Advice: Vintage Rip-off?

[Annie123]

I purchased a vintage diamond engagement ring from a reputable antique jeweler about two years ago. At the time I was very nervous about the purchase because the diamond was not certified due to it''s age. The ring was appraised by the on staff gemologist(I know how bad this is now) and in the end I felt happy with the purchase.

While searching for a wedding band quite a few jewelers looked at my ring and commented on the fact that is was a reproduction. The first time this happened I didn''t think much of it, but when it continued to occur, I became worried. Part of the reason the ring held so much value for me was that I believed it was one of a kind and enjoyed knowing it had a history. Not long after I had the ring appraised again, by two other gemologist and both came back with the same results. The ring was a reproduction and no more than ten years old. The value they gave was almost half of what we paid.

Two years have past since the ring was purchased and I''m not sure what to do. While the ring has sentimental value, I get so angry thinking about how we got ripped off. The original jeweler sold it to us as a vintage piece and said this increased the value.

Any suggestions? Or advice? Do I confront the jeweler? Or just forget about it?

 

[Kaleigh]

Oh Annie, I am sorry to hear this. You do love the ring, but obviously are very mad to be mislead like that. I don't know, but part of me says to talk to the jeweler who sold you this ring and let him know about it. AND part of me thinks, since you love it, leave it alone. Tough call since it's been what 2 years since you got it??? The other's will chime in on this I'm sure. Good luck and welcome to PS. Just wish it was under better circumstances.

 

[MissAva]

Wow. That is complicated situation. I would say that since it has been two years the jewler will proably tell you to suck it up. I also think that lying about the age fo the ring is terrible and underlies the point of getting jewelry appriased when it is purchased. I am sorry this has happened to you but I doubt their is anything you can do. Perhaps RockDoc will be able to shead some light on the situation.

 

[widget]

Oh, Annie....I''m so sorry you''re in this situation!

I suppose the best advice would be to try to continue to love it....I''m sure it''s beautiful...even though it isn''t exactly what you thought it was.

Having said that, I''ll tell what I would do. I''d confront the jeweler. I''d probably tell him/her that I''m active on a public jewelry forum where a lot of vintage collectors would like to learn this jeweler''s name for future reference. (This is true!

)

It would be really helpful if you''ve saved the original sale receipt and/or the "appraisal" that went with it. Did they put in writing what the estimated age of the piece was? Where this could get sticky is that if the ring is ten years old, then it is in fact an "estate" piece....but NOT necessarily vintage. Some dealers (disreputable ones, anyway) get a little fuzzy on the difference...and there IS indeed a difference between "estate jewelry" and "vintage jewelry".

It is unlikely, I guess, that you''ll be able to get satisfaction from these people since you bought it two years ago. Even less likely if you no longer have any paperwork that went with the purchase. But I''d confront them anyway....for my own satisfaction.

Again, I''m so sorry that you''re in this position. I''m sure your ring is just beautiful...but I completely understand your unhappiness and anger that it has proved to be other than what it was described to be when you purchased it.

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[windowshopper]

please tell us who it is--maybe someone else has dealt with them

 

[EZ]

Note: I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

A lawyer is going to cost you money but depending on the amount involved here it might be a good idea to consult one. If for nothing else the attorney might give you advice on how to confront the person who sold you the ring without giving up any of your rights. I do not know about other states but here in Tejas the statute of limitations on fraud is 4 years. If you have the original appraisal and anything else in writing that signifies this is an antique you may have grounds for a suit. Note that the statue here for professional malpractice is only two years. There is an exception called the discovery rule that sometimes permits a suit to be filed within a period of time after discovery of a wrong. However this time can be short. Your state laws may vary. If the parties you purchased from cannot correct the situation to your satisfaction the courts may provide some relief. You would have to consult an attorney familiar with the

edit: laws in your state.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

If you paid a premium for vintage value, and the jeweler stated on his invoice or appraisal that the item was circa some period, then you deserve to be made whole for your loss.

I would confront the jeweler big time. If you like the ring, tell him you will accept a discount, either in the form of a cash refund or possibly a store credit. Otherwise tell him you want a full cash refund.

 

[Giangi]

I''m really sorry to hear about your situation.

The suggestions Richard gave you are dead on. Just walk into the store on a saturday afternoon

and let them know how disappointed you are.. There''s absolutely nothing wrong with a replica ring.. as long as you know from the beginning it''s not the ''''real deal''''''.

 

[EZ]

Date: 9/1/2005 10:14:15 PM
Author: Giangi
I'm really sorry to hear about your situation.

The suggestions Richard gave you are dead on. Just walk into the store on a saturday afternoon

and let them know how disappointed you are.. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a replica ring.. as long as you know from the beginning it's not the 'real deal'.

Just do not accept anything that you feel is unjust or not exactly what you need to make yourself whole. As soon as you do this may give up legal standing. When you go into the store be polite but remain strong. If this truly is a case of fraud then you have Right (and the law) on your side. Don't give any of that up.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

If this truly is a case of fraud...

From my experience, these situations are usually the result of ignorance rather than fraud.

It takes considerable experience & knowledge to spot quality reproductions. Many jewelers do not have this level of expertise. Some will seek an expert opinion, while others will not go through the trouble and expense, instead just "winging it" with their own conclusions.

