Advice Needed

[xkittin]

Hi guys, I've been reading over the forum a little bit and decided to join. You can call me Kit/Kittin, whichever you prefer. I normally would not consider myself a LIW, but in light of many engagements of those in my life, I have begun to think that I'd rather like being engaged. This is not the first time I have thought of that, of course, but it is the first time I've felt slightly saddened or even "left out."

Let me begin with an introduction of myself/my predicament. I am a 21 year old elementary education major who anticipates graduating in Spring 2014. My boyfriend and I have been dating a little over five years (he was 15, and I was 16 when we started). I live away from my parents and in an apartment, so I am kind of used to "being on my own." We had our rough patches at the beginning of it all, but I mostly chalk that up to being immature regarding relationships and life in general. It was never anything like cheating, but we had to get used to each other's expectations, gender difference, etc. Nowadays, everything is great. We've managed to mature together as a couple and as separate people, and I am grateful for basically growing up with my SO. I have no impression that my SO is not ready for further commitment in our lives, and he has never stricken me as the type to feel tied down too early, like many men might at a younger age.

Lately, I've been receiving comments from people like "I'd never date someone five years without a ring" and "I can't believe you're not even engaged. What's the wait?" With college graduation impending, I cannot help but feel like I would not mind being married shortly after it all. This comes to the situation we have:

My boyfriend anticipates graduating from our current school at the same time as me. He, however, will be pursuing medical school three hours away the upcoming semester. Part of me wishes to be married to move with him to a completely different city, away from my family and friends. I see him as the person I will be with the rest of my life.

I do not want to wait until we have been dating over ten years to get married, which is why I think marriage before he starts medical school may be a good idea (instead of doing it during school). In my mind, what's the use in waiting a few more years if we're already "ready?" Yes, we still have some growing to do as we are young, but time has thus far shown me that we grow closer together instead of apart.

Am I being naive? I'd really appreciate advice from all of you, and, while criticism makes anyone a little upset, I do not mind it as long as it is gently put!

 

[Chewbacca]

Hi Kittin!

Time to have this talk with your SO, I think! How does he feels about all of this?

As far as the 'I'd never date someone for five years' comments - such an asinine thing to say. Especially to someone in their early twenties.

My SO's brother was married at 20, at the end of his second year in med school. They were thinking along the lines you are, not wanting to wait for his graduation. Financially they are in TERRIBLE shape, they aren't making ends meet, so make sure you have lots of wiggle room in that area! I see moving in with parents in their future. I definitely raised an eyebrow at their age, but in the end who am I to judge?

 

[MBKRH]

Hi Kit! I echo what Chewy said- you need to talk to your SO. Communication is very important in any relationship, especially when you're considering the "next big step", aka engagement and marriage.

The twenties are a crazy/stressful/fun/confusing time. You both still have a lot of growing to do; a lot to learn about yourselves, and what you really want out of life. Many people may think they have things figured out, only to do a complete 180 later and go down a completely different path. (I just turned 30, and while I miss my twenties, for the most part, I am actually glad to be out of them!)

Speaking from experience, guys need to "sow their wild oats" before they are finally ready to settle down.
They need to get the partying phase out of their system, for one. There is nothing more frustrating than having your SO go out multiple times a week to the bar with his buddies, and return home hours after they promised. School is another issue, especially if he is going to pursue an advanced degree. He is going to be beyond stressed and busy. Your "together time" will be compromised greatly, especially if the school is three or so hours away.

I am not trying to knock your age, by any means. Everybody is different, every relationship is different. You BOTH may be ready, and once you talk to him and that's the case, then you can decide how to proceed.

Chewy made another good point in respect to finances.
E-rings can be very expensive, and weddings are expensive. With him pursuing medical school, I don't need to tell you THAT will be very expensive. Do you have anything saved (does he?) for a future together? Unless you are okay with a simplistic, small wedding (or even a court-house wedding) and fairly basic e-ring, I'm sure if he's thought about the next step, he has certainly thought about the costs. Which, again- you need to talk to him.

