Any DINK (Double income no kids) couples out there?

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I've been reading this thread with interest....and wonder....are there any much older DINKs out there who could contribute? As one approaches the end of his life, is there ever regret over not having had children?

I'm in my sixties. Unlike today's couples, we didn't really think much about whether or not to have kids...we just had em. And I am so thankful that we did! I'm blown away by the pleasure and satisfaction I get watching my adult children raise their children (and do a better job of it, I might add..) They are remarkable young people and they enrich my life.

When I go, I'll be leaving behind much much more than a nice jewelry collection or +3600 sq. ft. of living space.

JM2cts..
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[Dancing Fire]

now on teh other side of the DINKs.i see young couples that can''t afford to have kids (on welfare) with 1/2 of dozen kids running around.my question is....why should tax payers support them? the sad story is... i know couples with middle incomes that wants more kids but say they can''t afford to.there is something wrong with this system. JMO

 

[Jennifer5973]

Date: 8/2/2005 12:37:30 PM
Author: widget

When I go, I'll be leaving behind much much more than a nice jewelry collection or +3600 sq. ft. of living space.

JM2cts..
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Good for you. I am sure you didn't mean it this way but I want to point out that for many "DINKS" or those for whom not having children is a conscious choice, amassing material wealth is NOT the impetus for this decision. Because we don't have the expenses that come with children, we may have more material things than others who do to finance raising children, but it's just a bi-product of the decision.

As JCJD says quite well, it is, for most, a decision about the awesome responsibility of parenting and wanting to be a nurturer and caregiver to a child. I agree that in prior generations, many people probably didn't think about whether to have kids--it was just what you did. And birth control options were iffy years ago as well. I am sure many people would have had kids/wanted them anyway, but some I am sure weren't the best parents and might have benefited from more openmindedness aorund NOT havng kids.

Despite the fact that I have not reproduced or acquired a child to raise (which is clearly, for many people, the sign of a true woman of any value, my mother-in-law among them), I take my presence on this Earth quite seriously and have found ways to do good in this world and make my life meaningful in a way that is beyond myself, or my house, or my jewelry.

 

[widget]

Gosh, Jenn...

I''m sorry...I didn''t mean to offend anyone with my post...I was just expressing MY personal feelings in regards to how I feel (at this late date) about having raised kids!

The truth is, if I''d thought about it as much as people do today, I very well may have been a DINK too!

My perhaps unfortunate reference to jewelry and square footage was a response to this quote:

Author: WTNLVR
o.k., here goes. No kids, comfortable bank account, house worth more than that of any of our friends abutting a golf course and +3600 sf of living space (for 2 people). Home theatre complete with theatre seating and wet bar. New motorcycle, 2 beatiful wheaten terriers, and lots of gorgeous jewels. Now, that''s what not having kids gets you. Oh, yeh- no college tuition bills.

It sounded a little soul-less....perhaps I missed the sarcasm..

Anyway....SO SORRY if I offended anyone!

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[Jennifer5973]

Date: 8/2/2005 2:32:10 PM
Author: widget
Gosh, Jenn...

I''m sorry...I didn''t mean to offend anyone with my post...I was just expressing MY personal feelings in regards to how I feel (at this late date) about having raised kids!

The truth is, if I''d thought about it as much as people do today, I very well may have been a DINK too!

My perhaps unfortunate reference to jewelry and square footage was a response to this quote:

Author: WTNLVR
o.k., here goes. No kids, comfortable bank account, house worth more than that of any of our friends abutting a golf course and +3600 sf of living space (for 2 people). Home theatre complete with theatre seating and wet bar. New motorcycle, 2 beatiful wheaten terriers, and lots of gorgeous jewels. Now, that''s what not having kids gets you. Oh, yeh- no college tuition bills.

It sounded a little soul-less....perhaps I missed the sarcasm..

Anyway....SO SORRY if I offended anyone!

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No hard feelings at all! You have every right to share your views and I wrote "I am sure you didn''t mean it this way" and I truly meant that!

