Another uncomfortable topic. Kind of.

[aljdewey]

Date: 6/27/2006 1:01:41 AM
Author:Gypsy

And I''ve never really been able to talk about this with anyone who is in a similar situation. So I thought I''d bring it up. If you have made this decision -- was it a hard one for you, and if you feel comfortable sharing the reason for making the choice would you mind sharing? And -- I don''t know if that''s the right way to say it... what I mean is... have you had to deal with bad reactions from people around you because of this choice.

Yes, hubby and I have made the decision not to have children. For him, he''s never wanted children, so it was pretty cut/dried.

For me, it involved a bit more self-examination. I desperately wanted them when I was younger (in my mid-20s). I think part of that desperation stemmed from feeling that I wouldn''t even have the opportunity to choose because I wasn''t in a serious relationship. Also, I wasn''t at the place in my life of enough financial independence to really even consider it anyway.

My 30s were a time of change. I became fiscally much more stable, and that had a profound effect on me. I could take vacations and travel. I could afford to do things that pleased me. I realized that I''d likely remain single and embraced it. I knew that meant I''d likely be childless, and I accepted that too.

Near the end of my 30s, I met my (now) husband. I gave much thought to the topic of children, and realized that my feelings had changed through my life experiences.

So, to answer your questions:

Was it a hard decision? No. It was actually a pretty easy decision; I just had to really be honest with myself about what I want. What I''m willing to do, what I''m willing to give up, what I''m capable of, what my limitations are, and what''s important to me now.

Reasons for my choice? There were several..... a few, in no particular order:

--- I''m older; I don''t have the energy/tolerance I did when I was in my mid 20s. If I chose to parent, I would want to do it with enthusiasm and energy.
--- I don''t want it the way I used to. My tolerance/patience has changed. Some people love the cacophony that comes with a rowdy, child-filled house, and those are people who should truly have children. I''m not one of those people now.
--- The enormity of what it takes to parent today. When I was a kid, it was safe for neighborhood kids to go trick-or-treating together without a parent present, and the worst thing that happened in school was a fist-fight. My folks didn''t worry about Columbine-like events or sex offenders, and things like Myspace.com didn''t exist. Moreover, then, I knew if I did something out of line that Sally''s mother would call my mother about it; parenting seems much more of a societal effort then. My personal perception (accurate or not) is that it doesn''t seem to exist as the norm today.
--- Children are expensive. It took me a long time to hit my stride to reach financial stability, and I wouldn''t be able to maintain that position if we had children.
--- I completely relish the freedom we have now...both financial and schedule-wise. We can decide spur-of-the-moment to go out to dinner because we feel like it. We can afford to, and we don''t have to worry about soccer games or daycare limitations, etc.
--- I''m 40 years old. I don''t want to be facing college tuition bills when I''m knocking on the door of retirement age. If I''m working at 70, I want it to be because I choose to, and not because I HAVE to because cannot afford to retire post-tuition, etc.
--- You aren''t a parent for 18-22 years; you are a parent for life. I don''t want to possibly resent my loss of privacy/space if my kid needs to move home after college.
--- I don''t want to even risk becoming a "de facto" parent of a toddler at age 62/63 in the event my kid turns out to be an irresponsible parent him/herself.
--- Being a good parent is all consuming. It means 24/7 responsibility. After a full day at work, it means then feeding, bathing, homework, bedtime stories, and the requisite hour of "I have to pee, I need water, there''s a monster under my bed". That doesn''t include playdates, birthday parties, 3x weekly soccer games, Boy/Girl Scouts, etc. It''s a HUGE commitment, and it means a complete change to one''s life. I enjoy my present lifestyle too much to give it up completely, and I can''t have both....they cannot co-exist.

Has it been a decision that has been difficult for you to defend....have you had to deal with bad reactions from people around you because of this choice?
I think there are some people who do feel as though they need to defend their choices, so that''s probably accurate for some. Personally speaking, I fall more into the camp of ''I don''t feel like I have to defend my choices to anyone else''.

Thankfully, my friends/family trust my judgment, so I don''t get that kind of pressure/second-guessing from the people who really count. When it comes, it usually comes from people we know casually.