My younger sister married at 17, and she and my BIL had to live with us for a few years while she was in beauty school and he was obtaining his Associates degree (and delivering pizzas for money). Now, they own a home and will be married ten years in February. They certainly beat the odds of marrying young and staying together, but their marriage wasn't all sunshine, lollipops and rainbows. Money and school were the biggest contributors to their fights.

I'm sorry, I ended up all over the place with my post. Talk to him- period! Good luck!

 

[madelise]

Those comments you're receiving are rude and out of place. You need to ignore them the best you can, but if anyone shoves the same line down your throat a repeated time, you need to set them in place. What did they expect? You guys were kids when you started dating, and are still very very young! Did they want him to propose at your 1 year anniversary, while you were still babes?

You guys are still young. If you have not talked the future talk yet, to get a rough feel for a timeline, have that conversation. Just ask him "so, what are your plans for the future? The next year/ next 5 years/ next 10 years?" And if he only focuses on his career conversation (which is good to hear, too), ask him where you stand in that. That is all. There's no need to shove him into a forced "LIW" stage, just as I feel the people around you shouldn't be forcing you into LIW-itis.


I have many friends who have been with each other around and over 10 years because they had been dating since middle and high school. It's not the 1800's anymore. And seriously, why the heck are they making the comments to you? As if they purposely want you miserable? What on earth are you supposed to do with it, take their comments and all of a sudden force your SO to propose? Ugh, people suck and their comments suck. Try to stay away from those people.


and the best comeback for backwards people? I have said a few too many times, "I'm waiting until my frontal lobe is fully developed before making life altering choices in life." and if someone asks what a frontal lobe is, or looks confused, I know they're not smart enough to really put me down anyway.That buys you a comeback until 25.

We have more than a few doctors, med school students and partners of them here on the boards, and they will all tell you that medical school is DRAINING, energy sucking, time consuming, and takes every penny from you. If that's true, I really don't feel marrying right before would be a smart move for either one of you, just because others in your life are making rude comments. Don't ever marry or rush to marry for reasons other than YOU TWO are ready.


Oh, and why do you have to be married to move away with him to medical school? Why don't you just go away? The comments you are receiving makes me guesstimate you're from a smaller town? Get out and go with him. It'll be nice and refreshing for you to meet new friends and new people and you get to be near your SO!

 

[xkittin]

I apologize ahead of time for not knowing how to properly quote on this website; I am unsure if you can formally quote more than one person. I also appreciate the nonjudgemental and helpful responses. I've read around on this thread a good bit and thought it a safe place to post.


"Time to have this talk with your SO, I think! How does he feels about all of this?"

"If you have not talked the future talk yet, to get a rough feel for a timeline, have that conversation. Just ask him "so, what are your plans for the future? The next year/ next 5 years/ next 10 years?" And if he only focuses on his career conversation (which is good to hear, too), ask him where you stand in that."

We have discussed our future together numerous times, and he's the first to say he does see marriage in our future. He does not place marriage as high on the priority list as I do because of our different ways of upbringing and viewpoints. I'd prefer to be married to make a big move and live with someone (not just sleepovers), and he doesn't see that as completely necessary at first. He understands how I feel, and I am under the impression he ultimately wants what I want.
His career is important to him, but he wants me with him along the way.


"E-rings can be very expensive, and weddings are expensive. With him pursuing medical school, I don't need to tell you THAT will be very expensive. Do you have anything saved (does he?) for a future together?"

I am working on savings currently. While it's not much in this big world, I am working to have at least 10k saved by the time I graduate. I'm currently sitting right around 7k, and my estimate may increase depending on what kind of summer job I can snag. As for him, I'm not 100% on his savings because he pays more of his way than I do, but he has a decent chunk as of right now (~5k?).
We do not intend on having a big wedding by any means, but my parents have always voiced that they want me to have a big (aka "nice") wedding. They pretty much intend to foot most of the bill, but I really do not ask this of them.

I know medical school will be expensive, which is the most challenging thing about it all. We haven't crunched the numbers yet, but it's getting time to get a realistic estimate about what he (we) is getting into! Hopefully there are scholarships available to him and a decent amount of grants/financial aid to minimize the amount of debt. I hope to be employed for the duration of this time, and, while teachers do not earn a killing, it will help keep us afloat.

