Another drinking thread....advice requested

[House Cat]

Phoenix,

I am so very happy to hear this news!! Congratulations on all that you have accomplished!! Big hugs to you!!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Yay, awesome update, Phoenix!!!

 

[asscherisme]

I drank in college and then drank into my early 20's. I would drink to get drunk at parties (but was responsible about it and never drove). However I did make some not so great decisions when drinking and that scared me. When I got pregnant with my first child, I made a decision to never drink again. Not one drop. I was never an alcoholic, not close, but I grew up with 2 alcoholic parents and alcohol destroyed my childhood and I was very very abused at the hands of my alcoholic parents. So I gave up alcohol to set an example to my kids and break the cycle. I decided I never wanted my kids to see me drink and I was very concerned about them inheriting an alcoholic gene (my ex husbands mother was also an alcoholic, so they had 3 our of 4 grandparents alcholics). I came to the conclusion also how could I warn my kids about alcohol and the genes for alcoholism if they saw me drinking.

I haven not had one sip of alcohol in 20 year (my oldest is 19) and have no desire now its been so long. My teens tell me they respect that I am living the message I am teaching them. I don't intend to ever drink again. Some may find this extreme, but given what I grew up with, and given that I fear my kids might have inherited an alcoholic gene, its how I have choosen to live my life.

I admire that you recognize there is an issue and want to do something. That in itself takes strength. I have a lot of respect for you.

 

[Phoenix]

Thank you, everyone, for your wonderful support.

 

[Phoenix]

I have a Q. This time it's not for me, it's for a friend.

This person normally binge-drinks. They can go for days without drinking and then once they start drinking, they can't stop. I've seen this person drink on a few occasions, something like:

i) 15 glasses of wine + 5 cocktails

ii) 10 pints of beer + 1 whole bottle of wine

iii) 10 glasses of cognac + 5 or 6 beers.

As a former drinker (though I never ever drank this much alcohol at any one time), I still struggle to understand how anyone can drink that much in one go!! They want to give up binge-drinking and are currently abstaining, choosing instead to go to the gym. They are avoiding all social occasions altogether because their friends are all heavy drinkers.

I wonder how sustainable this is, this going-to-the-gym-seven-days-a-week-and-not-socialising-at-all. This person/ my friend is doing it because they want to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't drink and who does not like them binge-drinking and has said that they cannot be together if the person carried on binge-drinking. I understand my friend's SO's stance especially bc it's a fairly new relationship and IMO it is better not to continue something and make it more permanent if these 2 people are not on the same page.

What are your thoughts?

 

[missy]

Phoenix my thoughts are that I hope they are both in counseling to deal with this and while it is helpful to redirect negative behavior into a positive one (i.e. working out and eating healthfully) it needs to be on a sustainable basis. I cannot say if they can continue living to the extreme and it does sound like their behavior is extreme one way or another. That usually is not sustainable.

Sounds like your friend is a functional alcoholic and if he has been drinking to excess like this I would be concerned about his liver and his kidneys and his way of coping in general. Hope he and your friend can get the professional help necessary to turn their lives around for the better.

 

[Phoenix]

Phoenix my thoughts are that I hope they are both in counseling to deal with this and while it is helpful to redirect negative behavior into a positive one (i.e. working out and eating healthfully) it needs to be on a sustainable basis. I cannot say if they can continue living to the extreme and it does sound like their behavior is extreme one way or another. That usually is not sustainable.

Sounds like your friend is a functional alcoholic and if he has been drinking to excess like this I would be concerned about his liver and his kidneys and his way of coping in general. Hope he and your friend can get the professional help necessary to turn their lives around for the better.

Missy, I never said my friend was a "he", lol.

I doubt if they'll want to go to counselling. It's a new-ish relationship; and besides, in this part of the world, pple really don't go to counselling. There just aren't good counsellors (?) around anyway.

I do agree that my friend's behaviour/ personality is very extreme, it's one way or the other. My friend professes to really love the SO and wants to do everything they can to keep the relationship going.

Thank you for your post, Missy.

 

[missy]

Phoenix you are very welcome.
I realize you never specified the gender but for the sake of simplicity I just used "he" instead of "he/she" and I didn't want to ask more personal questions as I realize you probably did it purposefully.

Hope your friend(s) can get the necessary help. And they are lucky you care about them.

 

[december-fire]

Phoenix,

I was shocked at the amounts you listed. That's scary. I hope your friend stops binge drinking for the sake of their health.

