A big hiccup - feeling very nervous...

[CushionNovice]

Ok. I’ve been dreading this post but I think I need to vent.
For anyone that knows my story -

I needed to get my ER resized half a size down. I also need to get that little baby insured. It is very secure now at his dads place (and out of my temptation to look at it), but we will be moving back to my place at the end of this week and so it needs to be all insured etc before that move (if it’s going to sit in the cupboard for however long).

Ok – so I tell my BF all this and I’m sorting out details like if the ring stays at his dads or we take it with us and insure it etc. I told him that he needs to decide (trying to leave as much of the ‘location’ of the ring in his hands) which way to go and left it with him for a couple of days. He came to me and we had a very big talk. He told me that he isn’t close to ready yet and wanted me to be aware of that. When we broke down what the problem was, it transpires that he is very concerned that he won’t be ready for children within the next 18 months and he knows I am. He said that this is weighing heavily on his mind because of our (my) age (3 and that even though he may ‘get ready’ quicker he cannot guarantee it. So he didn’t want to enter into something when he felt there was a possibility he would ruin it by not being ready for children yet and me getting too old during the process of the wait.

I will be honest here and say it threw me for a six. I was devastated. Not particularly about the children thing - more about the hesitation..(I mean I think i want kids, but I would rather have this amazing man than children that I don't know - if that makes sencse).. We talked about it and I told him that whilst I’m really glad for his honesty, I guess the real issue here is if I compromise and wait for him re: kids, then will he still propose or does he want to wait until he is clearer about the kids thing. I need to know all of this so I can make the right choice here (because I need to be really really sure that I will still love him and not resent him if I miss out on the children thing)….Decide to marry and wait for kids (and be prepared if it doesn’t happen), or just wait for everything – which really means I will be the one to compromise on everything…. hmmmm

I asked him that if he thought he wasn’t going to be ready for marriage/proposal in the next year then why did we go to all this effort to get this amazing ring? He said he wanted me to get it and he knows it will happen but didn’t know when…. I told him that there was no point insuring a ring that will sit in a cupboard for a potential YEAR and that I should probably sell it and start again (HEARTBREAK!!!

) He said that would be horrible and he knows that I would somehow feel jaded about that (correct) and that he would forever feel like less of a partner if we did that. (I started to think about how the hell do you sell a brand new engagement ring anyway – never been worn!! And it’s SOOOOOO AMAZING!! That whole thought was pretty well, horrible.)

So I told him that I didn’t need to know straight away (he is also going through a massive career change right now too so I had to be a little calmer because of this I guess) so I said he needed to tell me by the time I move home (this Friday)….

I’m worried and scared and totally freaked out. But we are super tight so deep down I think it will be ok (we have this 100% honest policy about anything which sometimes can cause pain because we agreed to always tell each other or fears even if they hurt, but it’s a good thing most of the time.)…

So I guess I will find out what he is thinking, and then I will know where I stand..

Geesh. Thanks for listening, this is difficult… I’m just really nervous and scared that things aren’t as strong as I’ve ALWAYS felt they were.

 

[Grlsbestfrnd]

I''m so sorry to hear this. I think a lot of guys go through this. They start to realize all the changes that will come once they propose (like moving towards having kids) and they sort of get cold feet. I''m sure he''ll soon realize that he''s more ready than he thinks he is at this moment. I hope things work out well for you and I have a feeling they will.

***DUST***

 

[CushionNovice]

Thanks for saying that. I feel so defeated! Fingers crossed.

 

[slg47]

I can''t even imagine how shocked you must have been...maybe the stress of proposing/career change/etc is just getting to him and he needs to sort of have time to mull it over.

also maybe reassure him that you want to be married to him even if he doesn''t want to have kids right away?

anyway...that must be awful to have that gorgeous ring! you don''t want any bad feelings associated with it thats for sure. i''m not really sure what to say...so...DUST to you

 

[CushionNovice]

Thanks so much.
Yes.... it''s a bit of a shock. We will just have to wait and see....I feel like it will be ok, but you JUST NEVER KNOW and that''s freaking me out...

