60/60 question

[navymichael]

I was at a B&M yesterday, and I was taking a look at some marquise. I had learned from the site to look at the 4 C''s as well as the brilliance, bow tie etc. etc.

Anyways, the stones I was looking at were all GIA certified. But one of them stood out to my eyes better than the others. The salesperson said that it stood out because it was a 60/60 diamond. Does anyone know what that means? I don''t want to sound like an idiot, but it did look better than the others to me. But I''m not sure what the signifigance of the 60/60 thing she was talking about. It looked better, but it also was more expensive.

Thanks in advance for helping me out on this.

 

[pyramid]

She meant it was a 60% table and 60% depth diamond. Some people prefer those, DiamondsbyLauren who posts here is one but this is not considered by others to be ideal cut as 60% table is too big.

 

[pyramid]

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/60.asp

Here is the link from this site about 60/60 diamonds. See the tab ''knowledge'' at the top of this page, then choose ''advanced tutorial'' this gives you lots of knowledge about diamonds.

 

[navymichael]

If it''s not ideal, I wonder why the salesperson said that it cost more because of the 60/60. Is it considered ideal to some and not ideal to others? How would I figure it out for sure?

 

[navymichael]

This is the report on it from GIA



Report Type: GIA Diamond Grading Report

Date of Issue: March 10, 2005

Marquise Brilliant

Measurements: 10.27 x 5.14 x 3.09 mm

Carat Weight: 0.92

Color Grade: G

Clarity Grade: SI1

Proportions:

Depth: 60.1 %

Table: 60 %

Girdle: Thin to Thick, Faceted

Culet: None

Finish:

Polish: Good

Symmetry: Good

Fluorescence: None

Comments: Surface graining is not shown. A laser groove is not shown.

 

[Lorelei]

I know that 60 60 in a round can be a lovely diamond and has many fans, but I don't know if this applies to Marquise cuts....maybe Jazmine might see this thread, she has a stunning Marquise and may be able to give you some pointers. I will add the cut grading chart for you in a sec, that might help.

Here you go - see if this helps. http://diamonds.pricescope.com/fnc3.asp also if you go to knowledge at the top of the page and click on fancy shapes, you should find more info there. Regarding the laser groove, I wonder if this diamond has been lasered, might be best to check.

 

[MacClure]

navy michael .....from one navy guy to another, watch out for those sales people! most of the one's i've dealt with either didn't know much or knew what i was talkin' about but still wanted to sell me what they had, not what i wanted. most of the time, they didn't have the 'quality' i was lookin' for. and, on the rare occasion they did, the prices were outrageous. here's my recommendation brother.......stick around here and learn a bit. 3/4 up towards the top right of this page is a 'search' button. use it to search for the questions you have....i.e: 60/60 rule, or 65/65 rule, or anything to do with a marquise diamond. but, be forewarned, you may become dangerous when you begin to learn! oh, also, just to get a general idea on the cost of your particular diamond, perform a search (not the search button i previously wrote about....) using the diamond specs using the search 'bar' directly above, near the top of this page....have fun....

by the way, if you post some of the 'four c's' of your desired diamond, alotta folks here'll help you out......

(oh! people beat my post to the punch...i love it!)

Go Navy!

 

[Lorelei]

TH does bring up a good point - are you set on buying from a B&M? That is fine if you are most comfortable that way, just bear in mind you might get more for your money online....

 

[navymichael]

Yes, I like B&Ms and I know I''ll be paying more. Thanks for the help! I''ll be using the search button a lot

Go Navy!

 

[valeria101]

You will probably find similar info across the board - that the two numbers are OK, as many others if the crown and pavilion angles / proportions 'work' (i.e. you've got one 60-60 diamond, with nice light return).


For rounds...

As far as I know, this '60-60' thing was and is still used as a description of better cut quality. However, it has little to do with the notion of 'ideal cut' used by AGS0 and around this forum - those refer to brilliance and optical symmetry described with allot more precision than table & depth can.

