About to buy diamond $10k

[miclou]

Hi all

I am about to buy a diamond and in need of some expert advice...details are from a GIA certificate.

Shape - Round Brilliant, Measurements - 6.14 - 6.18 x 3.4mm, weight - 0.77 carat, Depth - 55.2%, Table - 59%, Girdle - medium faceted, Culet - none, Polish - Good, Symmetry - Good, Clarity Grade - IF, Colour grade - D, Fluorescence - faint, Crown angles are less than 30 degrees. ASK Price is $10,000.00 AUD.

Am I getting a bargan.

Thanks in advance

Mic

 

[YoungPapa]

Mic,

Terrible diamond. Terrible price.

Shop around. You can do so much better it''s not even funny.

BTW - for anyone else out there $10,000 AUD is just under $8,000 US.

 

[Jennifer5973]

No way--55% depth? You can do soooooooooo much better. i am not as much of a stickler for the strict numbers as some but this stone is way out of whack.

 

[phoenixgirl]

Actually, it is possible for this stone to grade in the "very good" range on the HCA, especially considering its spread. It all depends on the crown and pavilion angles.

However, traditionally the depth of a stone will be somewhere between 59 and 63%. If you are buying a D IF stone, that suggests to me that you are trying to get the best quality that money can buy. I would suggest instead looking for a stone that is slightly lower in color and clarity with an ideal cut.

Some examples:

0.94 E VVS1 H&A ideal for $7700 US

1.06 E VS1 ideal for $7798 US

The stone you''re looking at might be an unusually good performer for its cut . . . you need a sarin analysis to be sure. However, all the 0.75-0.80 D IF stones listed here on Price Scope are going for between $5127 and $5411 US, and they have more standard measurements. I''m not sure what the market is like in Australia, but I''m thinking that this stone is not a great steal.

Cut quality is the factor that will make or break your stone, much more than one or two grades in color and/or clarity. I''d rather have an ideal cut J SI2 than a lifeless D IF.

 

[Mara]

the depth is WAY too shallow and with crown angles under 30...this is probably a fish-eye type candidate stone. from the diameter #'s it probably doesn't even look much bigger than a typical well-cut .77 so you aren't gaining alot of diameter extra to make up for the bad cut.

from the D IF it looks like you want the perfect type of diamond...first off there isn't such a thing but if you are after that, at least focus on the CUT as well, trust me if the stone has a horrible cut, no one will care that it's D IF because the thing won't be that great looking regardless.

good luck.

edited to add: i ran some #'s on the HCA and even with optimal angles for this stone (aka 28.5 for crown and 40. for the pav, it still only scored a 2.5. chances of this diamond having those optimal angles sound somewhat slim, but there is that chance. however it's still only a 2.5..and for D IF color/clarity, focus some of that $$ on the CUT!!

 

[miclou]

I thought that the colour and the clarity of a diamond was more impotant, than the depth and table.


can the naked eye tell that this diamond is a bad cut diamond???

 

[Mara]

Date: 2/24/2005 11:49:59 PM
Author: miclou
I thought that the colour and the clarity of a diamond was more impotant, than the depth and table.


can the naked eye tell that this diamond is a bad cut diamond???

yikes I am so glad you found Pricescope!!

There are FOUR C's to a diamond, not two. Color, Clarity, Cut and Carat. Cut is just as important as any of the other three, and to some people it's MORE important than color or clarity. Alot of people have been conditioned to think that color and clarity, aka D IF are what is important, but that doesn't mean a thing if people can SEE that your cut of the diamond does not sparkle, has no life etc. You'll just have a very clear piece of shiny glass with no sparkle.

For most people there is a happy medium, aka doing something like an E VS1 where the stone is super white (looks like a D to 99.9% of the public) and eye-clean to anyone looking so they can't see any inclusions ,and then you can focus more on getting a better cut stone which IS what people notice.

I started out with a white brilliant stone that had a shallow depth and a large table like this one. After I learned more on PS...I got rid of that one and got a more ideal well-cut stone that sparkles like the dickens. People don't even care about color/clarity when they see my stone, they just say it's beautiful.

So hang around a bit, get an education and find out what your sweet spot is for the diamond. I bet you will find D IF is not as important as those who have told you that in the past...that is just a way to get you to spend alot of money on something the eye can't even see, when the eye CAN see sparkle and that means cut.

Good luck!

 

[AussieWombat]

Well, the naked eye couldn''t tell the difference between IF and VVS1/2.
In VS1/VS2, the inclusions are nearly impossible to see with the naked eye.

As for colour, it depends on how sensitive you are to colour, and what the lighting conditions are.

 

[YoungPapa]

miclou,

Color and clarity are very important. They are the primary aspects used in determining the VALUE of the diamond.

Unfortunately they don''t have too much to do with determining the BEAUTY.

If you buy an ideal cut diamond that is "I" color and "SI2" clarity it should garner more compliments than the D-IF you''ve posted.

Buying the D-IF would be like buying a wrecked Ferrari. Your friends will be impressed right up until they see what you got for your money...

