antique/vintage rings = I - M color stones

[stacy4232]

i''m currently searching for the perfect antique/vintage engagement ring. i''ve seen some beautiful ones on this site and was led to many great links!!

many of the vintage rings i''ve seen include a center solitaire made with an I - M color diamond. they are lovely - but it makes me curious. does anyone know why those colors were/are more popular with vintage style rings than they are with modern rings? (though i''ve seen modern rings with I-M stones that are also gorgeous - but it appears to me that F-H are the most popular colors for modern styled rings)

do those colors look better with the vintage style? or perhaps back in the 20s-40s, I - M stones were more available?

just curious.

 

[Hest88]

From what I understand, higher color stones were more often re-cut to modern standards, so there are more warmer color older diamonds around. I guess the owners thought it wasn't worth it to re-cut a lower color stone.

 

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Author: Hest88
From what I understand, higher color stones were more often re-cut to modern standards, so there are more warmer color older diamonds around. I guess the owners thought it wasn''t worth it to re-cut a lower color stone.

Apparently the same is true of fancy colored antique stones. You don''t see them often. It is my understanding that by recutting the old stones, one could actually improve the color grade a notch.

Here''re pictures of a 4ct diamond that was recently sold by Nelson Rarities. It is GIA graded "Fancy Yellow". By looking below the girdle in the profile shot, one can get an idea that it might have looked much ''yellower'' had it been recut.

IMO....thank heavens they didn''t!

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[JDgirl]

When I was looking for my antique stone, I was told that they tend to be I-M because the mines that the diamonds were coming from in those days produced warmer stones. Makes sense to me.

 

[stacy4232]

hmmm, all very interesting hypotheses. thanks you guys!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 2/9/2006 11:52:43 PM
Author: JDgirl
When I was looking for my antique stone, I was told that they tend to be I-M because the mines that the diamonds were coming from in those days produced warmer stones. Makes sense to me.

I have heard this too, plus with advertising campaigns most have been conditioned to think that the colourless diamonds are the only way to go - not so in my opinion. Warmer colours have their fans.

 

[blodthecat]

What is ''best'' is what appeals to you the most.

I personally like the warmer colors - they seem to be attracting a lot more interest on PS too at the moment. It''s the cut that is crucial to me!


Blod

 

[Lorelei]

Stacy have you checked out Fay Cullen? www.faycullen.com This website has lots of lovely old cut diamonds and vintage settings, check it out if you haven''t already done so.

 

[stacy4232]

i have checked out fay cullen. beautiful designs!

i have found that i like "warm" diamonds, but not when they approach too much of a yellow tint. do you guys have a color grade in your head (for GIA graded diamonds) where a warm diamond begins to look yellow? what i mean is, in your opinion, how "low" of a color grade can you go so that the diamond is warm, but does not face-up yellow?

 

[Lorelei]

Stacy this is a matter of opinion. If you look in show me the ring, check out the J colours which still look very white face up( GIA graded) such as Mara's, Sevens one's lovely K, Mrs Jams K, Lynn B's J etc, this should give you an idea. It also depends on the shape, a round will hide more colour than a radiant for example. Those folk I mentioned above are supremely happy with their diamonds, maybe if I was you I would look at J's and K's but it would be best to go to a jewellery store and check out the GIA graded colours for yourself so you can see what your comfort zone is. Don't forget that a great cut is the most important and with a warmer diamond will help it face up whiter. I have an L colour and it faces up very white to me in most lights, also don't forget you can see more colour in some lights than others. The industry also says that most lay people can begin to detect a hint of colour in an I and above, so maybe I and J might be a good place to start, then if you want more warmth look at K's and L's. M is normally where things start getting visibly warm. People interpret colour so differently, an H in some shapes may be too warm for some and icy white to others so do all you can to look in person to see what colour will make you happy.

 

[KittenKat]

I purchased my oec from SingleStone.com (In Los Angeles.) It''s an ''F'' in color, but I would have taken a ''J'' in a heartbeat. (I''ve told my hubby I''d love something over M )

I LOVE the warmer colored stones. They are gorgeous to my eyes. It''s really just what you prefer.

I''ve also heard that the whiter stones were re-cut to modern standards. (Such a shame too...)

 

[tiger007g]

I also recently bought a stone from Ari at Singlestone!

Your experience in seeing lower-colored antique stones is exactly what I found too.

I wanted a stone that would face-up white. Not necessarily an icy D-E-F-type of white, but I didn''t want a tinge of yellow to be the first thing you noticed about the stone. I think the slightly warmer color makes the stone look really charming.

To me, the effect is "softer". It''s like the many different shades of white that wedding dresses can come in - some are bright-bright-white (which I find a bit harsh), and others are less white, but are by no means ivory or yellow... Does the analogy work for anyone else or does it only make sense to me?

I ended up with a J/K antique cushion (will find out for sure after my appraisal tomorrow) and it faces-up really well. I also have a G-color H&A RB... and my cushion is only slightly warmer than my RB in most lighting situations. I can, however, see the slight yellow tinge from the side. Different stones, even of the same color grade, can face-up differently. He showed me 2 J-colored cushions that were about the same size, but one clearly looked whiter in a face-up position, even though they looked the same from the pavilion.

Trust your eyes. If you are trying to make an antique stone purchase over the internet, work with someone that you are comfortable with and whose professional judgment you trust. Ari sent me pictures of stones with different faceting patterns and l-w proportions until I said "Yes! That''s what I''m talking about!"and I sent him pictures (actually, some from this site) of different J-colored diamonds to show him the color I was looking for. It was a long search, but it worked out beautifully.

Good luck!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 2/10/2006 2:30:05 PM
Author: tiger007g
I also recently bought a stone from Ari at Singlestone!