Now, perhaps 60/60 has better chances to be a nice diamond with proper proportions than say, 70/70! And long before 'Ideal' and 'Hearts and arrows' came around, this meant something.

So... it is an older and looser quality mark alright.


For example, you may find some AGS0 with 60 -60 table and depth too. Only to make it as an AGS Ideal cut, that diamond would also have to have great light return, finish and proportions. The 60-60 represents a little of the proportion-based grade that goes into the AGS standard - there would be many more checks, and IMO more important (light return is, say, and it doe snot depend on the 60-60 only).


There's no AGS0 or any other sort of 'official' marquise yet though. So, ok, 60/60 may sound good, it doesn't explain why that one stone looks nicer and does not guarantee (IMO) that it looks nicer than most. Maybe it is... I don't know without seeing it of knowing more about it otherwise.

Chances are the diamond you saw was either not so great but way better than the rest in the shop, or indeed one 60-60 with fine proportions. The GIA report does not contain information on those, so even if the sales lady knew about them she could not have told you much more about diamond...well, usually sales folk do not tell much about what they do not know or cannot provide.

My 2c


If you wanted to tell the story of how good or bad diamonds 'on the ground' are, describing what they look in a standard viewing environment is one way to do it. Little toys like the Ideal Scope and ASET are meant just for that - to put in 'words' what diamonds look like when they are not available to line up side by side and compare. definitely useful online, but quite OK for local shopping perhaps, as between two shops it isn't quite easy to line up diamonds side by side in decent lighting (which is not the blinding stuff over the counter - something closer to normal would do).

Hope some of this helps.

 

[Mara]

hmm never heard of 60/60 being used for a MARQUIS stone as a ''term''....has anyone else?

i don''t know a thing about marquis stones but i would definitely keep doing your homework if shopping with a B&M, most of them out there have no clue of what they are speaking about or selling.

my suggestion is to work with a small local jeweler if possible, someone you can trust who doesn''t scoff at the idea of new technology and listens to you rather than tries to tell you ''in their experience'' what you should buy.

 

[Lorelei]

No thats what I was wondering Mara.....

 

[MacClure]

michael........nuthin'' wrong with feelin'' more comfortable goin'' to a B/M. especially a ''specialty'' jeweler you feel comfortable with. just get armed with info, so you know WHAT you''re gettin'' with your real hard earned cash! g''luck, thanks for serving our country in the past...or presently!

by the way, alotta folks''re willin'' to help ya around here....for free. so, use it up!

 

[valeria101]

Date: 4/2/2006 2:28:27 PM
Author: Mara

hmm never heard of 60/60 being used for a MARQUIS stone as a 'term'....has anyone else?

Asschers, emerald cuts, pears... or whatever happens to be in stock - you name it!

Wonder how the story started (hoping for a good intention gone wrong

.

 

[MacClure]

Date: 4/2/2006 2:28:27 PM
Author: Mara
hmm never heard of 60/60 being used for a MARQUIS stone as a ''term''....has anyone else?

i don''t know a thing about marquis stones but i would definitely keep doing your homework if shopping with a B&M, most of them out there have no clue of what they are speaking about or selling.

my suggestion is to work with a small local jeweler if possible, someone you can trust who doesn''t scoff at the idea of new technology and listens to you rather than tries to tell you ''in their experience'' what you should buy.

(''mara''.....sorry to quote ya)

michael, i''ll try to shut up after this (i got a setting to shop for anyhow)....but ''mara'' here is puttin'' it short and sweet....these were my issues with the salespeople i came in contact with....i even had a friend who referred me to a friend of his for ''25 years'', who did exactly what ''mara'' described here....."tries to tell you ''in their experience'' what you should buy." .......

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 4/2/2006 2:28:27 PM
Author: Mara
hmm never heard of 60/60 being used for a MARQUIS stone as a ''term''....has anyone else?

i don''t know a thing about marquis stones but i would definitely keep doing your homework if shopping with a B&M, most of them out there have no clue of what they are speaking about or selling.

my suggestion is to work with a small local jeweler if possible, someone you can trust who doesn''t scoff at the idea of new technology and listens to you rather than tries to tell you ''in their experience'' what you should buy.