I have to admit I am hypersensitive about this whole issue. While I have all this respect for people who have kids and try to do it right, I often feel I get shocked reactions and lots of disrespect for MY decision not to have kids. Many people make me feel like I am less of a woman and a person for not wanting it. And I hate to say it, I think many people do really feel that way...like I said, my MIL is all about who is preggers, wants to be, or has their next kid... No one is ever interested in my professional achievments (which aside form making money do some good for people because of my industry), my interest in animal rescue, my charity work, or anything else (and FORGET about diamonds).

I guess I take issue with the attitude of "having kids is THE greatest thing in the world and if you don''t do it, well, then there is something seriously wrong with YOU." I just get that a lot.

 

[eks6426]

Well, I don''t truly fit this thread...but in a way my new husband and I do. I have a son from my first marriage. He is 8. My new husband (as of July 3) has a 15 year old son from his first marriage. Now that we got married people keep asking us when we are going to have an "our" child. We have both talked about whether we want an "our" kid a lot and have decided NO. Don''t get me wrong, we love our kids..but we''re also really grateful that the kids are somewhat independent. We have several friends who are just now starting their families and everytime we get home from spending time with friends with babies & toddlers we reconfirm our desire to not have any more kids. We really like traveling and doing adult activities like going out to eat at nice restaurants, wine tastings etc. Right now his son spends every other weekend with the mother and my son can spend time with his dad''s grandparents (dad died). If we have a kid of our own we''d be on 24/7. Are we selfish? Probably but at least we know it

 

[moremoremore]

Dancing Fire- more people should think about that before having kids. If you can't afford them, keep your knees together. Dig? It's disguisting to me...in the area I work...all of those very young, unwed mothers (and corresponding MIA fathers) with no education...and even those who are educated but can't make ends meet...then don't have kids. It's crazy!

I really don't think there is any obligaiton to procreate. LOL. You either want to or you don't. There are plenty of people out there who are keeping the population going...

 

[Mara]

I totally agree MMM...it''s beyond me why people have multiple children and then keep having them and are on welfare or similar....not to mention that condoms or birth control are all over the place now even if you can''t afford it there are free clinics etc.

 

[moremoremore]

Totally funny- I"m on line at the supermarket after work. I'm smelly and slimey and tired. There is a very very young woman in front of me with her baby. She used her public assistance card to get crab legs and amazing cuts of beaf and big expensive jugs of hawaiin punch (which qualifies as juice under the program)... She tried to use it to buy her cat food and kitty litter but that wasn't allowed. I was like YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME. In fact, I would have been more inclined to feed her cat. Like an ass, there I am with my "Starbuckles" coffee or hamburger meat..LOL..kidding...I don't even drink that but I think it's a riot that the market by me sells "starbuckels" coffee

OK, back to the orig question in the thread....why do I have no kids?
#1 I am mentally 13
#2 I can't afford to not work and just getting by each month is no way to live
#3 I don't want to work full time and have a child
#4 I am mental. I have issues with myself that I have been dealing with for years. I am hypersensitive and hubby says I have low self image...but whatever. I'm like...do I really want to have a kid so she can have my big feet and my man hands...and my thin hair...and my, etc. It's like...why on earth would I want to do that to someone. I think I'm actually doing my "baby" a favor by not having her/him to be brutally honest.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 8/1/2005 2:52:18 PM
Author: So.Cal Girl
When I started this thread, I was thinking that people would post about their decision--to reproduce or not to reproduce. I was hoping to get feedback from others letting me know if they regret their decision or are still strong. Plus, I love to hear about all the vacations, padded bank accounts, sleeping in and having breakfast in bed!

Any of that info out there?
Thanks guys!

I married my husband last year, and this month, I will be 40. We decided early on in our relationship not to have children. Neither of us want them. My husband *never* wanted them; I wanted them when I was younger and thought I wouldn't get a *chance* to have them, but at this age in my life, my priorities have changed. I don't want them now. We've never regretted the decision, and I don't think we ever will.