 

[iota15]

Date: 6/27/2010 11:28:33 PM
Author:CushionNovice


Ok. I’ve been dreading this post but I think I need to vent.
For anyone that knows my story -

I needed to get my ER resized half a size down. I also need to get that little baby insured. It is very secure now at his dads place (and out of my temptation to look at it), but we will be moving back to my place at the end of this week and so it needs to be all insured etc before that move (if it’s going to sit in the cupboard for however long).

Ok – so I tell my BF all this and I’m sorting out details like if the ring stays at his dads or we take it with us and insure it etc. I told him that he needs to decide (trying to leave as much of the ‘location’ of the ring in his hands) which way to go and left it with him for a couple of days. He came to me and we had a very big talk. He told me that he isn’t close to ready yet and wanted me to be aware of that. When we broke down what the problem was, it transpires that he is very concerned that he won’t be ready for children within the next 18 months and he knows I am. He said that this is weighing heavily on his mind because of our (my) age (3 and that even though he may ‘get ready’ quicker he cannot guarantee it. So he didn’t want to enter into something when he felt there was a possibility he would ruin it by not being ready for children yet and me getting too old during the process of the wait.

I will be honest here and say it threw me for a six. I was devastated. Not particularly about the children thing - more about the hesitation..(I mean I think i want kids, but I would rather have this amazing man than children that I don't know - if that makes sencse).. We talked about it and I told him that whilst I’m really glad for his honesty, I guess the real issue here is if I compromise and wait for him re: kids, then will he still propose or does he want to wait until he is clearer about the kids thing. I need to know all of this so I can make the right choice here (because I need to be really really sure that I will still love him and not resent him if I miss out on the children thing)….Decide to marry and wait for kids (and be prepared if it doesn’t happen), or just wait for everything – which really means I will be the one to compromise on everything…. hmmmm

I asked him that if he thought he wasn’t going to be ready for marriage/proposal in the next year then why did we go to all this effort to get this amazing ring? He said he wanted me to get it and he knows it will happen but didn’t know when…. I told him that there was no point insuring a ring that will sit in a cupboard for a potential YEAR and that I should probably sell it and start again (HEARTBREAK!!!

) He said that would be horrible and he knows that I would somehow feel jaded about that (correct) and that he would forever feel like less of a partner if we did that. (I started to think about how the hell do you sell a brand new engagement ring anyway – never been worn!! And it’s SOOOOOO AMAZING!! That whole thought was pretty well, horrible.)

So I told him that I didn’t need to know straight away (he is also going through a massive career change right now too so I had to be a little calmer because of this I guess) so I said he needed to tell me by the time I move home (this Friday)….

I’m worried and scared and totally freaked out. But we are super tight so deep down I think it will be ok (we have this 100% honest policy about anything which sometimes can cause pain because we agreed to always tell each other or fears even if they hurt, but it’s a good thing most of the time.)…

So I guess I will find out what he is thinking, and then I will know where I stand..

Geesh. Thanks for listening, this is difficult… I’m just really nervous and scared that things aren’t as strong as I’ve ALWAYS felt they were.

CushionNovice,

I can't even imagine how you must be feeling. I'm sending positive thoughts and dust your way.

If you could somehow manage it in this state, I think you should try figure out whether having children is important to you - BEFORE this Friday, when you move back in. You should be 100% honest with yourself. It's important to know what he thinks too, but if you really don't want to resent or regret what you decide to do as a couple, you need to figure out whether children to YOU is non-negotiable, preferable or not important at all.

Don't wait until he comes up with a decision to assess your feelings on whether or not to have children. Take this time to make an independent assessment. It doesn't mean you must have children right now or in the next 18 months, but you do have to figure out what place they have, if any, in your life.

You sound like you have a wonderful, open and communicative relationship with your SO. Of course you want to be with him. I just don't want his thoughts on the subject to confound what you might really want in your life later on.