Having said that, when someone has asked why I''ve decided not to have children and I DO share my reasons, I find three fairly standard reactions from those who don''t agree with choosing a childless life. One is the "oh, you''ll change your mind/you''ll feel differently later/you''ll regret it later" response, which really irritates the crap out of me. It''s patronizing, and it assumes that everyone MUST eventually want children. My standard response to that has become "well, I HIGHLY doubt it, but thank goodness if that happens, it will be *my* regret and not yours."....said with a smile. Usually ends that line of conversation.

The second response comes from the "campaigners"....those who will contest the validity of the reasons I''ve given and feel the need enlighten me about how the rewards of parenting will outweigh all of those reasons. My response in those situations is "I appreciate that you''ve shared your insight with me, even though it hasn''t compelled me to change my position. I''m glad, though, that you do enjoy being a parent."

The third is the "who''ll take care of you when you''re old" admonition. My response to this varies. If the person is being nice about it, I''ll be candid and say "I''ll take care of me, just as I''ve done all along. Having children is no guarantee; they don''t have to take care of you, and some don''t." If the person is being contentious/adamant/preachy about it, I''m a bit more snarky. Then, my response is "I''ll be taken care of by the person I''ll PAY to take care of me......who will be paid with all the money I didn''t have to spend on children."

There is no one "right" choice for everyone. Some people are well-suited to parenthood, and others aren''t. Some want to take on that responsibility, and some don''t. Thankfully, my choices only apply to me, and not to everyone else.....and vice versa.

 

[fire&ice]

When someone asks if we have children, I simply reply "No, we weren''t blessed -but were blessed with the four legged variety." The first part of the statement throws them for a loop on what to say. The second part usually brings a smile to their face. They ask about my dogs. I ask them about their children.

When we were closer to child bearing age, when ask "when we were having them". I simply said "it just hasn''t been/isn''t in the cards or stars for us".

Honestly, why can''t people accept at face value any VERY PERSONAL decision. One''s motives shouldn''t be an issue. Most of the times there are plenty of reason people choose to have children; and subsequently, plenty of reasons why people choose not to have children.

To anyone who thought we would change our minds, we didn''t. For anyone who thought we would regret it, we don''t. Doesn''t mean that children don''t bring a joy to my heart. And, I think with any decision - one will have pangs of "regret/did I do the right thing". I know at trying times, my truthful friends will have that moment. Doesn''t last for long on either side of the fence.

 

[ephemery1]

I already replied to this topic, but I just have to state again... I am APPALLED that people make judgmental comments to those of you who''ve chosen not to have children. It is incomprehensible to me that somebody could be so self-righteous to just ASSUME that their choice to have children is automatically "right", and gives them the authority to tell you that your personal choice is wrong?? There are just too many narrow-minded people out there, and those are exactly the ones who SHOULDN''T be raising kids, in my opinion. And furthermore... how selfish is it to imply that a reason for having children is so you have somebody to take care of you later?? It''s not an insurance policy... it''s a LIFE!! Good grief... I get so frustrated by self-righteousness. More power to all of you!!

 

[FireGoddess]

I personally don''t care whether others choose to have children or not - it is absolutely a personal choice and unless someone confides in me or tells me something of their own volition, I do not ask because it''s a private issue and none of my business!

I have been married for almost 3 years now and we get the question ALL the time. Are you pregnant? Are you trying? Especially DH''s friends, family, and culture....they just have babies on the BRAIN, from the day you say ''I do.'' Several people have even ASKED DH whether there''s something WRONG with him because I''m not pregnant yet. Uh, hello? We''re not even trying, not that it''s any of their business!! I mean, how rude! We do want to have children at some point, but not yet. Not that it''s their business when, or if that happens.

