An S-T color is not the same as fancy colored, correct?

[RRfromR]

Tia!

 

[junebug17]

@RRfromR, that's correct - this is from the GIA website

" Any diamond beyond the Z color grade is a fancy color diamond and is evaluated on a different color scale."

 

[Rockdiamond]

I guess I'd ask....what is the importance of this title?
The diamond has a price- calling it "fancy" should not make it more costly.
If you own it, and it looks yellow, and you want to call it a "Fancy Colored Diamond", you've got our permission

 

[RRfromR]

@Rockdiamond , the seller was calling it yellow but the certificate was listing S-T, so I was not sure. I'm so far away from being a purist, I'm visiting from the antique forum, everything that I have is wonky lol.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Got it....is the grade from a GIA report?
Just curious....
IS the stone an antique?

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

No, it isn't fancy designation.
They shouldn't be putting that 'premium tag' unless they have documentation proving it.

 

[RRfromR]

Got it....is the grade from a GIA report?
Just curious....
IS the stone an antique?

@Rockdiamond , yep, it's an old mine cut and the certification is from an UK lab, not GIA.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Ah...
IS it a large diamond?
In general- the grades of O-P, Q-R, S-T are far more difficult to grade- even for GIA these colors behave schizophrenically at times. Sometimes they look yellow sometimes not.
And even then, it varies from stone to stone...

 

[RRfromR]

@Rockdiamond , I wish lol. I'm in the lower budget category. This is it I'm assuming in different lights

 

[Niel]

I guess I'd ask....what is the importance of this title?
The diamond has a price- calling it "fancy" should not make it more costly.
If you own it, and it looks yellow, and you want to call it a "Fancy Colored Diamond", you've got our permission

I’m going to tell people that you let me call my diamond fancy colored. Send them straight to you.

 

[Niel]

@Rockdiamond , I wish lol. I'm in the lower budget category. This is it I'm assuming in different lights

Rock diamond can comment but if THAT color was s-t more people would buy them. I’m a little suspect that they photoshopped the color.

 

[Mreader]

I’m going to tell people that you let me call my diamond fancy colored. Send them straight to you.

I feel like your stone, based on the few pics I’ve seen, could be designated fancy but that actually does make me question - what separates a fancy from Y-Z for example? Is it according to the GIA reviewer eyeballs - or is there some other element that pushes it into “fancy”? I tried googling this (after seeing Niels stone lol) and couldn’t really get an answer. @Rockdiamond

 

[Mreader]

Rock diamond can comment but if THAT color was s-t more people would buy them. I’m a little suspect that they photoshopped the color.

The top pic color looks really different from the bottom.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

That picture they totally photoshopped to make it look like a vivid yellow, even the bottom picture looks tuned up.

 

[kenny]

I guess I'd ask....what is the importance of this title?
The diamond has a price- calling it "fancy" should not make it more costly.
If you own it, and it looks yellow, and you want to call it a "Fancy Colored Diamond", you've got our permission

I understand your argument.
But you conveniently left something out.
Something worth trillions of dollars in the marketplace.
Brand.
Does brand matter when the item can be argued to be the same?
To some folks yes, and to other folks no.
Hence stores sell both generic and brand name products.
To brands like Chanel, Tiffany & Co., Steinway, and Cadillac the brand itself matters as much, and sometimes more than, qualities of the actual product.
Such is the world we live in ... Image over Substance.

Inside the Delirious Rise of ‘Superfake’ Handbags

Can you tell the difference between a $10,000 Chanel bag and a $200 knockoff? Almost nobody can, and it’s turning luxury fashion upside down.

www.nytimes.com

Here's a SNIP from above article:

I've read the counterfeit Chanel and Hermes bags are getting so good that a woman made tons of money buying real ones from a 5th Ave store, IIRC Neiman Markup, opps I mean Markus.
Then she returned it for a refund, which she got.
Only after getting away with the several times did the store get wise.

Another woman arrested for returning fake handbags

I literally cannot believe another woman has been arrested for the same scam of purchasing luxury bags as places like TJMaxx and returning counterfeits. Clearly something needs to be done about the massive amount of return fraud that is happening with e-commerce.

closetfullofcash.com

Based on your argument, Rockdiamond, she did nothing wrong, ethically.

Because while it can be argued the fake and real bags were virtually identical many customers are happy to pay what a real one costs EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE VIRTUALLY THE SAME.

Being the real deal matters to some people, enough people to justifiy whatever the market will bear.