The fact that your friend is stopping this unhealthy drinking for external reasons worries me. What if the relationship doesn't work out? Some people would say that taking positive action (stopping the binge drinking) is great, regardless of the motivation. I agree to an extent, but I think falling back into unhealthy habits is more likely if the motivation is externally-driven.

As far as hitting the gym seven days a week and not socializing at all, that doesn't sound sustainable (or necessarily healthy, if they're not allowing their muscles to recover by carefully structuring their workouts). Some could argue that the gym might be providing lots of social contact, but if that was the case, you wouldn't be raising this concern.

Since you describe your friend's personality as extreme, an all-or-nothing type, then I guess the behaviour isn't out-of-character, but I would be worried about the motivation and sustainability of your friend's actions.

I hope your friend is working with knowledgeable staff at the gym to ensure the workout schedule and program is actually healthy and is monitored and adjusted as required.

I also hope your friend has been honest with their doctor about past and present drinking habits.

Sending out lots of good thoughts and wishes that your friend does what is healthy for them.

 

[Phoenix]

@december-fire, I agree with every word you've said.

I do not think it is sustainable at all, for all the reasons you've stated.

I am not sure what to say to my friend though. I do agree with the SO that they should not continue this relationship. Better to not get in deeper. My friend NEEDS to get help but nobody can tell a person what to do; they need to realise that for themselves. They need to take positive steps, internally-driven, to address their drinking issue, for the sake of their own health, not just for love/ or whatever this is (actually I think it's more a case of being starry-eyed/ a crush, to be honest).

Thank you for your input.

 

[december-fire]

Phoenix,

Sadly, some people don't change or seem to realize what they're doing.
Your friend's SO is wise to know what they're willing to accept in a partner.
It seems all you can do is try to nudge or encourage your friend by mentioning the wonderful benefits of working out in a healthy manner, and the importance of discussions with doctors about drinking - including the fact that there has been binge drinking in the past but that has ceased.
If the relationship does end, I hope your friend doesn't use it as an excuse to return to drinking, but will focus on being the best they can be for themselves.

 

[Phoenix]

I guess I am asking bc I feel like maybe I am not giving my friend the benefit of the doubt.

 

[december-fire]

It sounds like you're asking because you're concerned about your friend.
You know your friend's personality and want the best for them, but you also know your friend's past behaviours.
You can give the benefit of the doubt, hope for the best, try to be supportive and offer guidance, and yet not be shocked if things go off-track.

 

[valeria101]

I guess I am asking bc I feel like maybe I am not giving my friend the benefit of the doubt.

I know of one man who changed like that; of course, this is just proof of possibility & no more ...

 

[Phoenix]

I know of one man who changed like that; of course, this is just proof of possibility & no more ...

Happy to hear that, Valeria, for the person you know and also for my friend. So, there's hope.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Does she want to quit?

 

[sonnyjane]

I guess I am asking bc I feel like maybe I am not giving my friend the benefit of the doubt.

I hate to say that’s kind of how I feel. When I’m trying to lose weight I abstain from many social dinner outings because it goes against my goals. If your friend was trying to quit smoking and turned to jogging for the stress would you think that was unreasonable? I guess I wouldn’t poo-poo the strategy until they give you reason to believe it’s not working. Some former alcoholics are fine hanging out with drinkers in social settings, but many newly sober folks find the temptation too much.

 

[Bron357]

The problem with alcohol addiction is that you never “get over it”. It is usually a life long effort to stay clean and/ or sober. In a perfect world you would think “surely he / she can still socialize with alcohol and just have 2 or 3 drinks!”. Sadly, usually not possible. Total abstinence is required. Some people have compulsive, obsessive behaviors and everything tends to be to the extreme. Your friend seems to have exchanged one “excessive behavior” with another. Not healthy. Your friend would benefit from some counseling. But that is a step they have to decide to take themselves. As a friend you can only be supportive and suggestive and step back if their behavior is impacting upon you personally. If your friend doesn’t “care enough” to take steps to improve his /her life, no one, not you, not a partner, not a mother, not a father can “care enough” on their behalf to make it ok.

 

[PintoBean]

The problem with alcohol addiction is that you never “get over it”. It is usually a life long effort to stay clean and/ or sober. In a perfect world you would think “surely he / she can still socialize with alcohol and just have 2 or 3 drinks!”. Sadly, usually not possible. Total abstinence is required. Some people have compulsive, obsessive behaviors and everything tends to be to the extreme. Your friend seems to have exchanged one “excessive behavior” with another. Not healthy. Your friend would benefit from some counseling. But that is a step they have to decide to take themselves. As a friend you can only be supportive and suggestive and step back if their behavior is impacting upon you personally. If your friend doesn’t “care enough” to take steps to improve his /her life, no one, not you, not a partner, not a mother, not a father can “care enough” on their behalf to make it ok.