 

[Gypsy]

I have been reading all of your replies... and I am so touched by all of your personal stories and the advice you''ve posted here ... not just for me... but for everyone else that is making this important decision. I don''t know what to say except... it''s just so wonderful to know that I''m not alone. The people in my life who accept the choice are well... understanding. My mother loves children herself... but has never been surprised by my choice... or tried to convince me it''s wrong. She knows that it is a right decision for me. FMIL... well, I think she hopes that we''ll change our minds but has resigned herself to the decision. My friends... well... the other day a friend of mine (who used to be a good friend... but well... hasn''t been much of one for a long time) and I were talking. She''s not dating anyone right now and is the same age I am (30) and she''s stressed about it... and wants children very badly... and even though I''ve known her for 9 years and she knows that I''ve never wanted them she kept saying things like... ''my biological clock is ticking... you know? I just want a baby so bad.... you know what I mean...." And finally I said, "honey, I don''t know. We don''t want children." And she was FLOORED (

) she said, "wow, you still feel that way? I thought you''d have gotten over that by now...." And the implication was that she thought I''d have matured beyond that ''juvinille'' view point. And well... I was so grateful for this thread because I didn''t feel bad at all... didnt'' doubt myself... or wonder if it something I should ''get over.'' It was a very liberating feeling. All I said in response was, "Nope."

Thank you all for that.

 

[Small]

Date: 7/6/2006 6:56:59 PM
Author: ephemery1
I already replied to this topic, but I just have to state again... I am APPALLED that people make judgmental comments to those of you who''ve chosen not to have children. It is incomprehensible to me that somebody could be so self-righteous to just ASSUME that their choice to have children is automatically ''right'', and gives them the authority to tell you that your personal choice is wrong?? There are just too many narrow-minded people out there, and those are exactly the ones who SHOULDN''T be raising kids, in my opinion. And furthermore... how selfish is it to imply that a reason for having children is so you have somebody to take care of you later?? It''s not an insurance policy... it''s a LIFE!! Good grief... I get so frustrated by self-righteousness. More power to all of you!!

Very well said

I agree whole heartedly!

 

[diamondfan]

Gypsy, I think it takes a lot of courage to decide not to, and just would be worried if you changed your mind could you have them? But of course you two can have a full and wonderful life either way. It is all about what you both want. I feel badly for couples where they either both agree not to or to and one changes his/her mind after the marriage, or someone gets married knowing the other person feels differently and they try to change them. Sad either way, and tough for a marriage to survive that, I would think.

I have three kids. While my parents were not ultra strict, we were taught how to behave. I teach my kids to have compassion, to have empathy, to be kind, polite, helpful...if they are a guest in someone''s home, they ask permission to do things, do not leave a mess and say please and thank you. They share their things and are generous in how they treat their friends. Of course they are also typical kids and can be stinkers about stuff, but when they are not around me and my hubby, I know they are pretty great...they get asked back time and again to friends homes and people tell us how nice they are. Even my four year old is wonderful in a store or on a long plane ride, most of the time! (not bad for 4, he is more well behaved than my mother in law, but that is another thread!) I always knew I wanted kids, but do agree that many parents these days are more like womb donors who then spend precious little good time with their kids. Then, of course, the kids act out, and the parents seem SO suprised that their kids are brats. I have had kids in my home who dump all the toys out and then leave, tell me to get them a drink like I am their servant...no please or thank you...who complain when I have just paid for dinner, a movie and treats...and it does not take me long to decide not to deal with the again. Funny thing is, I love kids and always wanted them, and do not think they are little adults nor do I think they should not be allowed to act like kids...BUT I find mostly I am appalled by people''s kids behaviors and how the PARENTS stand there with their thumb up their you know what, either totally ignorant as to their kid''s actions or paralyzed as to how to stop it. I have flown with a kid kicking the back of my seat and screaming and the parents do not stop the kid, and I have to literally turn around and glare at the parent and say to the kid, "Please stop kicking my seat." I have been in movies where parents have young kids who should not be there (not age appropriate film, too late of a showing) and they sit there while the kid misbehaves or carries on, and do not leave the theater with them. It seems like some people are pretty lazy or clueless. It is not the kids fault, but they end up being raised poorly and then it is a mess all around.

 

[littlelysser]

Yay Gypsy!