 

[CushionNovice]

Thanks ioata for the advice. I know what your saying and I agree.
It''s weird because I''ve been thinking about this topic a lot of late... and if I''m REALLY honest I don''t know where I really stand on the topic. Is that weird? But yes I''m doing a lot of my own thinking so I can feel really sure about my own thoughts. I probably should have clarified earlier that his issues with not being ''ready'' are around money and where he is at in life, not actually about not wanting children. So I understand where he is coming from there.
But if I sit down and think about if it''s a deal breaker for me kids/no kids I''m not sure. Does everyone know that of themselves? Am I weird that I don''t know. I thought it would be one of those black and white judgements. I guess I just never thought that I would ever have to think about not having them... yes I''ve got a bit of deep searching to do...

If I had thought ten years ago that I wouldn''t have kids and a hubby by now I would have LAUGHED! But i guess when you get older and wiser you find out lots of things that work for you... hmm I think I''m rambling now.

This site is great for walking through stuff! Hmm back to my thoughts (and dinner that BF is upstairs cooking as I type this)...

 

[tyty333]

CN,
I think you should totally forget about the ring for now. Thats not the issue. The issues are...
a) does he want children? Sounds like yes just probably not in the next 18 months.
b) can you deal with waiting longer than 18 months to try to have children and possibly have it not happen?

I think you need to find out the answer to the first question. If he is ok with having kids but just not right away, you have to decide
if its worth waiting for him to be ready (18 months+) or should you cut your ties and move on looking for someone who is right for
you and wants to have kids right away (probably also longer than 18+ months but who knows).

I dont think I would move in together until I figured this out.

BTW, I had a baby at 39 and 42.

tyty

 

[MissMina]

From my nurses point of view.........
Have you discussed with your doctor your biological age
and the probability of your conceiving after 40?
This information could help in your decision.

 

[CushionNovice]

Date: 6/28/2010 7:23:19 AM
Author: tyty333
CN,
I think you should totally forget about the ring for now. Thats not the issue. The issues are...
a) does he want children? Sounds like yes just probably not in the next 18 months.
b) can you deal with waiting longer than 18 months to try to have children and possibly have it not happen?

I think you need to find out the answer to the first question. If he is ok with having kids but just not right away, you have to decide
if its worth waiting for him to be ready (18 months+) or should you cut your ties and move on looking for someone who is right for
you and wants to have kids right away (probably also longer than 18+ months but who knows).

I dont think I would move in together until I figured this out.

BTW, I had a baby at 39 and 42.

tyty

Thanks tyty,
a - Yes he wants kids - he feels its important that he can provide for them financially - that''s his freak out about not being ready yet.
b - thats what I need to work out....

Also - we already live together, we have just been staying at his dads for the past 3 months because we sub-let my place (to buy the ring!)... So it''s just on Friday that we finally get to go home..

 

[CushionNovice]

Date: 6/28/2010 7:28:58 AM
Author: MissMina
From my nurses point of view.........
Have you discussed with your doctor your biological age
and the probability of your conceiving after 40?
This information could help in your decision.

Thanks MissMina - no I haven''t thought of that... maybe I will.

 

[RaiKai]

My perspective - 18 months is not that far away. By the time you get engaged and married, even with a very short engagement, even less and I totally advocate spending time being just the two of you *married* before starting for kids.

So I see this two ways...18 months is not that far to wait AND 18 months is not that far why wait to get engaged and married IF you both agree on having children as this way you spend some time just the two of you first!

The IF is the big thing and I would be very sure you are on the same page. If you want them, be sure he does too and the financial reason is really the reason - as honestly there will likely never be a perfect time! What does he imagine will be different in 18 months than now? Do you two have a financial plan? How will you feel in 2 years if he is still not ready? I am very concerned he bought a ring and now is saying he was not ready when he bought it...

I do get those financial concerns though, right now we could not fairly afford a child as we rely mostly on my income, but we are not planning to have them (if we do) for a couple more years when DH has more time in and can take paternity leave.