GIA and the market have established that people WILL pay more for a GIA Fancy Yellow than from a GIA S-T, EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE VIRTUALLY THE SAME.

If you lined up 100 rich customers who can and do buy real Hermes and Chanel bags, and presented them with all the facts and the choice of a real or fake some would still by the real deal.
People vary, so let's not insult those.

To address your statements, in bold ...

"I guess I'd ask....what is the importance of this title?"
Since people vary the 'tittle' (aka brand) will have no importance to some and great importance to others.



The diamond has a price- calling it "fancy" should not make it more costly.
Tell that to the owner of Hermes/Chanel, and to the women who simply must have those real bags.



If you own it, and it looks yellow, and you want to call it a "Fancy Colored Diamond", you've got our permission



that would be legal for the customer to lie about, but it would be illegal for you, a diamond vendor to sell a GIA S-T that you represent as a Fancy Colored Diamond.

Disclaminer: I've bought several

 

[Rockdiamond]

Interesting analogy. Comparing handbags to jewelry.
I think a more valid one would be if we compared faux Louie Vuitton to lab diamonds versus mined.
In the case of GIA grading, and how it affects either the consumer, or the vendor, it doesn’t seem to be a fitting analogy.
I suppose we could draw a comparison if there was a seller who sold “Fancy Colored Diamonds” for one price and non FCDs for less. Using that aspect as a price barometer. I’ve haven’t heard of that being done for a long time- although it might still go on locally.

Back in the pre-historic days of 1999, when I first started selling diamonds online ( we were one of the first diamond companies to do so) I specifically created charts showing the progression of yellow through the lower end of the GIA spectrum. Back then it was common for wholesale sellers to submit rings set with UVWXYZ diamonds to EGL who would grade them. “Fancy Yellow” or canary… whatever. Those rings were sold as “Fancy Colored”

We always offered Y-Z ( for example) for what it was and generally the price of a Y-Z is lower than a Fancy Light Yellow. But not always……In the real world, an Old Mine Brilliant graded Y-Z can easily sell for more than a similar sized Radiant or Cushion graded FLY.


The pics below….. sheeesh!!! Totally misleading based on what I see.

@Rockdiamond , I wish lol. I'm in the lower budget category. This is it I'm assuming in different lights

 

[RRfromR]

Sometimes sellers are also inexperienced. I ordered a tiny diamond and the seller warned me that the color is not great. This is what I got vs what I ordered, based on her pictures. I'm thinking of sending it to GIA for review. This is a cell phone picture, room light, no filters. .

 

[Rockdiamond]

Yes- especially consumers selling things.
Taking accurate pictures of diamonds is very difficult- much more so for FCDs.
There’ve been so many cases of people sitting in our office considering a diamond or ring. “Do you mind if I take a picture?”….common question. I never have any objection. But the chances of them getting a representative pic with a cellphone are tiny.

Having said that- please don’t offense but the pic on the left makes the yellow stone look like a treated diamond. But I can’t tell $hit from that pic- no fault of yours!!

 

[RRfromR]

@Rockdiamond , I'm not offended, it was $150 for the ring and it's 18k, so that's why I don't think it's a priority now to send it for testing.

 

[Rockdiamond]

What a deal?!!!!!???!!!

 

[tyty333]

I guess I'd ask....what is the importance of this title?
The diamond has a price- calling it "fancy" should not make it more costly.
If you own it, and it looks yellow, and you want to call it a "Fancy Colored Diamond", you've got our permission

I must be a purist because I dont agree...

The diamond has a price- calling it "fancy" should not make it more costly.
I think all things being the same, a stone that gets a Fancy designation vs a stone that is designated Y-Z, the Fancy would be
more expensive. (I know, when things are different a beautiful old cut can be more expensive but we're just talking color here and not other specs). If you're just referring to someone using the term loosely, I think that's a slippery slope.

If you own it, and it looks yellow, and you want to call it a "Fancy Colored Diamond", you've got our permission
Dont include me in the "our". IMO, dont call it Fancy if it doesn't say fancy on the GIA report.

I have an ACA K colored stone...but I want to call it a G because I dont see the tint. Does that make it ok? I think not!

We had a relatively new person try to sell a "Fancy pink diamond ring" in our pre-loved forum. She was quickly corrected
(not by me but by another member) because the stone was not designated as "Fancy".

And I do think PSers consist of more purists vs the general population only because we know what all these different designators mean
and find them to be pretty important!

