up all their styles from that period.
http://antiqueengagementrings.com/shopping/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=20

 

[jerichosmom]

To me (and I'm no expert by all means), it looks like a MRB, not an old cut. My father's diamond which he bought in the 70's looks like that. I'd prefer a diamond with a more pronounced snowflake pattern.

 

[rneill]

I agree it does not look like a euro cut. I really don't know what to do now. I made my GF look at the pics because I was planning on attempting to cancel the order and then she absolutely loved the setting. I think I am going to see if I can get it reset with a same sized euro cut or an AVR and if they are not willing to reset it or sell it without a stone then I will probably try and cancel the whole thing.

I decided to look at the other rings they have listed to see if the other center stones looked more like antique cuts then this one thinking maybe this one was just an odd cut and I found this, also labeled as euro... ?

http://www.gesner.com/antique-vintage-jewelry/45-ct-diamond-platinum-antique-engagement-ring.html

Thanks for the suggestions I found a couple options on JBEG that we would be very happy with if this does not work out. I will keep you posted. Thanks for the help!

 

[LibbyLA]

That does not appear to be an old cut, either. JbEG shows closeup photos of the diamonds and they are very good about identifying the cut of the diamond. Some of the other vendors linked here do the same.

 

[bunnycat]

I agree it does not look like a euro cut. I really don't know what to do now. I made my GF look at the pics because I was planning on attempting to cancel the order and then she absolutely loved the setting. I think I am going to see if I can get it reset with a same sized euro cut or an AVR and if they are not willing to reset it or sell it without a stone then I will probably try and cancel the whole thing.

I decided to look at the other rings they have listed to see if the other center stones looked more like antique cuts then this one thinking maybe this one was just an odd cut and I found this, also labeled as euro... ?

http://www.gesner.com/antique-vintage-jewelry/45-ct-diamond-platinum-antique-engagement-ring.html

Thanks for the suggestions I found a couple options on JBEG that we would be very happy with if this does not work out. I will keep you posted. Thanks for the help!

hi there rneill- That one isn't on oec. I can see "arrows" in it (kind of like the ad at the top of the PS page from Whiteflash where there are arrow shapes around the lady's eye). From the straight on shots of the first one, it's not an OEC. It could be a Transitional cut (low probability) or just a fairly chaotic modern round brilliant.

It seems to me (at least from the photos you've posted) that this website is calling diamonds old cuts that actually aren't old cuts perhaps because they are so popular right now and it's a way to promote their goods? I can't say for the ring itself whether it is an antique setting or not. There are reproduction settings out there too. But based on how they are trying to promote the diamonds, I'd be wary. You might ask if anyone has ever bought from them before and how it went. Is there is a reason you would refer to stick to this particular company?

The problem here (to me) is that it seems like an awful high price to pay for an under 1/2c (modern?) stone that you have almost no information on and it's clearly NOT an old cut. With modern diamonds, people are generally going to want to point you to one that has a some information on it so that you know something about it (cut quality, angles, color, clarity and so forth) and generally a report from a respected lab like GIA and AGS. With old cuts, the rules of the game change and I think they are much harder to get a "nice one" because you can't really rely on numbers, but your experience with what old cuts look like, how their performance differs and what is personally pleasing. And if you're new to that, or don't have time to learn it before you make your purchase, you might want to consider going through a vendor who is trustworthy (like JBEG or LJN or Old World Diamonds). Also, one common problem you find with old settings is with people sticking not so good modern diamonds in there because it's cheaper than putting a good one in, and well, most people aren't going to think to ask. (Hence the caution I made about modern stones and lab reports and why that might be a good thing to have when you know you've got a modern stone in a ring regardless of the age of the setting.)

I believe someone else suggested LeighJNacht also and of course, JewelsByEricaGrace. The LJN site does sell reproductions but they also have actual antiques and they do tell you in the listings whether they are using a reproduction setting or if it's an actual antique and also if the diamond is a modern round or an old cut. You might also want to browse some of the threads on PS and review some of the "flavors" of old cuts so you can spot them more easily.

http://antiqueengagementrings.com/shopping/shopdisplayproducts.asp?page=11&id=20

 

[bunnycat]

This one is my favorite setting from Leigh J Nacht and has a wide range of stones sizes that would fit and has a similar feel to the first ring you like.

http://antiqueengagementrings.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=2358

You can look on Old WOrld Diamonds and see if Adam can source an actual old stone for it or Good Old Gold is also carrying some antique cuts as well.