 

[Gypsy]

I agree that it''s the parents and not the children, DF... one of my neices is over right now and she has APPALLING table manners (appaling manners period). She''s 12. My FSIL is a womb donor. Drives me up the freaking wall. When her kids come over FI and I have ''parent'' them. FSIL doesn''t care if we do it... just rolls her eyes because she thinks that because we don''t have kids we don''t realize what ''normal'' kid behaviour is. Frankly, the woman is a cow. Which is mean to cows.

We are sitting down to dinner and because of the way her mother raised her she can''t eat what everyone else is eating (pet peeve of mine)... so I make her something separate. And I hand her the plate (linguini with red sauce) and tell her to take it to her seat. I haven''t served anyone else... nor is anyone at the table but her. She takes a HUGE forkful.. raises it above her head with the pieces hanging down then starts chopping on it (mouth open) from the bottom up. I was shocked-- DF and I have had table manner discussions with her in the past because at her house its trough feeding and when they come over I expect manners-- I said her name. She ignored me. I said her name loudly and firmly. She paused-- her mouth open linguini hanging out... and says "what?" I just raised an eyebrow (I didn''t even know where to start) and she truned red... put the fork down (mouth stil full) says sorry. Waits while I bring the food to the table, and we sit... all the while she is playing with her food round and round her plate she swishes it-- until DF says ''don''t play with your food.''... then she stops that and starts slurping on her drink.

Honestly... she''s not a brat either... her sisters are... but this one tries to be a good kid and usually suceeds... but I her eating habits are just frightful... her parents don''t care (about that or anything else) and I can''t imagine what happens when she goes over her friends houses for dinner. I couldn''t even finishe my dinner because once we started eating-- oh.. I won''t go into it was disgusting.

And this has nothing to do with my having kids or not (although I can tell you FSIl would NEVER babysit)... just a sad commentary on child rearing today.


ls: THANKS HONEY!

 

[diamondfan]

I am sure it will be exactly as you and your guy want it to be. Gypsy, that is my point...I think kids need to be kids, I do not expect that they are miniature grown ups, but common courtesy and such would seem to indicate that you can teach them manners, etc. A kid would not know the right and wrong of it without it being told, and more vitally, MODELED, by the parents. Copying a parent or other adult is a key way of learning, so I do not fault the kid normally. If they were not shown or told, how can they begin to get it, unless they are around people other than the parents who show them the right stuff. I love kids and wanted them, but there a few of my friends kids that I would want to hang with...I enjoy my kids (and yes, they have their moments, which I try to correct) but do not relish going out with friends whose kids are poorly behaved, spoiled, obnoxious etc. My four year old knows to say please and thank you whereever we are, and likes to talk to adults, he says, excuse me, my name is Jordan, what is your name? and usually a whole hysterical conversation ensues. Too cute. I am not afraid to tell my kids NO. I am not their pal right now, I am their parent. I have a job to do, and of course we can have lots of fun and love and affection, but I would be failing in my duties and being unfair to them if I copped out all the time because it is easiest. I pick my battles, and hope, when all is said and done, we can be friends...but right now I am the mom and my job is not to just give in or let them run things. It may seem like they want it, but I think a kid knows when limits are imposed and a parent stands firm on the serious issues that it is done out of love and out of wanting to teach something for the long term. And, yes, I have a nanny, but I am with my kids, I almost always have one with me in the after school times, if not two or all three...I do think you can still be a great parent even if you need some assistance. (I accepted long ago that my dh works a ton and great dad though he is, he is not there for a lot of the details and I have some health issues, more minor but still tough, and I need the help. I spend good time with each of my kids, they know who their mom is and I can be more efficient that way!)

 

[fire&ice]

I donno - I may be flamed for this - but kids are different regarding eating. I have friends whose children summered in foreign countries - they act the same - they want what they want to eat. Eating to a child is one of the first things (like potty training) that they can control in their lives. You can expect a child to behave during dinner - but you can''t expect them to eat as we do.

 

[Mara]

hehe F&I that so wouldn''t fly in our house...greg was raised really strictly (as was i) re: eating what your parents tell to eat, and when to stop eating kind of thing. of course it doesn''t always work (i would rebel) but in general i don''t subscribe to the kids get to eat whatever they want thing OR bad table manners.

but gypsy, what you hit on is what i also have an issue with, child rearing today...it seems so much more lax than when i was a kid. you can obviously control what goes on in your own house but elsewhere?