 

[miclou]

The trouble of getting engaged....I hope she appreciates the research I have gone through.

Many thanks for your responses, starting to understand a little more.Found anothe diamond- Round Brilliant, 0.78 Carat, D IF, GIA CERT, Polish VG, Symmetry VG, Depth 60.6, Table 57. $8828.00 Australian Dollars

BUT when comparing this one with the first one Ithe first one sparkles alot better.


Total confusion

 

[Mara]

within the space of 6 hours since original post, you already found another diamond and saw it in person? wow, you are definitely diligent!

that second diamond doesn't really tell us much either except that it's got a GIA cert and the makings of a potential nice find through table and depth. however, you NEED to find a diamond with a SARIN report that has crown and pavilion angle information for anyone to really know much more.

also just out of curiousity, why the D IF determination? you could probably get a much bigger diamond if you dropped that down. but then again, i am a size girl and prefer a well cut large stone over high color and clarity anyday!

I would not rush this decision...take your time...do not decide within the space of one day.

 

[Mara]

as an added note, I found a .76 D VS1 AGS0 with nice looking specs on Wink's site (Winfields) for $4288 US...

just to show that if you dropped even just the CLARITY down from IF (because NO diamond is actually 'flawless' right? the FL or IF designations just mean that nothing is visible at 40x mag...but it doesn't mean that they aren't there!) to VS and it's eye clean, no one knows the diff, you can keep the D color and get a well-cut stone for about $2k less? if my calcs are somewhat correct.

anyway just an example of other items that are out there.

 

[rosy]

Oh dear! Don''t do it. My co-worker recently bought his girl a one carat D IF diamond & spent $20K. Ouch! Way too much, don''t waste your money on an IF diamond, you can''t tell clarity with the naked eye unless you drop to the SI-I range so why pay more for something you can''t see?

 

[asblackrock]

Hi miclou

I am an Aussie too and recently purchased my first significant diamond. As it was going to be a large purchase, I spent several months researching what it took to have a fantastic looking stone and I agree with Mara 100%.

In the end, the only one of the 4c''s I was unwilling to compromise on at all was the cut. If you get this right, you will maximize the apparent size of the stone and the amazing brilliance and fire will leave you breathless. Once the stone is set, it usually impossible to tell if you have a D, E or F, and a lot of people would suggest you could go even lower and not tell the difference under most circumstances if the cut is outstanding (a good cut masks the colour when face up).

Mara is right about clarity too - IF is not usually truly flawless. If you used high enough magnification defects would still be seen . It is a natural material. Even if you knew where the inclusions were, unless you have huge stone, it would be very unlikely to see the inclusions even at a VS2 level (5 levels worse than what you are looking for) without the aid of magnification. If you were very concerned, I think going with a VS1 would be very safely "flawless" to the naked eye under all conditions. This saving in cost could go to a better cut larger stone, which would look much more stunning.

You are obviously seeking perfection in colour and clarity, but ignoring the cut. A "D, IF" diamond can still look dull, smaller than it should, and lifeless if not well cut. Many stones look great under a jewellery store''s halogen lights, but unless cut well, these are likely to underperform in other circumstances. How many truly outstanding stones have you actually seen on people''s hands? A well cut stone can catch your eye from the other side of a room. To help assess the cut, you need details of the CROWN AND PAVILION ANGLES, as well as table and depth, girdle, size, culet, symmetry and polish. The crown and pavilion angles are not available on current GIA reports - you need to request a Sarin analysis from the vendor for this. It is also the combination of parameters which usually determine how a stone looks, rather than just the individual measurements themselves. This is one reason stones really need to be seen before making a final decision. Other tools, such as the Idealscope can help assess a stone''s cut. Well cut stones are rare and may take some time to find.

There are excellent tutorials available on this forum, as well as looking at tutorials from the various vendors here eg Whiteflash, NiceIce etc,etc. Take a bit of time before deciding what to do.

Have fun looking.

 

[valeria101]

'Guess D.IF can be pretty ugly allright. There's not much to look for in the rough material - most of the look is shape and brilliance. Of course it is possible to find even worse or some different type of "ugly" every time: it's easy if all you get to see are a couple of stones. If your search started by asking for D/IF the choices for different looks and better brightness would be very narrow indeed.

If you want D/IF as a symbol of somethng, I can totally understans. It still makes sense to ask for decent brilliance out of that material. You never know until you get to see what is actually feasible. It can't be that hard to find some ideal cut round of any color/clarity and compare the brighteness of the two.

Well, if brilliance and looks (size included) are not important, than why not.

Anything concerning diamonds is just a matter of choice after all.

Youn might want to look up "Fish Eye" - this piece should be one

 

[Lord Summerisle]

since your in Oz. might be worth getting in touch with Garry Holloway - at http://www.preciousmetals.com.au/ do a search for asblackrock to see someone elses ring they got though Garry. I''m sure he can help - plus i dont think you''ll get a dud from him... since he is a self confessed cut nut.