Truth!

As you know from our conversations, @Phoenix , the only way my husband got over it was when he died.

 

[Calliecake]

Phoenix,

Everything @december-fire and Bron357 has stated is true.

Until your friend comes to the realization that she wants to make these changes for herself, she will more than likely fail. No amount of love and support you give a person will make a difference if they don't want it for themselves.

I wish I never had to know so much about this topic.

 

[TooPatient]

Phoenix,

Your friend is going to need a lot of support as they go through this. It won't be easy. I doubt they will be able to sustain this and they will go back to binge drinking. Maybe this holiday season as they can't avoid all of the parties or maybe after their relationship has been going strong for 10 years and they have a disagreement. But it WILL happen.

The only time I have seen someone make such a drastic change successfully is when they changed the rest of their life to make it happen. They need new friends who don't go out drinking. They need people who will bring cranberry juice and sparking cider instead of just alcohol. Realistically, they won't be able to avoid being around people drinking sometimes. They need to find the strength inside of them to stick with it no matter what.
And then they will still fail. They'll have to choose between giving up and going back to binging (easy since they already slipped and did!) or picking up and going on despite the mistake (difficult as they have to be strong enough to acknowledge the mistake and not let it define them or recognize the friend/situation that made the drinking seem like an acceptable choice).

My mother is an alcoholic. She is 2 years and 9 months sober. She crashed hard after more than 10 years sober because a friend convinced her that she was strong enough to have "just one" with dinner.

My uncle died of cirrhosis. His brother died a year later of alcohol poisoning.
My cousins saw this pain first hand. They know what it is to lose a loved one (their father) at a young age due to drinking. What do they share all over FB? Drinking jokes. They have kids of their own and are making the same choices that their father did even knowing that those choices are what took him from them when they were in their 20s.


Anyway, alcohol is a powerful thing. I hope your friend is able to find the strength to make lasting changes.

 

[Phoenix]

Does she want to quit?

My friend says they enjoy drinking but the SO is so "disgusted" by the binge-drinking that the SO does not want the relationship to continue, does not want to be with an alcoholic. My friend wants to be with the SO and so is willing to quit. They also say that bc they've never had, in the past, anyone to care for them or whom they care for; but "this time it is different" bc they want to be "healthy, happy together" with the SO. I understand the SO really likes my friend too but is looking beyond the present and more towards the future and doesn't see a future with this person.

 

[Phoenix]

I hate to say that’s kind of how I feel. When I’m trying to lose weight I abstain from many social dinner outings because it goes against my goals. If your friend was trying to quit smoking and turned to jogging for the stress would you think that was unreasonable? I guess I wouldn’t poo-poo the strategy until they give you reason to believe it’s not working. Some former alcoholics are fine hanging out with drinkers in social settings, but many newly sober folks find the temptation too much.

Yes, part of me feels that I need to give my friend the benefit of the doubt.

Giving up alcohol is not easy. Granted I was never an alcoholic but I recognised there was an issue and it's taken me several years to get to where I am now. I know I've succeeded bc I no longer crave alcohol or even think about it, whereas in the past when I was trying to quit I'd think / obsess about it when I wasn't drinking. I know that my friend thinks about it and communicates it with me, saying they choose to go to the gym everyday, are avoiding their work Christmas party bc they don't want to drink and don't want to be anywhere near temptation.

Granted also I was able to socialise with drinkers when I was trying to give up and was able to say no when everyone else was imbibing. But believe me, it was not easy!

I guess I'll wait to see and be as supportive as I can be in the meantime.

 

[Phoenix]

The problem with alcohol addiction is that you never “get over it”. It is usually a life long effort to stay clean and/ or sober. In a perfect world you would think “surely he / she can still socialize with alcohol and just have 2 or 3 drinks!”. Sadly, usually not possible. Total abstinence is required. Some people have compulsive, obsessive behaviors and everything tends to be to the extreme. Your friend seems to have exchanged one “excessive behavior” with another. Not healthy. Your friend would benefit from some counseling. But that is a step they have to decide to take themselves. As a friend you can only be supportive and suggestive and step back if their behavior is impacting upon you personally. If your friend doesn’t “care enough” to take steps to improve his /her life, no one, not you, not a partner, not a mother, not a father can “care enough” on their behalf to make it ok.

