3-stone criss-cut diamond ring. Good deal or not?

[lornajs]

Hi!
This is my first post and I''d really appreciate any advice on pricing. I have NO idea about pricing and it is difficult to get a good idea from the internet.
I am currently looking to make my first "significant" diamond purchase - a 3 stone criss-cut diamond ring, set in platinum. Here are the basic specs for the ring:
Centre Stone - 1.74 carats / D colour / VS1 clarity
Side stones - 1.70 carats total / F colour / VVS
The store I''m buying from is kind of upscale, and I''ve not been able to negotiate the price down much from the first price offered by them (by the way, I live in Hong Kong, so EVERYTHING is negotiable). The shelf price was about $26,500 (USD). Before I even batted an eyelid, they immediately lowered the price to $23,000. Since then, I''ve managed to negotiate down to $22,200 (USD). They won''t seem to move from this and claim they''ve already given me a great price.
Sooooo, was wondering if anyone can let me know if indeed this is a good price for a ring this size and quality, or if I could do better!
Really appreciate any thoughts.
Lorna

 

[ChooChoo]

We need to know MUCH more about the ring to give any kind of meaningful advice - for starters, who did the certificate, and can you get a copy of it to post on this site? The most important thing is cut, and this diamond could be terribly cut for all we know about it.

 

[DonaBella]

Date: 2/9/2006 12:33:59 AM
Author:lornajs
Hi!
This is my first post and I''d really appreciate any advice on pricing. I have NO idea about pricing and it is difficult to get a good idea from the internet.
I am currently looking to make my first ''significant'' diamond purchase - a 3 stone criss-cut diamond ring, set in platinum. Here are the basic specs for the ring:
Centre Stone - 1.74 carats / D colour / VS1 clarity
Side stones - 1.70 carats total / F colour / VVS
The store I''m buying from is kind of upscale, and I''ve not been able to negotiate the price down much from the first price offered by them (by the way, I live in Hong Kong, so EVERYTHING is negotiable). The shelf price was about $26,500 (USD). Before I even batted an eyelid, they immediately lowered the price to $23,000. Since then, I''ve managed to negotiate down to $22,200 (USD). They won''t seem to move from this and claim they''ve already given me a great price.
Sooooo, was wondering if anyone can let me know if indeed this is a good price for a ring this size and quality, or if I could do better!
Really appreciate any thoughts.
Lorna

Have you given much thought about checking to buy a diamond with an online vendor? A lot of folks here on PS, including myself, have had excellent and secure experiences with trustworthy vendors and been very happy...just a thought...

Also, does the stone have to be such a high color? You may want to consider a color towards a G that is just as white and sparkly but a whole lot less money.

 

[Jelly]

I would do a Pricescope search and check out the prices for stones of this size.

You need to find out more information about this diamond...For example, is it ideal cut? Does it come with certification?

Is this a designer ring? Who is the designer?

 

[Dancing Fire]

lornajs

welcome to PS

what is a criss-cut diamond ring?

btw; i was born in H.K.

are you chinese?

 

[valeria101]

These Criss-cuts seem to have caught - allot of proprietary fancy cuts no one ever hears about, this one keeps turning up in designer collections (try a search for ''Cristopher Designs'', say).

Anyway, I''d compare the price with radiant and emerald cuts with the same specs... Usually there is a premium for ''named'' shapes, but in this case, it does sound like you have got a deal: the database above returnd quotes around 13k for similar radiants and around 4k for the sides (each). Which sort f add up to the 22k - leaving a bit for the setting.

Unless ... the high grades are not acurate. Is there a lab report (at least for the center stone)?




For the record

the Ciss Cut is arectangular thing with scissor facets...

Among the jewelers mentioned on this forum, Judith Arnell keps these in store. And I couldn''t say the rings look half bad!

 

[lornajs]

Hi there,
Thanks for your reply!
I''ve lived in HK for more than 4 years, but I''m from Australia originally (not of Chinese origin).
The stone comes with GIA certificate (as do the side stones).
What does "mind clean" mean? That''s something new for me!
Thanks!
Lorna

 

[lornajs]

Hi there!
Thanks so much for the reply.
The certificates are from GIA. I can get copies. Will ring the jeweller and as them to fax. I also saw the criss-cut "brand" cut into the side of the diamond with the magnification glass.
How will I be able to tell if the cut is great from the GIA report? Excuse my alarming ignorance ...