Your experience in seeing lower-colored antique stones is exactly what I found too.

I wanted a stone that would face-up white. Not necessarily an icy D-E-F-type of white, but I didn''t want a tinge of yellow to be the first thing you noticed about the stone. I think the slightly warmer color makes the stone look really charming.

To me, the effect is ''softer''. It''s like the many different shades of white that wedding dresses can come in - some are bright-bright-white (which I find a bit harsh), and others are less white, but are by no means ivory or yellow... Does the analogy work for anyone else or does it only make sense to me?

Yes it makes sense to me, the warmer colours almost have a " candle" glow to my eyes which I like and yes the effect can be softer - yummy! For me in a well cut round, I have no need for a D E F etc, a warmer colour is just fine by me

 

[lumpkin]

To me cut has a lot to do with color. I love the warmer colors for old mine and old European cuts. Not so much for a princess cut and sometimes with pears or marquise stones because they tend to show more color at the tips, and I like my color to be relatively even. It also depends on the setting. And all "Ks" are not the same. Some have pure yellow, some have yellowish brown, some have grey, etc. Saying "faint yellow" is kind of a misnomer. If there is some blue flourescence it may help the diamond to face up whiter.

For the antique cuts anything looks beautiful to me. I love them icy and I love them tea stained, LOL!

 

[stacy4232]

i found several antique settings and full engagement rings that i loved on the antiqueengagementrings.com and faycullen.com websites.

does anyone know if there is a general rule as to whether on-line vendors (such as fay cullen or antiqueengagementrings.com) are firm with the prices they post on the internet or whether there is room for negotiation? there are rings that i am in love with that are each about 20% more than our budget for an engagement ring.

 

[widget]

I don''t know about those particular vendors...but I''ve found that quite often dealers online and off come down a bit from their listed prices.

Author: stacy4232

there are rings that i am in love with that are each about 20% more than our budget for an engagement ring.

Tell them this! It certainly doesn''t hurt to ask!

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[stacy4232]

true widget, definitely doesn''t hurt to ask.

i''m thinking that negotiating on-line with regard to loose diamonds may be less fruitful than negotiating for a "ready-to-wear" engagement ring. my understanding is that for loose diamonds, where the markup is generally 5-8% the vendor doesn''t have a lot of room to wiggle. however, i''m hoping that a vendor of a "ready to-wear" vintage ring (where the price includes the diamond and the setting) may have more wiggle room.

 

[solange]

I have a three stone OEC ring with stones around K-M--reall not sure.These stones sparkle like crazy but in a very different way than my modern Ideal cut stone.

The most beautiful part of the ring is the setting. They do not make them like that anymore and I think you should try to find a stone in its original setting.

I think I read here somewhere that there is greater value if the stone is in its original setting. My ring is pictured somewhere under my name but I do not know how to transfer pictures.Perhaps someone will do it for me so that you can see what i mean by the setting.

 

[fire&ice]

I thought warmer stones were more fashion desirable the first part of the century.

 

[tiger007g]

An update on my stone - after my appraisal last week, it turns out that my stone is in fact M-color. Under most light it is still very white, and I have decided to keep the stone.

My appraiser dated the cut style to 1840-1850s and he mentioned that the active diamond mines during that period tended to produce more warm-colored stones. (I think someone mentioned this hypothesis a little earlier in the thread).

 

[solange]

Date: 2/14/2006 4:03:33 PM
Author: fire&ice
I thought warmer stones were more fashion desirable the first part of the century.

That is very likely the case. The three stone OEC ring I inherited was an engagement ring belonging to someone who was very well to do and I was surprised that the stones were not a better color because diamonds were not that expensive then and I am sure she could have had the best available at the time. Although the stones are not great color, they are very high clarity

I wish I knew how to transfer pictures because the setting on this ring is so beautiful. The stones sparkle and people have come from across the room to see it. They pick up light in a different way and shoot out great blazes of rainbow colors and,, although large(total over 6 carats for the three stones) I doubt that they are of great value because of the color. The platinum seting has 40 tiny stones and a flowery and leafy pattern.

If you can find a beautiful OEC in K-M in its original setting, you would have a spectacular ring that would probably be a great deal cost wise and the value might even go up because so many of these old cuts have been recut and their original settings melted down.

When my ring was appraised seeral years ago, the appraiser did not think much of it. He suggested ihave the stones recut even though the color wasnot that good and get a modern setting. It was appraised at a ridiculously low price because it was"so old fashioned."

i hope someone will post a picture--it is under "SHow me the RIng" where I posted it as a comparison to my new, modern ring.

 

[tiger007g]

Solange -

Here you go!

I think you needed to find an appraiser with some expertise in antique jewelry/ diamonds!! Ha! I''m heartbroken to think that an appraiser could look at this gorgeous ring and recommend recutting...

 

[tiger007g]

Front view of Solange''s ring

 

[solange]

Thank you so much for posting my ring, tiger. For some reason, it looks smudgy but the stoens are all VVS.
I think these stones should be kept in their original settings because I do not think too many jewelers can reproduce this level of workmanship.

 

[glitterata]

As I've said before, I think that ring is absolutely heavenly and I hope you wear it a lot--particularly to places where I might happen to see it. I'll be the woman following you around staring at your hand.

 

[widget]

Stacy...I really agree with Solange:

.....the setting. They do not make them like that anymore and I think you should try to find a stone in its original setting.

There is something so special (to me) about a ring "with a history"...and I really have begun to believe these old ones are better made than modern reproductions...at least I''ve heard less about problems (losing melee, etc). They do come proven to have withstood the test of time!

Have you checked out www.nelsonrarities and www.singlestone.com ?

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PS...Solange! Gorgeous ring!