I want to be able to retire comfortably, and it's hard to imagine doing that if I'm footing college tuition bills in my early 60s.

We are able to enjoy the luxuries that come along with not having children. Those luxuries don't just entail money. We have the luxury of spontaneity--we can decide to go to Home Depot after work and roam around for an hour....and if we're hungry after that, we can go grab a bite before going home. We can decide today that we'd like to go see a movie tonight--instead of having to go next Saturday (even though when Saturday comes we might not feel like it) just because we've already hired a sitter. We don't have to cancel plans or incur a loss on tickets to a show because our sitter is sick or because she won U2 concert tickets at the last minute and decides to go to the concert instead of babysitting.

We have the luxury of each having time to ourselves, knowing that time to myself doesn't mean he's stuck with childcare duty. I don't have to feel guilty about going out for a few hours with my girlfriends, and I don't have to watch the clock to make sure I'm home within three hours.

When I come home from work at night, my time is mine. It's not spent feeding, bathing, and storytime-ing. I can actually sit down and read a book if I like. If I'm not in the mood to cook, no one suffers....my husband is very good with getting his own soup/sandwiches and fending for himself.

We can afford to vacation because we aren't paying staggering daycare costs or buying 4 pairs of sneakers a year to keep up with growing kids. When we do vacation, the dog goes to my parents' house for the week, and friends come by to look after our cats. My parents don't have to take the week off to watch the dog; they can still go to work, etc. without completely disrupting their lives.

If I happen to stay up really late on a weekend night, I can actually sleep in the next morning without remorse or disturbance. I can sleep in when I'm sick and don't feel well.

We have the luxury of peace-of-mind and security that comes from having a very healthy savings account. If something happens to change our situation job-wise, we can cover at least a year's mortgage and expenses without difficulty.

Oh.....and when I "go" someday, rest assured that I, too, will be leaving behind much much more than a nice jewelry collection or +3600 sq. ft. of living space. You don't have to bear children to touch lives and make a difference. I have many surrogates through nieces and friends' children, and I assure you I will leave an impact on their lives. Not having my own children means I will have not only the means to help contribute to their education but also the energy to contribute to their childhood experiences.....and maybe give their parents a break in the process.

 

[moremoremore]

Tuition is what, 40k a year minimum now? OMG.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 8/2/2005 2:49:54 PM

I guess I take issue with the attitude of ''having kids is THE greatest thing in the world and if you don''t do it, well, then there is something seriously wrong with YOU.'' I just get that a lot.

I can tell you that I get it a lot, too.....and my response is always "My choice may not be right for everyone, but it''s right for me. Just as your choice may not be right for everyone, and it''s not right for me, but it''s right for you."

I find it really amusing that people will ask why we don''t want children, and then proceed to tell us why our reasons aren''t valid.

 

[Jennifer5973]

Date: 8/2/2005 3:08:54 PM
Author: Mara
I totally agree MMM...it''s beyond me why people have multiple children and then keep having them and are on welfare or similar....not to mention that condoms or birth control are all over the place now even if you can''t afford it there are free clinics etc.

PULEEEEASE do not even get me started on this issue!

 

[Jennifer5973]

Date: 8/2/2005 3:23:14 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 8/2/2005 2:49:54 PM

I guess I take issue with the attitude of ''having kids is THE greatest thing in the world and if you don''t do it, well, then there is something seriously wrong with YOU.'' I just get that a lot.

I can tell you that I get it a lot, too.....and my response is always ''My choice may not be right for everyone, but it''s right for me. Just as your choice may not be right for everyone, and it''s not right for me, but it''s right for you.''

I find it really amusing that people will ask why we don''t want children, and then proceed to tell us why our reasons aren''t valid.

Yup. I don''t look down on people for having kids; to the contrary, I respect them and give them a lot of credit (unless it''s clear they are cr*ppy parents)...my attitude is NOT "oh, you have kids--you are stupid." Then, why have that view of MY choice?