 

[valeria101]

Date: 2/9/2006 4:45:37 AM
Author: lornajs

What does ''mind clean'' mean? That''s something new for me!

Oh... that''s one saying part of Pricescope''s own little flolklore

You might want to run a search for fun, but it basically means ''something that you are happy to live with''. I think the term started to be used about SI diamonds that look better than the grades ''sound''. Sure enough, this doesn''t apply to your VS/VVS choices.

 

[lornajs]

Hi Deanne,
Thanks so much for the reply.
I had not considered buying a diamond online. I guess it makes me feel a little nervous to buy something so valuable over the web.
As for colour of the diamond, no, it does not have to be such a high grade - it just happened that this particular ring featured a stone of D colour and I was immediately smitten by the criss-cut cut and the design of the ring. I''d not really considered a rectangular shape before, but I loved this one immediately. It has a classic appeal and a streamlined Art Deco feel to it - features I appreciated.
I saw another vendor today who managed to get his hands on a 2 carat criss-cut (E colour), but the price jump was considerable (esp bc the two side stones had to be increased in size too in order to maintain the proportions i liked) - about USD 35K - out of my budget sadly!
Lorna

 

[lornajs]

Sorry, just realised i did not answer your question about the criss-cut. It is a rectangular shaped cut made from Emerald cut rough. The difference is that it has more facets than the EC and therefore is "sparklier". I can vouch for this as I''ve viewed EC alongside criss-cut and the difference is remarkable. It''s a very very very shiny cut! A standard EC just doesn''t do it for me anymore - not after seeing the criss-cut!

 

[valeria101]

Date: 2/9/2006 4:49:00 AM
Author: lornajs


How will I be able to tell if the cut is great from the GIA report?

The reports are not meant to show much about ''cut quality'' anyway - so there is (nearly) nothing to know.

You will get table, depth and girdle thickness on the reports and only extreme values for these are a bit alarming. Say, depth close to 80% is not great for any shape - in theory, that means the diamonds in cause look small for their weight and traditional shapes are discounted fir such a thing. ''Extremely thin'' girdles are also a ''red flag'' - considered to be too brittle for safety.

The other side of ''cut quality'' - brilliance, is nowhere on the lab report. You could check if these three diamonds have it at least as nice as a good traditional emerald cut by comparison... or something (check our www.ideal-scope.com for an idea), but there is allot to be said about the appeal of the shape over that. With or without some controlled lighting environment at and (like that IScope provides, but that''s just one geeky idea out of a long list), brilliance is a matter of ''what you see is what you get''. At the very least, you could take a look at the ring in different lights, and more importantly away from the over-the-top lighting in in the jewelry store (well, I don''t know what this shop uses, but most make a point of wasting allot of electricity to make anything glitter).

My 2c

 

[valeria101]

Date: 2/9/2006 4:55:43 AM
Author: lornajs


I saw another vendor today who managed to get his hands on a 2 carat crisscut (E colour)...

Does it have to be a three-stone ring? 2 carat solitaire sounds lovely indeed...

 

[lornajs]

Date: 2/9/2006 2:25:15 AM
Author: valeria101

These Criss-cuts seem to have caught - allot of proprietary fancy cuts no one ever hears about, this one keeps turning up in designer collections (try a search for ''Cristopher Designs'', say).

Anyway, I''d compare the price with radiant and emerald cuts with the same specs... Usually there is a premium for ''named'' shapes, but in this case, it does sound like you have got a deal: the database above returnd quotes around 13k for similar radiants and around 4k for the sides (each). Which sort f add up to the 22k - leaving a bit for the setting.

Unless ... the high grades are not acurate. Is there a lab report (at least for the center stone)?




For the record

the Ciss Cut is arectangular thing with scissor facets...

Among the jewelers mentioned on this forum, Judith Arnell keps these in store. And I couldn''t say the rings look half bad!