Mara it does sound like a sales assistant with a little bit of NQR knowledge being dangerous.

There is another current topic / link on the board that might help here https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/thoughts-on-marquise-ideal-scope-pics-attached.42742/

 

[RockDoc]

I''m curious about the comment on the report......

a) surface graining ....

b) LASER GROOVE..... Why would someone cut a groove in a marquise? I would think that is done primarilly for invisible setting.. but never seen a marquise need that. So wonder if it is some other type of lasering? Is there an inclusion at the edge of the stone?

Rockdoc

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 4/2/2006 9:00:36 PM
Author: RockDoc
I''m curious about the comment on the report......

a) surface graining ....

b) LASER GROOVE..... Why would someone cut a groove in a marquise? I would think that is done primarilly for invisible setting.. but never seen a marquise need that. So wonder if it is some other type of lasering? Is there an inclusion at the edge of the stone?

Rockdoc

Laser grooves seem to be a new thing GIA has gone flippo over.

When planning a rough diamond it is usualy to mark the rough with 2 small lines for the sawer to saw between. This is done with a low power laser that puts a tiny burn mark on the stone.

Sometimes after bruting and polishing a tiny bit of the sawers line is still visible - imagine the effect of a laser inscribed diamond that has had the inscription poilished 99% off.

GIA in their infinite wisdom have recently began making this sale killing comment.

On my last overseas buying trip we looked at a few stones with this comment - in all 3 cases the lines were so infentesimanly small - 1 a young guy could see and i could not - not for love nor money - even when he showed me exactly where it was on the girdle.

 

[navymichael]

I think the stone I was looking at was engraved with some sort of serial number. It was also called an "Elexese" if I remember correctly.

I know name brands can be deceiving. But I also know that most name brands will AT LEAST give an uneducated buyer a good stone. Maybe I''ll be ripped off, but at least a name brand stone will be a good one right?

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 4/2/2006 11:34:50 PM
Author: navymichael
Maybe I''ll be ripped off, but at least a name brand stone will be a good one right?

Not all name brands are created equal. You''re better off educating yourself and learning what makes a good stone, how to read the GIA or AGS reports and what questions to ask, than just blindly trusting a brand name in my opinion. Nothing wrong with wanting to purchase though a B & M. Many pricescope vendors have local stores so you might consider seeing if one of them is in your area.

 

[valeria101]

Hm.. it is better to know what the brand stands for... there are so many named diamond cuts these days! Each with its own merit: it can be a true guarantee of fine make and brilliance, or decent looking for the flattest or deepest acceptable cut - who knows? there are dozens and dozens of such brands - like shoes! Many do not live very long .

GIA publishes a list with all patented cuts (a few dozens), but branded are many more.


Anyway, I do not know anything about Elexese. There is a website (LINK) that gives a range of depth, table and length (l/w) for the branded marquises. If these indeed guarantee brilliance, maybe - don't know. They certainly do not care to to go into detail, which is not uncommon though - as good or bad as many others such presentations online basically saying 'thes eare the best diamonds because they are ours'

It's a matter of choice whm to believe: Blue Nile? Tiffany? These guys? Each says the same thing...

 

[valeria101]

It may be fantastic - you can see it, I cannot.

As is, the presentation was not meant to be understood and appreciated online, where the diamond itself cannot be present to speak for itself. So... maybe this is why the welcome here was rather cold. Even that bit of comment on the lab report - it sounds like a big deal, but... is it? It doesn't say 'laser drilled - clarity enhanced' on the lab report after all, and the pinch itself could be very minute like the examples mentioned by Garry... what do I know?


The worse part of this is that online or off, unless you have some idea what to look for, it is still one rather blind decision what to go for.


As much as I can tell.


Perhaps not much could go wrong after all. Assuming most of the marquise appeal is in the shape, and that you already like, and the diamond is not particularly lifeless, or with a ridiculously obvious bow tie (that most seem to find offending)... why not. Unfortunately these details are not apparent from the description.