 

[surfrgrl]

Gypsy, you''re fine. I''ll try to make this a quick comment from someone who is at the other end of the spectrum, that is, I am 47 and never had kids, and with each year I am more convinced we made the right decision.

I never had that yearning for kids, maybe because I was the baby in my family. When I got married in late 20''s and the bio clock tick-tocked, I realized more than ever that the desire for children wasn''t there (and DH was fine with that). What I desired more was a very close and intimate, emotionally fulfilling partnership with my husband. We both had/have challenging careers, traveled, developed interests and friendships, have built a very wonderful life together. Our marriage has had its ups and downs, but we worked hard at it when we had to and I think I can say we have one of the strongest and most fulfilling marriages I know of -- it gets better with each passing year. And when we entered our 40''s and really began to enjoy the fruits of 2 decades of hard work, it became clear there were special opportunities open to us as a child-free couple, and we have embraced that freedom and made the most of it. And we feel we''ve only explored the tip of the iceberg.

The irony is that we are around kids quite often. We have 9 nieces and nephews, 4 great-nieces and nephews, and our best friends'' 8-year-old is probably closer to us than anyone except his parents. We are blessed with these relationships and the fullness they contribute to our lives. I marvel at, and respect the commitment of parents. Both the ones that do it so well, and the ones that are obviously struggling.

Bottom line is, go with your heart and your instincts. Try your best to filter what others may think or say through the "what''s right for you" filter. In the end, if you have a happy and fulfilling life, what else really matters?

 

[Gypsy]

DF... with all due respect. There is one thing about your post that is raising a flag for me. There seems to be an assumption in them (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that the decision to not have kids is somehow influenced by the behaviour of parents and children we see. Speaking for myself, it's not. I like kids now... I even enjoy them. Spending time with well behaved children does nothng to kindle the maternal urges in me. Nor does spending time with badly behaved children do anything other than fill me with contempt with their parents. I was not intending this post to become a critique of modern child rearing.

In fact, I'd like to avoid that as it seems that in the other posts discussing the decision whether or not to have children... discussions of childrearing lead to some very hot posts... which we have managed to avoid thus far.

And I would like to continue to do so.

I am glad your children are well behaved. And is we ever meet, it would be my pleasure to spend time with them. But I would really rather avoid this line of discussion in this thread.


ETA: Let's please not discuss child rearing or anything that is even remotely flame worthy on this thread. Let's all keep it civil. PLEASE. It was my mistake to delve into that discussion and I would recant my foray.

 

[Maria D]

Date: 7/6/2006 10:10:43 PM
Author: Gypsy
well... the other day a friend of mine (who used to be a good friend... but well... hasn''t been much of one for a long time) and I were talking. She''s not dating anyone right now and is the same age I am (30) and she''s stressed about it... and wants children very badly... and even though I''ve known her for 9 years and she knows that I''ve never wanted them she kept saying things like... ''my biological clock is ticking... you know? I just want a baby so bad.... you know what I mean....'' And finally I said, ''honey, I don''t know. We don''t want children.'' And she was FLOORED (

) she said, ''wow, you still feel that way? I thought you''d have gotten over that by now....'' And the implication was that she thought I''d have matured beyond that ''juvinille'' view point.

This is a perfect example of what I meant when I said "people''s reactions are about them, not you." Here you and your husband are living a contented life while your friend pines away about what she doesn''t have and somehow *you* have to get over *your* feelings?! Sounds to me like she needs to get over her biological clock or start considering single parenthood!

Just so you know Gypsy, not every woman who is a mom ever heard the tick. If I didn''t accidentally get pregnant at 32 I''m sure I never would have decided to have a child. This is likely why DH & I only had one....there was no tick or tock (or any other accidents). This doesn''t mean I am not grateful for how things turned out, or course. But I htink it makes me unsympathetic to all this "biological clock" nonsense, er, I mean "business."