I agree with you!! Nobody can change, especially with something as hard as this, unless they truly want it for themselves. It is truly a lifestyle change. They NEED to want to be healthy for themselves and make this lifestyle change themselves, again for themselves and not for anyone else.

I wonder then if alcohol addiction is similar to cigarette addiction? My husband gave up smoking for over 10 years and in the past few years has relapsed; and is now a smoker again and just cannot quit (but anyway that's another topic altogether).

 

[Phoenix]

Truth!

As you know from our conversations, @Phoenix , the only way my husband got over it was when he died.

I'm sorry, PB.

 

[Phoenix]

Phoenix,

Everything @december-fire and Bron357 has stated is true.

Until your friend comes to the realization that she wants to make these changes for herself, she will more than likely fail. No amount of love and support you give a person will make a difference if they don't want it for themselves.

I wish I never had to know so much about this topic.

I absolutely agree with you.

Sounds like you've had to deal with this at some level. I'm sorry.

I do wonder if my friend truly wants this for THEMSELVES and not just to win the love and approval of the other person.

 

[cmd2014]

Maybe your friend’s extreme approach is just a first step. Many people have to remove temptation, avoid certain people/social situations, and substitute an alternate behavior for a while to achieve sobriety before being able to gradually resume more normal activities while avoiding drinking. Some need to avoid certain people/social situations forever to do this. I’d say, be cautiously optimistic and try not to judge why your friend wants to do this, or how they need to get to where he/she wants to be. The drinking was extreme. It’s healthy to stop. However they do that is good. And if this relationship is the reason to do something about their drinking, let’s not look that gift horse in the mouth. Maybe the relationship won’t end, but if it does, support them in maintaining their sobriety no matter what. Remind them that sometimes people come into our lives and don’t stay, but the gifts they bring to our lives do (perspective on the problem and motivation to do something about it - those can last long after the relationship ends).

 

[Phoenix]

@TooPatient , I am so sorry to hear of all this. It is truly a horrible thing, alcohol, its addictive effect and the impact it has on the lives of those that choose to indulge in it as well as the lives of others around them. I do often wonder if alcohol should be banned / made illegal again, but then look at Prohibition and what happened!!

I do wonder also if my friend should just let this other person go. Why involve yet another person and then turning them possibly into another victim of alcohol (assuming my friend isn't successful at making this change, but pls see my reply to @sonnyjane above).

 

[junebug17]

Maybe it’s just what your friend needs to do right now - avoid temptation by not being around alcohol and friends who drink. Better right now to be hanging out in a gym as opposed to a bar. I agree you can’t do that forever, alcohol is very prevelant in our society and very difficult to avoid. I don’t think it’s bad for the short term and she’ll probably feel stronger the longer she stays sober. It’s her journey and she has to handle it the way she sees fit I guess.

I agree it would be better if she was stopping for herself and not for someone else. I get your concern about what will happen if this relationship doesn’t work out. But who knows, maybe it was the wake-up call she needed. At this point I think all you can do is just lend your support and hope for the best. She’s lucky to have a caring friend like you!

 

[elle_71125]

I agree with you!! Nobody can change, especially with something as hard as this, unless they truly want it for themselves. It is truly a lifestyle change. They NEED to want to be healthy for themselves and make this lifestyle change themselves, again for themselves and not for anyone else.

I wonder then if alcohol addiction is similar to cigarette addiction? My husband gave up smoking for over 10 years and in the past few years has relapsed; and is now a smoker again and just cannot quit (but anyway that's another topic altogether).

I wish I had good advice for your friend. I truly wish them the best. I don't want to sound harsh but I don't see how that relationship can be sustained, based on their differences. It's very hard to be with someone that can't control their drinking. It turns you into a different person and that's usually someone that an SO won't like.

I do believe there is a relationship between differing types of addiction. My DH has an addictive personality, which lends itself to substance abuse. He's had a drinking problem and he has a smoking problem (falls off that wagon every couple years or so). Unfortunately, I come from a family of substance abuse and I am very sensitive to those things. Actually, I can't stand them. I'd love it if I had to power to change his perspective so he could see addiction the way I do. The problem is, you can't make someone do something they don't really want to do. All you can do is be supportive and understanding (admittedly something I can struggle with). I hope your friend (and anyone else struggling with addiction or a loved ones addiction) finds a way to overcome their struggle. It's a life long battle.