I also get your own confusion. I quite honestly am a complete fence sitter. Before DH I really did not want kids that much. I like kids, but have never had that maternal urge to have them. Now I *crave* them with DH on a few levels...I would love children with him...but my life would still feel complete if we could not have them (though we may consider adoption in that case). So if DH/we could not have kids I would be fine. However, I think if he was adamant about not having them, I am not sure I would feel the same way.it is confusing!

As for age, it may be harder but not impossible! I know many women who had their first child around 40. And there are options of adoption, etc.

I am happy to hear you have a very open and honest relationship (though sounds like he may not be so immediately as things are going on!) because you two really need to talk openly and honestly!

Good luck.

 

[Jessie702]

I am so sorry hon, the only thing i can say is be strong, and do what you need for you

 

[ms.halo]

This is heartbreaking. From a purely clinical perspective you need to see a fertility specialist and freeze some of your eggs. Then you''ll have more time to wait for when he''s "ready." This might also take some of the pressure off of him, and that pressure might be what''s holding him back. Having said that, no one is EVER "ready" for kids.

 

[beezygal]

I''m sorry to hear that. Hope everything will work out fine by Friday. DUST!

 

[TheyCall]

oh honey, that is so scary. I completely know what you mean about being thrown for a six, it happened to me abut 6 months ago. Turned out to be a misunderstanding on my part, but goodness, I about died from dehydration from crying so much.

All I can say is, Tons of Dust going your way and that I agree that you need to take this time to figure out when YOU want children. I would advise using your "wedding date" as a reference point. That would be clearer for your SO I think. 18 months from now is very definite and it doesn''t take into account engagement and honeymoon changes. If you use the wedding as a reference point it allows you to make alterations to the time line as needed with out actually changing the children thing.

For example, (not true for me, seriously just an example) if I wanted to be engaged tomorrow, had a year engagement, then according to your timeline, I would have a kid or get pregnant in no more than 6 months from my wedding date. Instead, I think you should decide how long you want to be a married couple before taking on the responsibility of welcoming children into your family. For instance, if I wanted to enjoy being married for 2 years, I would say children in around two years instead of 36 months from now.

What do you think? It will make it a lot easier for your SO to understand, less stress to add on top of an engagement.

 

[luckynumber]

sorry to hear this.

again, from a practical POV, you need to understand that fertility declines significantly after 40.

freezing eggs may be an option, but by no means a failsafe method and can be an expensive process.

in your shoes, i would be just as worried TBH, if i really wanted kids.

i would have a very serious talk with my SO.

hugs OP x

 

[Sizzle]

I hope that everything will work out for you. I have read some of your posts andthere are a couple of red flags. First you as a could originally decided to get a CZ and you contemplated getting a real diamond and deceiving your FF about it. Why would this ever cross your mind? You mentioned a couple of times that you are the one who''s ready.. financially, emotionally what have you. You selected a ring, ordered the ring and were willing to relocate to make sure it was paid off. He appeared to just be "along for the ride". Now you''re ready to have a wedding, ready to plan for babies and he''s still not. From what you posted, he never said he was, and you just continued on planning and getting your mind ready for a wedding, browsing dresses, selecting rings, buying diamonds.

I firmly believe that when a man is ready for something HE makes it happen. He doesn''t just leave it to you and show up when he''s told to. I think it''s difficult to be a member of a community when everyone cheers you on when you''re searching for diamonds, posts their exciting updates of romantic proposals, and wedding planning and conception, BUT the harsh reality is, just because you want that (and there''s nothing wrong with wanting that), doesn''t mean your partner will just "get in line" and just because he wants you to be happy (encouraging you to get your dream ring), doesn''t mean he''s suddenly going to be on the same page as you are. Put the ring away, and by away I mean in a safety deposit box or someplace else untouchable and give him some time to get his stuff together (financially, emotionally). Reflect on what it is you love about him and give him some time to make things happen for you. Don''t sell yourself short. Don’t wait around forever, but give him some time. You have expressed what it is you want, let him reflect on that for a while.