 

[diamondfan]

Gypsy, I did not mean to imply that your choices were based on that...I think somewhere in the thread there was a comment made about how kids are today and the differencesfrom the past, and I was making a more general comment about what I have noticed too, vis a vis when I was growing up. I was speaking from the perspective of someone who has kids, liked them before I had them and always wanted them, and still I find myself shocked today. It was more of a general comment and less about any one person's personal choices. There are many reasons not to have children, it is personal, and I respect and applaud anyone who is strong enough in themselves to know what they want and not bow to pressures from the outside world. I did not mean to imply that your choices were based on any of the things I was speaking of, not at all. I was just thinking about all the various issues about those choices that one makes in life, what is behind them, how people around view the decisions others might make, and it sort of spun from there in my head based on an earlier observation. It evolved more from shock about how I see kids around me behave, and being, admittedly, a bit stunned and disappointed... I certainly did not mean to assume anything about your situation!

PS: I think it is also just RUDE to expect people to justify their decisions regarding something so personal. When you put someone on the spot (like newly marrieds who get barraged with When are you having kids?) you just do not know someone's personal story. Such as infertility, or being afraid to have children because of an illness, etc...I mean, it is just one of those questions that people feel entitled to ask others, with no sensitivity and with the assumption that something is wrong or will be missing in the life of someone who does not have children. Just so presumptious in my opinion...but I LOVE Fire and Ice's comment, because it shuts people up while getting them to ask about something else! Bravo!

 

[Gypsy]

Diamond Fan... no worries! I wasn''t sure, that''s why I asked. And I can see what you meant... I just well, I guess I''m a little sensitive. Sorry.

I am often dissappointed by the parents I see. But then, I''m pretty sure I''m a disappointment to my parents. As for people being rude... fact of life. LOL. Does it make me angry? Well, it would if I let it, but my anger wouldn''t change anything so... no it just makes me careful.

Maria... that''s interesting to hear because, well.. while DF and I are pro-choice. He personally would never want us to have an abortion. I don''t know what we''d do if we had to make a choice for ourselves. I hope that if there was a slip and we had to make a choice that whatever that choice was, we wouldn''t have regrets about it. But I think... well, there might always be regrets, no matter what a person decides in that situation.

 

[diamondfan]

Gypsy, I just would not want any misunderstanding between us! I have always enjoyed reading your posts and having exchanges with you. No need to apologize about being sensitive, it is hard not be a bit sensitive when people are boorish and obnoxious about your personal choices...to have to defend that is pretty tiring I am sure! It certainly might have "sounded" or come off differently than I intended, because I ran with the topic in a different direction and it was fine for youto voice any concerns...I am happy to clarify it! And again, I really have utmost respect for people who know what they want...even if no one around them can seem to get it!

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 7/11/2006 11:05:15 PM
Author: diamondfan
Gypsy, I just would not want any misunderstanding between us! I have always enjoyed reading your posts and having exchanges with you. No need to apologize about being sensitive, it is hard not be a bit sensitive when people are boorish and obnoxious about your personal choices...to have to defend that is pretty tiring I am sure! It certainly might have ''sounded'' or come off differently than I intended, because I ran with the topic in a different direction and it was fine for youto voice any concerns...I am happy to clarify it! And again, I really have utmost respect for people who know what they want...even if no one around them can seem to get it!

I feel the same way DT.

Very much so.

Thank you for taking the time to clarify for me... I do appreciate it. As for no one around them. I really am blessed that my mother get it. She can make my life a living hell when she sets her mind to it, and has. So that''s the biggest plus of the situation. And well... other people. If they are close by choice (friends) well, if they get obnoxious it''s very easy to put distance there... and if they aren''t close... well, better to ignore them-- especially now that I''ve talked it through with you all and am feeling much more at ease. As for family... well, fortunately DF''s family respects him enough to keep things down to an occasional murmer. And in my family... everyone takes their cues from my mother... except my grandmother, and well, I love her and she''s too old to change--so it''s in one ear... and out the other.