 

[MrsFrk]

No one loves kids more than I do...I have been a nanny for years, and I spend a lot of my free time with my former charges, my friends'' children (often without the friends, I am good free babysitting!).

My husband and I have been together since the age of 18, and there are no kids in our future, for many reasons. A biggie is that I will be done with med school at age 35, and I do not want to have to compromise, and be a mediocre doctor and a mediocre mom (by my standards). I have fought long and hard to get to where I am. I know me- I would be a lousy full time mom. As a nanny, I meet them all the time; they love their kids, but need more, but don''t feel they can admit it, because you are damned if you do, damned if you don''t. The working moms judge the stay at home moms, the stay at home moms judge the working moms, and all the moms get on their horse and judge us childless by choicers.

I have helped raise many, many children, who love me and were shaped by my love and attention and morals. So I''m leaving a legacy, even if I didn''t birth them Sometimes I am just PARALYZED by the desire to have a baby with the man I love so, but more often I am paralyzed with TERROR at the idea of getting pregnant accidentally. We didn''t come to this decision lightly.

I think that it is foolish and simplistic to think that DINKS do not regret, sometimes, not having kids, and that people with children don''t similarly regret not having the freedom and spontaneity. Life is a compromise, nothing is so cut and dried.

 

[moremoremore]

WELL SAID!

I seriously tell people that I'm going for the guinness book record for world's oldest mother.

 

[MrsFrk]

I''ve been getting the "when are you having kids" question since I was about 18 1/2
Yeah, our phone just got turned off ''cause we don''t have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of, having kids is a FINE idea.

 

[moremoremore]

ROTFL!!!!!!

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 8/2/2005 5:12:53 PM
Author: MrsFrk
you are damned if you do, damned if you don''t. The working moms judge the stay at home moms, the stay at home moms judge the working moms, and all the moms get on their horse and judge us childless by choicers.

I loved all of your post - but this made me chuckle out loud. How true about soooo many things in life.

I''m been thinking. This is my thought

Having children is not a selfless act
Not having children is not a selfless act
Having children is not a selfish act
Not having children is not a selfish act

What is all comes down to = good parents to your children = selfless act. Notwithstanding the payback of a great grown kid.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 8/2/2005 3:05:26 PM
Author: moremoremore
Dancing Fire- more people should think about that before having kids. If you can't afford them, keep your knees together. Dig? It's disguisting to me...in the area I work...all of those very young, unwed mothers (and corresponding MIA fathers) with no education...and even those who are educated but can't make ends meet...then don't have kids. It's crazy!

I really don't think there is any obligaiton to procreate. LOL. You either want to or you don't. There are plenty of people out there who are keeping the population going...

agree 100%.

that's my point.why should tax payers support their kids.

 

[jellybean]

Date: 8/2/2005 6:29:58 PM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 8/2/2005 5:12:53 PM
Author: MrsFrk
you are damned if you do, damned if you don''t. The working moms judge the stay at home moms, the stay at home moms judge the working moms, and all the moms get on their horse and judge us childless by choicers.

I loved all of your post - but this made me chuckle out loud. How true about soooo many things in life.

I''m been thinking. This is my thought

Having children is not a selfless act
Not having children is not a selfless act
Having children is not a selfish act
Not having children is not a selfish act

What is all comes down to = good parents to your children = selfless act. Notwithstanding the payback of a great grown kid.

Very well said F&I.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 8/2/2005 3:17:01 PM
Author: moremoremore
Totally funny- I''m on line at the supermarket after work. I''m smelly and slimey and tired. There is a very very young woman in front of me with her baby. She used her public assistance card to get crab legs and amazing cuts of beaf and big expensive jugs of hawaiin punch (which qualifies as juice under the program)... She tried to use it to buy her cat food and kitty litter but that wasn''t allowed. I was like YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME. In fact, I would have been more inclined to feed her cat. Like an ass, there I am with my ''Starbuckles'' coffee or hamburger meat..LOL..kidding...I don''t even drink that but I think it''s a riot that the market by me sells ''starbuckels'' coffee

that''s what piss me off the most

.i can''t afford those crab legs and fillet mingons.