 

[CushionNovice]

Thanks everyone for the good food for thought.
Sizzle - have taken your points on board - really good advice (thank you for taking the time to help) and I think putting the ring away is a good idea.. I want to make it clear (and sometimes on posts its not clear as we only write in brief - on the hop etc...) That yes there was a thought about changing the CZ to a diamond without his knowledge (I really didn''t want him to feel bad and that thought lasted a moment!) I told him and then we decided (together) that giving up my place was the way to get the real deal (and allow him to feel that he contributed to it)... he admitted that he didn''t feel right about the CZ and was genuinely happy that we found a way around it. I am comfortable with all of that and I know he is too.

In terms of the diamond purchase - he was fully across the purchase so it wasn''t something I was off doing alone. I can understand how some of my posts can seem otherwise. Yes I''ve been happily looking at dresses etc, and it''s been a lot of fun (we wouldn''t be having a big white wedding - a dinner for maybe 30, which again we have both talked about) So just thinking about the little details is fun.. It may appear that I''ve been running off in bride world, I''ve just been enjoying thinking about it. Which now that I write that I guess perhaps I was getting carried away without even realising it? So maybe I shouldn''t do that at all. Hmm. Thanks for making that a point for me to think about - I hadn''t thought about that before

In terms of the other posts here - HaloLove, RaiKai, LuckyNumber,Beezygal,MsHalo,Jessie702. Thank you! Yes I agree that 18 months is not long really and I totally want a no-kids time of just us. Which is exactly what I''m waiting for about Friday... I agree that if I factor in waiting for engagment, engagment, wedding then 12 months of trying then I''ve already chewed that up! My fear is that if he is thinking of waiting a year for the engagment then maybe I need to have a rethink.... And yes I''m really sure that the children thing is about money and money alone so I''m clear on that. No question. (He is about to change jobs where he will earn seriously nothing for a year)..

As an update - everday we have been chatting about little things and I decided to not bring up the big stuff until this weekend. I''ve also been really observing our relationship and he''s such a good man and I''m so happy with him. So we will see how this pans out. I think one of the things that I have been worried about it becoming a pushover if that makes sense. I think I hear too many horror stories about girls waiting on men and it never happens and I had a moment thinking ''oh my god is that me??'' but I think I''ve just been reading too much Cosmo at the hairdressers. I need to calm down a little and remember why we work so well.

Thank you ladies for being good advice, hand holders and straight talkers x

 

[Dreamer_D]

CN The points others have raised are important. Something else to consider: Do you think HE will be ok not having kids if his heel dragging means you are then not able to conceive and carry a child?

And are YOU really ok with that strong possibility if you wait 2 more years?

I don''t expect answers to my questions, I just want you to know that if you were my girlfriend and you came to me with this story, I would sit you down and pour you a glass of wine and we would have a long heart to heart, because it is unfair of him to say this to you. It is unfair of him to be ambivalent and in doing so, play with your chances of having a family. It is unfair and it is a red flag. You deserve better. It reminds me of my ex who I was living with for two years, who told me he loved me and I certainly loved him, but then informed me that he did not want "a serious relationship". TOO LATE! We are in a serious relationship. You and your bf are in a serious relationship already. You have presumably already planned your lives together. He is not allowed to pull this crap at this point and get off scott free. If you were my girlfriend, I would perhaps be urging you to think long and hard about what YOU want, and not worry so much about what he wants.

 

[CushionNovice]

Date: 6/29/2010 2:15:32 AM
Author: dreamer_d
CN The points others have raised are important. Something else to consider: Do you think HE will be ok not having kids if his heel dragging means you are then not able to conceive and carry a child?

And are YOU really ok with that strong possibility if you wait 2 more years?