 

[diamondfan]

Thanks! I am glad that airing it here has been helpful. Sometimes, knowing people do understand makes such a difference. That is one of the greatest things about this site, it really can have an impact other than regarding diamonds!

iI guess I just get annoyed in life when people constantly expect to be given in depth personal detail about someone else''s decisions. You just do not know what is going on in someone''s life, and it can be really hurtful to put someone on the spot. It is one of those topics that people feel within their rights to comment on even with strangers! I am glad your mom understands. That helps take some pressures. In the end, as long as those close to you understand, the rest is not so important!!!

 

[Gypsy]

Very True DF. How are things with you BTW?

 

[partgypsy]

Gypsy, I can really identify with your feelings and views. Personally, I feel that the size of population of humans on the planet we are in no danger of dying out and no one should feel the need to propagate the species. The only argument FOR doing it is if one really wants to do it out of some deep personal fulfillment. So, part of me feels ambivalent, where here I am having my second child because the first was a highlight of my life, some may applaud me because it is the norm and it is personally sacrificing (time, money, other interests) but at the same time I realize it is also selfish in the global sense because the world is having a hard enough time supporting the human beings that already exist on this planet and knowing whatever resources I and my children use is taking away or displacing other animals on this planet.

 

[partgypsy]

I didn''t mean to sound so negative! I should emphasize I have no regrets, because as far as I know I only have one life, and this is something I really want to do in my life. I hope to raise my children to be a force of good in this world.
I guess I am trying to say having children shouldn''t be the default assumption.

 

[ladykemma]

kid free here. 43 years old. menopausal.

my clock ticked. so did hubby's. did the whole fertility work thang. Last cycle of fert drugs I was catatonic and didn't get out of bed. I said "No More, I'm done". hubby and doc tried to convince me to keep trying. "you're quitting too soon.... "

My heart and my soul said "Stop". Adoption or fostering wasn't inthe cards for us because both of us are recovering addicts and have been in therapy for various family of origin issues. My hubby is still grieveing the no babies.

As a member of the mormon LDS church, there is a big emphasis on kids. I used to sit and cry in church. No More. They are very insensitive and disrespectful to inferile women. Also during that time they were an inordinate number of mothers in our ward who had no life and were were on antidepressants. hmmm. I think It's part of the reason I don't go anymore- I'm very inactive.

Anyway, I have found peace. The very day after I said "No More" God surprised us with "Hey, how would you like to move to London UK for a year. You have two weeks notice". What a consolation prize.

I think women grieve during the process. men grieve after. I was done grieving and ready to have a life.

When i came back I did a career change, found borrowed kids and became a high school teacher. Now I parent 180 kids.

 

[Gypsy]

Part Gypsy--- I don''t think you were disrespectful. Just firm.

Lady K-- I''m so sorry for what you went through. In college the LDS church was very active among my group of friends, and I used to attend some of their services... there is a VERY STRONG emphasis on the family unit and children... and I mentioned once that I didn''t want children in passing and it was a very negative experience for me... so I can''t imagine how I''d feel in your shoes there. I''m glad that you found the strength in yourself to stop when you knew in your heart it was time too. And I''m sorry that your husband has the regrets he has.

I will say that IMO... being a strong role model, mentor, and confidant to a large group of children is a wonderful thing. There are highschool professors of mine that I still, at 30, visit when I go home. outside of my family they have had the most impact on me. And well... so many of the children in our school system are forgotten or ignored by their parents... you are doing parenting... the hardest and most important part of it... even if the conceiving wasn''t in the cards for you. I hope that it''s as rewarding as it was for my teachers... the ones who I still talk to loved teaching and loved shaping our lives.

 

[firebirdgold]

I''ve never even thought about having to defend our decision to other people! I guess there''s a good chance we''ll have to do it once we''re married.
My mother has already (mostly) accepted that all her grandbabies will be furry. (my dad''s keeping his mouth shut). But his parents have no idea. Not that it''s a final decision yet, but I think that''s the way we''re heading.
I''ve always been extremely ambivelent about having children. I have not desire to and I''m not very fond of them, not even my friends'' kids. My mother always says that I''ll change my mind once I have them.. but that seems awfully chancy to me.
My fi always assumed that he''d get married and have kids just like his folks. But I think he''s starting to seriously change his mind. And quite frankly, I''m not sure either of us would make good parents. It''s probably about 90% sure now that we won''t have children.