 

[Rfisher]

Wanted to say this exact thing, @tyty333

If not the same, it was a pinkish brown and title stated pink or fancy pink.
It matters.

Also now, relevant to reading a post on this thread, having different curious feelings about a certain EGL ‘fancy yellow’ diamond ring bought in the early 00’s ……….

 

[Karl_K]

My 2c on color naming.
A seller can call a diamond a yellow diamond, but if they call it a fancy yellow diamond my fist response will be kewl where is the GIA report?
Any answer but here look is grounds for immediately moving on, money safely still in my bank account.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Great discussion!
I think certain aspects are being conflated here.
If someone- anyone - wants to accurately describe a diamond which has been graded by GIA, the exact GIA color grade is the only way to do that.
But consumers don’t have the same obligations as ethical sellers. If Jane Doe bought a Y-Z that looks quite yellow and she shows it off as her ”New yellow diamon ring“ …..personally I have no objection. If her friends ask what GIA graded the stone, sure, honestly is always the best policy.
Honest representation by companies selling diamonds leaves little room for interpretation, in my opinion.
That would be the GIA grade. Full stop.

There are still grey areas though. “Fancy colored diamond” is not technically a gemological term. Other than the way GIA labels the report, its not specific enough to have the implications being presented here.
If a diamond’s tint happens to be blue or pink, and equivalent to K color in terms of intensity, it becomes a “Fancy Colored Diamond” if we’re basing that title on the GIA report title. But in many cases the tint is very hard to see.
So, from my perspective the GIA grade means everything. The term “Fancy“ - although it may be used in malicious ways….less of an issue. For me.
For example- in organizing our site, a ring that looks yellow goes with “Yellow diamond rings” as a general category. Within that category there’s a color grade selector ranging from U-V, up through Fancy Vivid Yellow. We were the very first internet site to distinguish these colors. Even to this day it’s rare to find selectors that go to the split color grades.
Generally speaking, a Y-Z is a yellow diamond, if we’re using the word yellow literally

 

[YadaYadaYada]

There is a certain amount of prestige with a diamond having a fancy designation. IMO if an alphabet diamond could also be called “fancy“ then what would the point of even having a fancy grading option be?

Great if someone finds say a W-X diamond that they feel gives them they same look as a fancy yellow, but it should not be called fancy unless it has a GIA report to back it up.

 

[Niel]

This is getting into a more theoretical discussion. I’d like to just focus on the OP’s diamond for a minute. If a reputable lab certified the diamond in question as a mid range diamond, that photo is a huge red flag. An old cut with that level of saturation would be graded fancy SOMETHING at the least- and the first picture seems more in line with examples I’ve seen of “fancy intense” if you look at examples of GIA graded alphabet OECs on this website- they do not have that level of saturation.

If this is sold by a business AND they are claiming it is accompanied by a lab report- I am very suspicious

 

[Niel]

Here is an oec that is photographing even less yellow than the stone you’re considering (yes they will photograph)
It’s designated FIY by GIA

https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/_hancocks-gold-and-platinum-1.24ct-fancy-intense-yellow-diamond-cluster-ring

 

[Rockdiamond]

She paid $150…. So really nothing to talk about. I don’t think it’s worth taking the ring apart to submit to GIA.

a reputable lab certified the diamond

Besides GIA I don’t think there’s any alternative if we are talking about industry/ educated consumer acceptance in fancy colored diamond grading. I don’t advise accepting any other lab for FCDs ( we probably agree)

 

[Mreader]

She paid $150…. So really nothing to talk about. I don’t think it’s worth taking the ring apart to submit to GIA.


Besides GIA I don’t think there’s any alternative if we are talking about industry/ educated consumer acceptance in fancy colored diamond grading. I don’t advise accepting any other lab for FCDs ( we probably agree)

I don’t think Neil is referring to the $150 sapphire and diamond moi toi one; she’s referring to the very first picture and the stone that OP is referencing in the thread.

 

[Niel]

She paid $150…. So really nothing to talk about. I don’t think it’s worth taking the ring apart to submit to GIA.


Besides GIA I don’t think there’s any alternative if we are talking about industry/ educated consumer acceptance in fancy colored diamond grading. I don’t advise accepting any other lab for FCDs ( we probably agree)

The op is considering this diamond and said this…..

the seller was calling it yellow but the certificate was listing S-T, so I was not sure.

and
yep, it's an old mine cut and the certification is from an UK lab, not GIA.



So not the second ring she’s referring to, as that’s clearly not got the same cut