DOn't know much about this stone but it came from JBEG and is up for sale on DB:

http://www.diamondbistro.com/category/215/Loose-natural-Diamonds/listings/31468/Loose-Old-European-Cut.html

You cold post a thread in RockyTalky and ask people what they think of the stone....(people who are a lot more experienced with old cuts)

If the stone checked out, you could bring the whole ring in for about what the first one cost...

 

[ariel144]

Here is the facet pattern you should be looking for either for an OEC (Old European cut) or an OMC Old Mine cut
The one you are looking at looks like a round brilliant and not even a transitional or old cut IMO. The setting is VERY
lovely but you surely don't want a dud diamond as that is what most people will see when she is wearing the ring ...the setting
is secondary to the stone...and $4500 for .45c is way over priced. I posted some 1c below that are that price in antique settings:

These are custom cut stones to look like Old cuts notice the flower pattern in the facet structure...this is what you are looking for
in an antique round diamond and if it is dark in the middle under the table that is nail head and no good:
Video of nail head on OEC Well performing old cut stones are like finding a needle in a haystack.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNymrKPbp_s&list=UUEV7slr-i-VduBBnfv9MxhA&index=7&feature=plcp
There are plenty of old cut videos for you to watch on GOG to educate yourself.
Here are some August Vintage Old cuts cut for high optic performance:
OEC
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9574/
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8246/
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9274/


Here is an H I1 almost 1 carat August Vintage Old European cut. “All the inclusions are white
and not easily seen.” This would be a great stone for an engagement ring on a budget.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9058/

Here is a platinum antique reprod. setting for $1500 that is very nice. I think GOG carries this brand.
http://www.gabrielny.com/amavida/style/ER7389PT3JJ
also my fav. that someone already posted:
http://antiqueengagementrings.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=2358


OMC
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9411/
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9492/



http://www.morganjewellers.com/d/antique-diamond-engagement-rings/138-ct-diamond-filigree-ring-18-kt-white-gold/


http://www.abrandtandson.com/Art_Deco_Platinum_Diamond_Engagement_Ring_1.42ct.html#product_detail

http://www.abrandtandson.com/Art_Deco_Platinum_Diamond_Sapphire_Engagement_Ring_1.00ct.html

http://www.abrandtandson.com/Art_Deco_14kt_Diamond_Engagement_Ring_.98ctw.html#product_detail

http://www.abrandtandson.com/Late_Retro_Platinum_Diamond_Engagement_Ring_.82ct.html#product_detail

transitional cut
http://www.abrandtandson.com/Art_Deco_14kt_Mixed_Metals_Diamond_Engage_Ring_.94ct.html

I would also look here...he has tons of antique rings. Just hard to see the faceting on his pics
http://www.antiquejewelryforsale.com/viewProduct-919-WHITE_GOLD_DECO_FILIGREE_ENGAGEMENT_RING.html#

OMC
http://www.abrandtandson.com/Art_Deco_Platinum_Diamond_Engagment_Ring_1.15ct.html#product_detail

http://www.newyorkestatejewelry.com/Engagement%20Rings/0.80ct%20Diamond%20Platinum%20Engagement%20Ring/8223/3/item

http://www.newyorkestatejewelry.com/engagement-rings/0.95ct-diamond-platinum-engagement-ring/7439/3/item#

http://www.newyorkestatejewelry.com/engagement-rings/0.92ct-diamond-platinum-engagement-ring/12848/3/item#

http://www.newyorkestatejewelry.com/engagement-rings/edwardian-style-0.83ct-diamond-platinum-engagement-ring/12174/3/item#

http://www.newyorkestatejewelry.com/engagement-rings/0.79ct-diamond-platinum-engagement-ring/10782/3/item#

 

[decodelighted]

I don't think that's Art Deco either.

 

[rneill]

Thanks guys. I was trying to stay with the company because we really liked that setting. After seeing that they are defiantly advertising the stones incorrectly I am going to try and cancel the order and get my deposit back. Hopefully it goes smoothly, since they are basically falsely advertising I wont except anything other then a full refund. I certainly don't want store credit since I no longer trust the company.

I will keep you posted.