It''s probably just a mistake on the jeweler''s part, and you should give him a chance to rectify it. Be friendly but firm.

 

[mepearl53]

Why don''t you take it back to the store where you purchased it and ask them to do a appraisal for you. This should not be a big thing since you purchased it from them. Ask them also to put the correct circa date on it for your insurance company needs it to properly schedule it. If it is incorrect from what you purchased I think they would want to avoid the public knowledge of misrepresentation and I believe you have legal grounds for action.

 

[Annie123]

Thank you all for your help and advice. My husband(who is an attorney) is going to call the owner of the store to discuss the ring or we may go by on Saturday.

After hearing your comments, I looked at the receipt and original appraisal(from the store) again and noticed the carefully worded description "edwardian style." No where on the appraisal does it give an age. The appraisal was done by an on sight gemologist when we bought it and of course appraised for much more than we paid. When I had the second appraisal done it came out much much less than for what we purchased the ring.

I guess my husband and I were very ignorant when we purchased the ring, although I do still feel we were misrepresented. While there was nothing in writing stating the age of the piece, the owner gave us quite the sales pitch. She said how this ring was so much more valuable than a reproduction and I could never find the same quality somewhere else. We plan on confronting her and see what happens. I think we have a few things to bargain with; I have some contacts in the media and there are dozens of websites looking for advice. We shall see.

Thanks again!!

 

[Kaleigh]

That's great your hubby is an attorney Annie, that will definitely help. If I were you I would go there tomorrow unannounced and b*tch like crazy. Good luck!!! Please let us know what the guy says.

 

[widget]

I think it''s great news that your husband is an attorney. That alone should get their attention.

Unfortunately, "Edwardian Style" is code for: "Reproduction".

With the sales pitch they gave you, you should get a full refund if you decide you want to return it, or at least some money back if you decide to keep it.

Good luck.

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[EZ]

From my experience, these situations are usually the result of ignorance rather than fraud.

Thanks for the voice of reason Rich. I tend to go off when I hear about real cases of fraud. (It has happened to me.) On the other hand, there is still the concept of caveat emptor and it holds a lot of merit.

Unfortunately, this sounds less like fraud now that a fact or two is presented. The appraisal does not mention the rings status in regard to age except for the term 'style'. I agree that this is a code/weasel word and gives the appraiser wide latitude. An appraisal of 2X selling price seems to be common in this trade and would probably be seen as 'customary'. Granted, there are different types of appraisals and an independent appraiser would most likely give a better indication of true market value.

The sales pitch sounds like what is known as "puffery" and, within reason, it is perfectly legal. I have been burned by this too and have tried to learn (caveat emptor) from it. Unless there is proof that the pitch could be proven to be blatantly fraudulent there does not seem to be much recourse here. Without a video tape, memories aren't going to be given much weight after two years.

I would still recommend going in and talking with them. They do have community goodwill that they need to keep in order to stay in business for any length of time.

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

I think that the least you should do is let them know what you think and let it ride.

How can you pick a reproduction that is not new - carbon dating??? Anybody can tell you anything. Perhaps there are some obvious tell tale signs? Is it well made? I believe you love your jewel and that you might have paid too much for the years that never happened. Moreover, I expect they priced it too high on the understanding it was older then it is. They may well just be expensive though.

I buy antiques because they are made better. The age is irrelevant but I suppose I like the affect of age as well - not jewellery, furniture.

Take it as a learning experience. You will pay a lot more for antique jewellery that is outstanding because jewellery made a long time ago didn''t have the same high standard as today and good exaples are rare - they can''t really be re-produced cheaply, only the best can do it as the best from the past had an advantage on tooling etc. That is at the high end, most of what is made today will be exposed for what it is, and some may shine on.

I wish I could say that high end jewellery is an investment and airloom material, but most appraisers would argue against that. If it were even slightly possible a lot of jewellers would produce pieces that fit the criteria. In the end, it may be so!

I have seen one of the best pieces ever made in the history of jewellery taken to a jeweller to be rebuilt, as to create a modern look etc, where the jeweller was in shock as he has tried, but never made something so good. I sent him to a guy who works in the same style and perhaps his ancestor made it - that rare. Both of them refused to touch it, but I''ll warrant somebody somewhere since has...

Phillip

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Date: 9/2/2005 5:33:17 PM
Author: Annie123

''edwardian style.''

No where on the appraisal does it give an age. The appraisal was done by an on sight gemologist when we bought it and of course appraised for much more than we paid.

"Edwardian style" is what a "captive" appraiser who works for a store and wants to keep his job uses when describing a ring which he full well knows is a reproduction but the salesperson has "over embellished" with "puffery" when selling the piece.

Sometimes they''re "in on it", while often they''re just treading a fine line so they can keep buying groceries for the family.

It takes a lot of courage for an "in store" appraiser to possibly kill a sale by telling the truth about a piece if it runs contrary to the "story" sold with it. The pressure on them is enormous. Some bosses are reasonable and will admire an appraiser who refuses to compromise his integrity, while others will just fire the "non-team player".

That''s why an independent appraiser with no vested interest in the sale is the smart way to go with a substantial purchase.