 

[MrsFrk]

FireandIce, I concur wholeheartedly.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 8/1/2005 8:46:54 PM
Author: WTNLVR
o.k., here goes. No kids, comfortable bank account, house worth more than that of any of our friends abutting a golf course and +3600 sf of living space (for 2 people). Home theatre complete with theatre seating and wet bar. New motorcycle, 2 beatiful wheaten terriers, and lots of gorgeous jewels. Now, that''s what not having kids gets you. Oh, yeh- no college tuition bills.

and no childs to kiss you every night, saying....i love you mommy.

 

[MrsFrk]

I get kisses every day from children who give me squeezer hugs and tell me that they love me.

I am not one of those childless people who lords around bragging about how great life is. Please don't be one of those parents who tries to convince us that life is hollow and pointless without them. There's room and a place for all of us.

 

[onedrop]

I am not in the DINK category, and this post is a bit off-topic, but I wanted to perhaps provide an explanation to MMM''s and DancingFire''s questions/statements. I too think that people should think before having children. It''s a big responsibility and not to be taken lightly. However, many people who have multiple children w/o having the financial means, are coming from a TOTALLY different perspective than those who have the children that they can afford. In many cases the multiple-children having people are mired deep in circumstances under which they have no control. Their financial and educational opporunities are limited and there is no expectation for them to succeed. So in essence they feel powerless. But the one thing that they feel that they have control over is their ablility to procreate. It''s the one thing in their lives that they CAN control.

This could definitely spiral into an endless debate about society''s responsiblity vs. the individual''s responsbility, and that was not my intention in posting. I felt compelled to post because I believe that it helps to bridge gaps by offering a little insight. I know people in this very situation (multiple children, low income, recipients of government assistance, etc.) and I often myself wondering "why." But when I take time to really think about things from their perspective I can understand better why they make certain choices.

 

[Mara]

Date: 8/2/2005 7:24:58 PM
Author: onedrop
So in essence they feel powerless. But the one thing that they feel that they have control over is their ablility to procreate. It''s the one thing in their lives that they CAN control.

I know people in this very situation (multiple children, low income, recipients of government assistance, etc.) and I often myself wondering ''why.'' But when I take time to really think about things from their perspective I can understand better why they make certain choices.

I''d love to hear about what type of perspective this is...because to me it makes absolutely NO SENSE to keep having kids when you can barely support or raise the ones you have nor can you better your situation. How is it a positive thing to have your kids malnourished and wearing threadbare clothes and having no jackets for winter because you want to feel like you can control your procreation?? This is one perspective I must be really missing.

 

[onedrop]

All I am saying is that being responsible about procreating or not is not at the top of the list for a certain sector of people. People who know better know that if you''re having 5 and 6 kids with no real income is irresponsible. People who don''t know better and don''t have opportunities for any advancement in life are not thinking seriously about the consequences of their actions.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 8/2/2005 7:10:19 PM
Author: MrsFrk
I get kisses every day from children who give me squeezer hugs and tell me that they love me.

I am not one of those childless people who lords around bragging about how great life is. Please don't be one of those parents who tries to convince us that life is hollow and pointless without them. There's room and a place for all of us.

i'm not trying to convince anybody.i get this feeling is teh other way around by reading this thread.so much more freedom,so much more wealth,live in a giant size mansion.i know my net worth is nothing compare to most of the members here but,if i can put my two daughters through college, then i would be so proud of myself b/c i'm so uneducated, barely made through H.S. and i don't give a S**T about my net worth,as long as i'm not starving.i know parents are a minority here.

 

[MrsFrk]

Did you read any of my previous musings? I have no bone to pick with parents. I respect their choices. However, we childless women are far, far more persecuted for our choices.