Thanks for your reply! Much appreciated.
The stones come with GIA reports - the centre stone and side stones. I only viewed the GIA report for the centre stone, as I was simulaneously trying another vendor to source / make the identical ring (because I assumed the first jeweller would be over-pricing). But it seems to me the second vendor is pretty much on par with the upscale jeweller. I was suprised, bc I''d had a couple of people telling me this jeweller could get the best prices in HK. So perhaps the upscale jeweller was being quite genuine when telling me that the price was as good as it would get.

 

[lornajs]

Date: 2/9/2006 1:39:21 AM
Author: Jelly
I would do a Pricescope search and check out the prices for stones of this size.

You need to find out more information about this diamond...For example, is it ideal cut? Does it come with certification?

Is this a designer ring? Who is the designer?

Hi there,
THanks for replying.
I tried a Pricscope search, but couldn''t see any ref to criss-cuts.
What does Ideal cut mean? (excuse my ignorance). It does have GIA certification and I''m going to ask the jeweller to fax a copy to me so I can post the precise specs.
The ring is designed by Mabros, a Hong Kong based upscale jeweller. They seem to focus mostly on diamonds, with a large selection of Ashoka cuts.
The ring itself is a usual 3-stone, but the side stones are larger than would normally put togther which gives the ring an unusual and striking proportion / balance. The prongs are also very thin at the top of the diamond which makes them virtually invisible, making the diamonds appear to be sitting next to each other in a very clean manner. (does that make sense?)
I also had another jeweller (who sources stones / custom designs) some criss-cuts of similar size / quality, and I was surprised when the prices he gave me were pretty much identical (E colour /VVS1 - 1.70 carats and another the same at 2 carats). The price jump, of course, to 2 carats was significant, and took me out of my budget (especially bc it meant that the 2 side stones had to jump size to .9 / 1 carat!!). I''m starting to think that I have been offered a good deal - but like you and some other forum members have pointed out, need to look closely at the GIA report, a suggestion that I will most definitely follow-up!
Thanks.

 

[lornajs]

Thanks for that advice. I doubt this particular jeweller would purchase stones that did poorly on the GIA points you mentioned, but I will most certainly check nonetheless. Can never be too careful - especially when parting with such a lot of cash!!! ha ha

 

[lornajs]

There''s a thought! Certainly an option worth thinking about.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 2/9/2006 5:07:11 AM
Author: lornajs

I was surprised, bc I''d had a couple of people telling me this jeweller could get the best prices in HK. So perhaps the upscale jeweller was being quite genuine when telling me that the price was as good as it would get.

It looks like the price would be good for any fancy cut with those specs... but especially with a patented cut like this, it may be that the supplier controls prices in some way, as it happens with designer jewelry. So if bargains are to be found, that could be an estate piece, not new. Since this isn''t a common cut, I wouldn''t hold my breath until finding such a thing

Btw. if you liked this cut, ''thought you might like to see a scissor cut on a colored stone - it may not be too common in diamonds, but scissor cut tourmaline and tanzanite are nothing too exotic. There''s a very striking example down THIS LINK (they call the cut ''Switchback Emerald''.

 

[lornajs]

ooooh!!!!!!! that is sooo beautiful! I likey!

 

[tiger007g]

Hi Lornajs - I think it sounds beautiful. I love the unique look of a criss-cut, and assuming that the stones are as they are represented on the GIA reports and quality of the cut checks out, it sounds like a fair price.

I found this in a JCK article from 2000:

"Criss Cut. An emerald cut developed in 1996 that’s faceted to bring out more brilliance and fire; 77 facets, some crisscross; rectangular shapes or octagon cuts. Pricing: approximately 10% to 15% higher than prices for emerald cuts. Christopher Designs Inc., 42 W. 48th St., New York, NY 10036; (800) 955-0970 or (212) 382-1013."

BTW: I was born in Hong Kong, grew up mostly in Australia, and have now been in the U.S. for nearly 10 years! My parents moved to HK a few years ago and I get to visit every so often... I really miss the food over there!

 

[indecisive]

Is that the same thing as the Ashoka cut? I saw soe in person and they were very pretty and unusual.

 

[lornajs]

Date: 2/9/2006 10:48:45 AM
Author: tiger007g

Hi Lornajs - I think it sounds beautiful. I love the unique look of a criss-cut, and assuming that the stones are as they are represented on the GIA reports and quality of the cut checks out, it sounds like a fair price.