"As if they purposely want you miserable? What on earth are you supposed to do with it, take their comments and all of a sudden force your SO to propose? Ugh, people suck and their comments suck. Try to stay away from those people."

I whole-heartedly agree. It's hard to avoid these people because they are my coworkers, friends, and sometimes family (grandma most recently). I tend to smile and say, "Well, it's not up to me, is it? I'm happy where I am."

 

[xkittin]

"We have more than a few doctors, med school students and partners of them here on the boards, and they will all tell you that medical school is DRAINING, energy sucking, time consuming, and takes every penny from you. If that's true, I really don't feel marrying right before would be a smart move for either one of you, just because others in your life are making rude comments. Don't ever marry or rush to marry for reasons other than YOU TWO are ready.


Oh, and why do you have to be married to move away with him to medical school? Why don't you just go away? The comments you are receiving makes me guesstimate you're from a smaller town? Get out and go with him. It'll be nice and refreshing for you to meet new friends and new people and you get to be near your SO!"

This is great advice! I do dread medical school for him. He will be worked to the bone, I'm sure, because he intends to find work somewhere to help pay. I want to be there for him as best I can to help relieve some of his stress - I do not want him to worry about meals, housework, etc. as I would be more than happy to do these things to allow him the proper time to study and focus on schoolwork.

Just to be specific, he is wanting to be an optometrist or ophthalmologist; his decision is still pending at this point.

I feel the need to be married for two reasons: 1. It is ideal to me. I'm ready now, why wait? He's looking at another 4-8 years of school after undergrad, and I'm looking at none until I get a stable teaching job, with tenure, to pursue my master's.
2. My parents are very traditional. They once mentioned they would disown me if I lived with him out of wedlock. We had a lot of issues four years back...I don't know if that statement holds true today, but it scares me. Ultimately, I will choose what *I* want, but I'm not interested in straining my relationship with my parents because I love them and want them to be in my life and to be supportive of my decisions.

I am from a smaller town and come from a family of strict Christian values. My mom fears "losing" me to my SO. I assure her that if I am to move, my heart is always in our hometown, and we intend to come back after his schooling. I'd stay in town in a heartbeat, but it isn't where my SO belongs yet, and I belong with him, so I must go when the time comes.

 

[LaraOnline]

Perhaps you could consider getting engaged before leaving to be together away?
But not yet set the date...

This should or could offer you the sense of family and 'right living' that you need, without putting you in a pressured situation.

I know where you are coming from. Even though you are in fact 'very young', it can be disorienting and uncomfortable to live together in an open-ended way without a sense of direction.

(disclaimer *this statement is made from my personal experience related to personal values, personal hopes and amibitions, cultural expectations etc, not speaking for every man woman and chicken on the planet here*).

 

[madelise]

"We have more than a few doctors, med school students and partners of them here on the boards, and they will all tell you that medical school is DRAINING, energy sucking, time consuming, and takes every penny from you. If that's true, I really don't feel marrying right before would be a smart move for either one of you, just because others in your life are making rude comments. Don't ever marry or rush to marry for reasons other than YOU TWO are ready.


Oh, and why do you have to be married to move away with him to medical school? Why don't you just go away? The comments you are receiving makes me guesstimate you're from a smaller town? Get out and go with him. It'll be nice and refreshing for you to meet new friends and new people and you get to be near your SO!"

This is great advice! I do dread medical school for him. He will be worked to the bone, I'm sure, because he intends to find work somewhere to help pay. I want to be there for him as best I can to help relieve some of his stress - I do not want him to worry about meals, housework, etc. as I would be more than happy to do these things to allow him the proper time to study and focus on schoolwork.

Just to be specific, he is wanting to be an optometrist or ophthalmologist; his decision is still pending at this point.

I feel the need to be married for two reasons: 1. It is ideal to me. I'm ready now, why wait? He's looking at another 4-8 years of school after undergrad, and I'm looking at none until I get a stable teaching job, with tenure, to pursue my master's.
2. My parents are very traditional. They once mentioned they would disown me if I lived with him out of wedlock. We had a lot of issues four years back...I don't know if that statement holds true today, but it scares me. Ultimately, I will choose what *I* want, but I'm not interested in straining my relationship with my parents because I love them and want them to be in my life and to be supportive of my decisions.