My sister likes kids, is amazing with them, and does not want one. I think she''s said it so much that no one even questions her about it anymore. (although mom hasn''t given up all hope.)

So the decision not to have kids is really based on wether or not you like children. I''m not sure what it''s based on, but I do know that it''s a growing trend. I suspect that it''s a combination of people getting married later and the fact that we truly do have a choice is only sinking all the way in in this generation.

 

[MrsFrk]

I was reading through a Stanford reunion book...all of these bios of folks who graduated from Stanford 20+ years ago.
I was struck by how many of the women are now SAHMs, many of whom went to grad school, there were dozens of doctors. It made me quite sad...while I''m sure they love their children and some of them are quite content- it just seemed like a lot of wasted potential. A lot of really good brains missing from the mix. Really good female brains. I wish that our society was in a place where a woman who is a Stanford MD would not have to deal with questions like "when are you gonna have kids!!!???" and could make her contribution to humanity in some way besides her womb. We''re never going to achieve any sort of parity when so many of our best and brightest drop out of the intellectual world due to motherhood. I adore children, in fact I am a nanny, but I am not interested in having children of my own. I am going to med school, rather late, and I feel/hope that I can contribute to society and the children of the world in some significant way. I have met so many frustrated moms in my nanny travels. They love, love, love their babies, but are just not fulfilled by only being mom, and many of them have spouses who make enough so that being a SAHM "just made sense". Except for that they are dying inside.

I hope that society can evolve to the point where we can acknowledge that the world needs loving devoted mothers, and also women who pursue their chosen career instead of motherhood, and that both paths are equally necessary and valid.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I totally agree this is a personal decision and no one else''s business. Truly, I wish every child entering the world would be wanted and deeply loved. And I think it is very rude for people to ask when someone is going to start a family. It would at least be better to ask if they are ever thinking of having children to sound less judgmental. I think if it were me, I''d answer that we haven''t made a decision yet and keep saying that until the childbearing years have passed! I do not think that it is necessary to answer a rude question with a rude answer. Oh wait. I think I have a better answer..."God has not sent us one yet." Now what can they say to that?!!!

The greatest joy and the greatest sorrow in my life has been caused by my children. I love them deeply and wouldn''t change our decision. However, I will say to all of you, sometimes things change over time, so I''d never, ever make a decison in my 20''s (such as permanent birth control) that couldn''t be changed. My sister married at age 34 and they decided they were ready for a baby at 40. So a few people do change their minds sometimes.

As for us, we had our first two children in our 20''s...a boy and girl. We decided then that we wanted no more kids so my husband had a vasectomy. No regrets. But in our late 30''s I kept seeing news shows about all the kids in foreign orphanges and it absolutely broke my heart. It was an overwhelming feeling that we had so much to offer a child who had no one to love them. So we ended up adopting a precious baby girl from China at age 40. She has brought more joy to us than I can express. It still brings tears to my eyes to type this. I immediately wanted to return for another child, but my husband said that 3 kids was enough. I continued to ask him for a couple more years, but he consistently said no. I believe the decison to have children should be a joint decision, so I eventually accepted that our family was complete. (And he was right, by the way!)

What we have done since that time is to sponsor an orphaned child through Holt International and we have donated to others trying to adopt internationally. For those interested in doing that, the Christian singer, Steven Curtis Chapman and his wife, have started a charity which helps people financially who are trying to adopt (they''ve adopted at least 3 children from China themselves). While we do not all choose to have children, it seems to be reasonable to me for those of us who are able to help the needy children already on this earth. There is another foundation that helps to improve the condition of orphanages in China which I''ll link as well. I can''t help but mention these in hopes that maybe there is one person out there who will be drawn to help. It is such a compelling thing that I just have to mention it when the opportunity arises.

http://members.shaohannahshope.org/

http://www.halfthesky.org/

Hugs to you, Gypsy! I respect your decision whatever it may be.