 

[rneill]

I was in contact with the owner of Gesners today. He insists the stone is european cut but offered to reset it with one that has the characteristics I am looking for since I am not happy with the one it currently has. I think this is a fair and reasonable option considering we like the setting so much. Looking around their site I found four options in the size range that we would be happy with. He is going to get me better pictures of these but here are the ones I liked based on the stock photos on the site.


http://www.gesner.com/antique-vintage-jewelry/engagement-rings/antique-platinum-diamond-art-deco-engagement-ring-93.html

http://www.gesner.com/antique-vintage-jewelry/engagement-rings/antique-platinum-diamond-engagement-ring-4.html

http://www.gesner.com/antique-vintage-jewelry/engagement-rings/antique-platinum-diamond-art-deco-engagement-ring-64.html

http://www.gesner.com/antique-vintage-jewelry/engagement-rings/antique-platinum-diamond-83-cts-vs2-i-art-deco-engagement-ring.html

 

[LibbyLA]

I like the first two better than the second two, but if there's any way you can see the choices in person, that's what I'd do. Sounds like you have been given good options.

liz

 

[SweetAsscher]

The last one looks very similar to an avr!

 

[ariel144]

I was in contact with the owner of Gesners today. He insists the stone is european cut but offered to reset it with one that has the characteristics I am looking for since I am not happy with the one it currently has. I think this is a fair and reasonable option considering we like the setting so much. Looking around their site I found four options in the size range that we would be happy with. He is going to get me better pictures of these but here are the ones I liked based on the stock photos on the site.


http://www.gesner.com/antique-vintage-jewelry/engagement-rings/antique-platinum-diamond-art-deco-engagement-ring-93.html

http://www.gesner.com/antique-vintage-jewelry/engagement-rings/antique-platinum-diamond-engagement-ring-4.html

http://www.gesner.com/antique-vintage-jewelry/engagement-rings/antique-platinum-diamond-art-deco-engagement-ring-64.html

http://www.gesner.com/antique-vintage-jewelry/engagement-rings/antique-platinum-diamond-83-cts-vs2-i-art-deco-engagement-ring.html

Well that is nice of him. I like #'s 2 and 4. Nice high crowns and facet patterns. Ask the vendor which stone is the most lively in his opinion. # 2 is more transitional looking and #4 like an OEC with the flower pattern. ..#4 is my fav. as far as the facet pattern but in a stone this small it won't matter that much anyway. I would ask the vendor for their opinion. The larger size of #2 and higher color makes it very appealing too...gee, i can't really decide so i see your dilemma.

That setting is TDF.

 

[rneill]

I think I like #2 the best. I cant wait to see the better pictures tomorrow. I will post them here to see what you all think. Seeing them in person is not an option for me unfortunately but if anyone lives near largo FL and would like to make a trip to see them I am more then happy to hear what you have to say about them

 

[bunnycat]

I agree- the stone in either 2 or 4 looks preliminarily better. Check the face on view with a light behind you away from the jewelery store lighting (near a window perhaps) to get away from all that overhead brightness. I like stone #3 less than the others from the photos.

ETA- just saw you can't see them in person. Since this appears to be a no return situation for you, I would seriously ask for a video of the stones before he resets anything, by a window if possible or outside in mixed shade and sun like JBEG does so you have a better idea of how the stone in going to act in ACTUAL lighting situations you will encounter in everyday life (since you don't live in a jewlery store), moving them slowly so you can see the patterning and how the diamond handles light. Use the JBEG videos as your guide.

 

[rneill]

I got some pictures and video of the stone they picked out mounted in my setting. I am concerned about it having a dead spot in the middle. It was visible in the picture of it mounted in its original setting. I told them I was concerned about it and he assured me it was a bad picture and that it was a very bright and lively stone in person. I asked him to take a short video of it being moved around slowly in the light so I could see if the center facets were in fact bad and wanted to make sure I was happy with it before they went through the trouble of re setting it. A couple days later they sent me these pictures and videos of it already mounted in my setting. It looks nice in the video and I love the profile of the stone but I am still concerned about the center facets and one of the new pictures also shows them as being dark. I am not that happy that they went ahead and set the stone without getting my approval first and I don't feel like the videos really show the one thing I told them I was concerned about.

Thoughts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDFP7cZcPTY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9SY--QKrLE

 

[rneill]

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