I don't expect answers to my questions, I just want you to know that if you were my girlfriend and you came to me with this story, I would sit you down and pour you a glass of wine and we would have a long heart to heart, because it is unfair of him to say this to you. It is unfair of him to be ambivalent and in doing so, play with your chances of having a family. It is unfair and it is a red flag. You deserve better. It reminds me of my ex who I was living with for two years, who told me he loved me and I certainly loved him, but then informed me that he did not want 'a serious relationship'. TOO LATE! We are in a serious relationship. You and your bf are in a serious relationship already. You have presumably already planned your lives together. He is not allowed to pull this crap at this point and get off scott free. If you were my girlfriend, I would perhaps be urging you to think long and hard about what YOU want, and not worry so much about what he wants.

Thanks Dreamer. Rest assured that I have had a many wines with a few of my girlfriends and talked about this endlessly, so I apprieciate you saying that

Fortunately (or unfortunately?) ALL of them agree that whilst this is a bit rubbish, ALL of them agree that he is worth the wait (if I want to) and is a bloody great man who wont let me down... so at least that helps a bit that people who know him/know us (and these gals are feircely loyal and protective of me) believe it will be ok.

I'm hearing you all! And thanks for the words/support/thoughts/anything.. thanks

 

[swingirl]

I think by the time a man is 38 he should know if he wants kids or not. And 40 is getting old for males and females. Considering that you aren't even close to being engaged yet I think his in-action is really telling how he feels about having kids.

 

[CushionNovice]

Date: 6/29/2010 2:54:42 AM
Author: swingirl
I think by the time a man is 38 he should know if he wants kids or not. And 40 is getting old for males and females. Considering that you aren't even close to being engaged yet I think his in-action is really telling how he feels about having kids.

Hi swingirl! Thanks for your thoughts. I'm honestly not concerned that HE DOES NOT want kids. I know he does and I'm not concerned that he is using in action as a way of saying something else.... In terms of 'should know by 38', he knows - he just knows he is not ready financially. I'm not sure if I was clear about that in my original post now that I re-read it (whoops). He wants them - there is no doubt about that, but he is strongly against doing it before being really ready with us and $$ (currently I'm the breadwinner so to speak and he is really embarressed by that and needs to feel like he is contributing etc). And then the questions start in my mind (naturally/or not?) "Never a good time" "Time is running out" etc .... but I to be fair I wouldn't want to jump into that either if we weren't both on the same page...still makes it tough... I hope I make sense..

 

[iota15]

A lot of this seems to stem from money - or his lack of ability to make any in the next year or two. I'm not sure why he's in this situation (whether it's situational, endemic or to further his education). Since you both seem to want children, at this stage in your biological life (which I loathe saying), I think he's being a bit selfish for wanting to get financially ready first. Double income 20 year olds, without an apartment to sublet (which by the way, was a very creative way to finance your ering) have babies and provide for those children financially. I obviously don't know your situation - but I would gather you earn much more than one or two 20 year olds.

I understand how difficult it must be for him to not feel financially ready to support a family, and even more difficult to think you will be the main bread earner and mother at the same time. However, as long as you both believe he has the capability and drive to contribute to the family eventually, I don't see why it's really necessary to wait (other than his feelings of inadequecy, which granted, is not without its merits). However, the time it'll take for you to get engaged, married and have a brief time as a childless married couple should more than cover the 18 months he needs... unless there's some serious concerns by him that he will never be able to provide for you at all.

In the end, I don't see why he should risk a potentially permanent problem for what is a temporary situation in his life. He needs to pull up his big boy panties, put aside his ego and really assess what is right for you as a couple and your intended future family.

 

[CushionNovice]

Date: 6/29/2010 3:33:16 AM
Author: iota15
A lot of this seems to stem from money - or his lack of ability to make any in the next year or two. I'm not sure why he's in this situation (whether it's situational, endemic or to further his education). Since you both seem to want children, at this stage in your biological life (which I loathe saying), I think he's being a bit selfish for wanting to get financially ready first. Double income 20 year olds, without an apartment to sublet (which by the way, was a very creative way to finance your ering) have babies and provide for those children financially. I obviously don't know your situation - but I would gather you earn much more than one or two 20 year olds.