I am from a smaller town and come from a family of strict Christian values. My mom fears "losing" me to my SO. I assure her that if I am to move, my heart is always in our hometown, and we intend to come back after his schooling. I'd stay in town in a heartbeat, but it isn't where my SO belongs yet, and I belong with him, so I must go when the time comes.

To quote, click the middle button that says "quote" in between "post reply" and "report concern" on each person's post.

#1 bolded part: I'm sorry if I'm wrong, but isn't optometry school not med school? If I remember correctly, you're stating two options that will have very different outcomes. Optometry school will not be nearly as long or as draining (and this isn't saying anything as an insult to opt) as medical school for opht. And they're completely different fields. If he's already one year away from finishing his undergrad, you should probably get him to figure out what he's preparing himself to apply for. It's a huge difference not just for his studies, but for you to know about your imminent future plans.

#2 + 3 bolded part: Remember that marriage is for the BOTH of you, and not just you yourself. It's one thing that I struggle to acknowledge on a daily basis, since I am a very upset LIW that thinks her SO is "after" her for making her wait! But just because you're ready, doesn't mean he is. Just because your parents are basically forcing it, doesn't mean it should happen for him, or for you. I know you posted in another post that he will ultimately do whatever it is that will make you happy, but if he's willing to do that big of a sacrifice, you should return the favor to allow him his time to propose when he feels ready to marry you, not just because your parents are throwing threats. A marriage is TWO people, so don't forget he should be the other half.. but also, don't forget it shouldn't include rushing or urging or threatening from others. If you allow your mother or parents to threaten and alter your relationship now, when will it stop? They'll always try to butt into your marriage, but you need to be an adult and tell them that your relationship to THEM need not be defined by your relationship to HIM, and vise versa. Be strong, girl. Marrying someone or rushing to marry someone because of fear from threats of disownment doesn't sound good at all. It shouldn't be the #2 reason why you want to marry now. It shouldn't be a reason at all. The only reasons should be that YOU are ready, and HE is ready. And that can't be forced on a man. Trust me, I tried nagging, forcing, all that stuff, and here I am!!

And by ready, I mean not just emotionally ready, but financially ready, mentally ready, time/place ready.. all those "ready"s that are necessary for marriage.


I know you say you've had talks with him about the future, but talk to him again. Get a rough timeline on when he would like to be married and when he would want to be engaged. Don't hold that timeline too dearly, because we know here on LIW board that timelines are just goals and goals get passed all the time. There's a whole thread based on timelines. But at least it gives you solace that he's got some plan in his noggin, and that the plan includes you.

And set boundaries with your parents. Don't let them manipulate your relationship with their traditions, or their threats. It's one thing to try to control YOU, as their daughter, but it's another thing to drag your SO into it. Manipulation leads to resentment. Have an honest conversation with them, and tell them you love them, but they need to respect your boundaries, and that includes when you will marry your SO. If your mother is so scared of losing you when you move away, I doubt she is fond of any idea of disowning you. I call BS card on that claim!

 

[princesss]

Uggggh, my computer ate my post.

The gist of it was - why do you have to move in together? Move to the same city (or one close by), find your own job, and build a life there that includes him but doesn't center around him. You can always move in together later, but this gives you the chance to build your own network and your own life there. It can be very tempting to throw yourself into taking care of your BF and not building your own relationships with other people, which can be a huge mistake (especially if the worst happens).

I hope everything goes well for you, and if somebody else gives you the, "What's the wait?" BS just smile sweetly and say, "Well, what's the rush?" No matter what you feel on the inside or how ready you both are, it's none of their business what your timeline is, and I'd honestly just answer their question with the exact opposite of what they said. "Doesn't he love you enough to propose?" "I think the question is, do I love him enough to accept?" "Doesn't want to buy the cow, eh?" "I don't feel like buying the pig just for the sausage." But I'm contrary like that.

 

[Chewbacca]

How are you going, xkittin?