I understand how difficult it must be for him to not feel financially ready to support a family, and even more difficult to think you will be the main bread earner and mother at the same time. However, as long as you both believe he has the capability and drive to contribute to the family eventually, I don't see why it's really necessary to wait (other than his feelings of inadequecy, which granted, is not without its merits). However, the time it'll take for you to get engaged, married and have a brief time as a childless married couple should more than cover the 18 months he needs... unless there's some serious concerns by him that he will never be able to provide for you at all.

In the end, I don't see why he should risk a potentially permanent problem for what is a temporary situation in his life. He needs to pull up his big boy panties, put aside his ego and really assess what is right for you as a couple and your intended future family.

HONEY!
I AGREE WITH
E V E R Y S I N G L E W O R D Y OU H A V E S A I D!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have pretty much summed up exactly what I've been thinking - I read the above post and it was like my brain talking to myself. Thank you.
I just need him to get his head around that.....
PS - Financial thing is because he is about to further his education - and will need the year off for that. Long story short.

 

[Circe]

Iota5 articulated it beautifully. It''s seems like it''s his ego vs. your potential for having a family. You already had to go through all this hoopla so that he could feel he was contributing to the ring ... when does common sense trump his feelings? More importantly, where do *your* feelings fit into all this?

You''ve said he''s a wonderful guy, and all you want, and I hope you guys work all this out. But I also think that you''re in for a long period of his continuing to feel inadequate, through his schooling and attempting to get a foothold in his new career. Maybe you should see if couples counseling is available through his university?

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 6/29/2010 8:04:55 AM
Author: Circe
Iota5 articulated it beautifully. It''s seems like it''s his ego vs. your potential for having a family. You already had to go through all this hoopla so that he could feel he was contributing to the ring ... when does common sense trump his feelings? More importantly, where do *your* feelings fit into all this?

You''ve said he''s a wonderful guy, and all you want, and I hope you guys work all this out. But I also think that you''re in for a long period of his continuing to feel inadequate, through his schooling and attempting to get a foothold in his new career. Maybe you should see if couples counseling is available through his university?

I agree with all of this.

Feelings of inadequacy really are separate from a person''s actual social and financial reality, unfortunately. It is easy to point at something in your life and say "When THAT is changed I wil feel better/ready/stronger" but the reality is that confidence and optimism come from within, not from one''s life circumstances. I worry that he is pointing at things in his life as reasons for his feelings of doubt or worry, instead of looking within, and of course if he continues to look outside then he might never reach that point where he feels ready for marriage and kids

Counseling could be a good idea, though of course it means accepting that the excuses he is making are not valid

That is a hard one to accept for most people.

 

[RaiKai]

Date: 6/29/2010 1:24:54 PM
Author: dreamer_d

Date: 6/29/2010 8:04:55 AM

Author: Circe

Iota5 articulated it beautifully. It's seems like it's his ego vs. your potential for having a family. You already had to go through all this hoopla so that he could feel he was contributing to the ring ... when does common sense trump his feelings? More importantly, where do *your* feelings fit into all this?


You've said he's a wonderful guy, and all you want, and I hope you guys work all this out. But I also think that you're in for a long period of his continuing to feel inadequate, through his schooling and attempting to get a foothold in his new career. Maybe you should see if couples counseling is available through his university?

I agree with all of this.


Feelings of inadequacy really aseparate from a person's actual social and financial reality, unfortunately. It is easy to point at something in your life and say 'When THAT is changed I wil feel better/rre eady/stronger' but the reality is that confidence and optimism come from within, not from one's life circumstances. I worry that he is pointing at things in his life as reasons for his feelings of doubt or worry, instead of looking within, and of course if he continues to look outside then he might never reach that point where he feels ready for marriage and kids

Counseling could be a good idea, though of course it means accepting that the excuses he is making are not valid

That is a hard one to accept for most people.

Agreed. It is all about self-awareness and taking responsibility for one's feelings.

I have concerns that if he goes back to school and finds himself starting a new career - at the bottom for example - how is the situation going to be any better? Gosh, I went back to school for three years, and started at a lower salary than I had been making before I went back!

Just to relate a bit to your situation.

I am the main breadwinner right now, and probably will be for the rest of our lives together barring illness and the like. I have a lot of student loans from school. DH is paid quite a bit less than I, and was even unemployed for a while after taking an early retirement (where he WAS paid more than I am now!). It means we have to make a lot of tight budget decisions to live comfortably with our financial situation - for example I chose NOT to get an engagement ring when we originally got engaged. My ring now, well, it's a lab sapphire and I bought it with my tax return. We had a small wedding. We are renters again, after being former homeowners. There were times when DH did express he felt at times he felt a bit insecure as he was not working or making a whole lot, and he was not used to that and it did not fit with societal expectations for a 35+ year old man, however, this is something we freely talked about, and he also talked about with his counselor (who he was seeing for other things related to the military). Consciously of course he KNEW he was not a bum and it was not used to make excuses. He was quite aware that his feelings of insecurity were coming from an internal reaction to his own expectations of his self and the like. And he worked very hard at home so that I could work very hard at work! And I certainly did not consider him a bum - he had a long and successful career in the military and deserved some time off in my opinion and a less stressful job and he works very hard at his lower paying job and so on! Anyway, my point is that he does not make these things into excuses. It did not stop him from wanting to get married, and for us actually getting married. It does not stop us planning on having children and so on. And it definitely did not have him pulling a bait and switch deciding he was not ready after all!

That being said, we also make realistic choices with our situation in mind. We won't be intentionally having children for another year or two, once DH has enough time in at his new career so HE can stay home on paternity leave while I work, and we also want to spend time "just us"! We certainly are not really going to have any MORE money in a year or two (not much at least!). Our reasons are purely to make the best of what we do have (i.e. if he can go on paternity leave at least we get some replacement income). Our situation won't be "ideal". Ideally we would have significant savings (we do have some savings but it is locked in pension money) before starting. Ironically, we were in better situations when we were younger, before we each went through separations with previous common-law spouses, sold our homes, left jobs we did not enjoy and so on..... But I am near 31, and DH is near 36, and we do not want to wait until what might never really happen, to happen. I do think DH and I would be making the most responsible decision in our circumstances given our priorities and wants.

I am all for making responsible choices in YOUR situation. You and your SO might sit down and say it is not practical to have children while he is in school, but following that you will go for it. There will never be a perfect time, and if one is always looking for the perfect time...they will find themselves immobilized for life! I am about eight years younger than you, and I can say that if I WAS waiting for the perfect time to have kids it would honestly never happen. There would always be a reason to wait longer, until the next "milestone" came and went. And indeed, when I was not ready for them, there was always, always, an excuse. Those have faded as the desire to have them has increased. Which really has me wondering if he really WANTS children, or if he just wants to want them in some abstract way.

When someone is ready to do something...they do it. When they aren't, they find reasons not to. Whether it involves getting married, having children, going back to school, changing jobs, taking a dream trip....when someone WANTS something bad enough...they make it happen. Until they are ready for that leap, there will always be reasons not to. I know because I have been there in my own life in many of the situations described above, and seen many others go through it!

I find it incredibly peculiar that he was willing to move back into your parents (or wherever it was) for 3 months to save for a ring, that now apparently he does not plan to give as he does not feel financially ready for kids? In that case, why was this NOT discussed before the ring was ever even considered? A lot of options could have been considered at that time...such as skipping the ring altogether so you could put away money for children. I just don't get where the priorities, and thinking, is right now. And this is why I really, really wonder if the whole story is coming out here and if he is really ready to get married at all. As I read your posts and I keep thinking that he is giving a lot of excuses but not much honesty.

And if he really did not truly think of the meaning of marriage or what you had shared was important to you (i.e. children) before it came right up on him (i.e "cold feet" as someone else described)....he is in no way near ready to get married and you need to really be considering that.

 

[lilyfoot]

Great post, RaiKai!