I found this in a JCK article from 2000:

''Criss Cut. An emerald cut developed in 1996 that’s faceted to bring out more brilliance and fire; 77 facets, some crisscross; rectangular shapes or octagon cuts. Pricing: approximately 10% to 15% higher than prices for emerald cuts. Christopher Designs Inc., 42 W. 48th St., New York, NY 10036; (800) 955-0970 or (212) 382-1013.''

BTW: I was born in Hong Kong, grew up mostly in Australia, and have now been in the U.S. for nearly 10 years! My parents moved to HK a few years ago and I get to visit every so often... I really miss the food over there!

Thanks for that. The criss-cut is really lovely. I fell in love with it as soon as I saw it.
I''ve been away from Australia for 8 1/2 years now - lived in Singapore before coming to Hong Kong. It''s been a great experience. And - like you say - the food is great! Hong Kong people really LOVE their food!! Lunch and dinner is a serious business here! ha

 

[lornajs]

Date: 2/9/2006 11:20:48 AM
Author: indecisive
Is that the same thing as the Ashoka cut? I saw soe in person and they were very pretty and unusual.

I would describe the criss-cut cut as similar to the Ashoka, but more linear. The Ashoka, IMO, looks more ''rounded'' around the edges, although the criss-cut has similar long / scissor-like cuts. Both are undeniably beautiful and unusual, but I like the streamlined linearity (is there such a word? I think i just made that up!) of the criss-cut better.

 

[lornajs]

Date: 2/9/2006 1:20:24 AM
Author: ChooChoo
We need to know MUCH more about the ring to give any kind of meaningful advice - for starters, who did the certificate, and can you get a copy of it to post on this site? The most important thing is cut, and this diamond could be terribly cut for all we know about it.

Hi again,
As suggested, here''s some more information about the ring, based on the the GIA cert for the centre stone (they don''t have GIA''s for the side stones, though I can check for the "CRISSCUT" brand mark on the side when I go back). Here are the details:
Measurements: 9.61 x 5.34 x 3.43 mm
Weight: 1.74 carat
Proportions
Depth - 64.2%
Table - 73%
Girdle - med to slightly thick
Finish
Polish - Good
Symmetry - Good
Clarity = VS1
Colour - D
Fluorescence - None
Does this sound like a good stone? From what I can make out (searches for similar stones / sizes / clarity), the price is reasonable.
I really appreciate your help!

 

[valeria101]

Date: 2/10/2006 7:11:20 AM
Author: lornajs

Hi again,
As suggested, here''s some more information about the ring, based on the the GIA cert for the centre stone .

I wish I could help better, but have no idea what could be said about proportions and what not for this particular cut. I would venture to say that due to the smaller facets on the pavilion (relative to what traditional ECs have), the larger table would not be undesirable in the same way it may be thought to be for a step cut diamonds (i.e. reducing scintillation).

Other thing that anyone could compare with other rectangular diamonds regardless of cut ... would be size. And that seems relatively large among radiants and emerald cuts of similar specs.


Hope someone could chime in with more.

 

[lornajs]

Date: 2/10/2006 7:37:16 AM
Author: valeria101

Date: 2/10/2006 7:11:20 AM
Author: lornajs

Hi again,
As suggested, here''s some more information about the ring, based on the the GIA cert for the centre stone .

I wish I could help better, but have no idea what could be said about proportions and what not for this particular cut. I would venture to say that due to the smaller facets on the pavilion (relative to what traditional ECs have), the larger table would not be undesirable in the same way it may be thought to be for a step cut diamonds (i.e. reducing scintillation).

Other thing that anyone could compare with other rectangular diamonds regardless of cut ... would be size. And that seems relatively large among radiants and emerald cuts of similar specs.


Hope someone could chime in with more.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Jelly]

Whoa! *DROOOOOOOL*

Those diamonds are beautiful. I think i''m in love with that criss cross cut!

Get the ring! I selfishly say that so we can get some beautiful hand shots!

 

[lornajs]

Date: 2/10/2006 9:09:29 AM
Author: Jelly
Whoa! *DROOOOOOOL*

Those diamonds are beautiful. I think i''m in love with that criss cross cut!

Get the ring! I selfishly say that so we can get some beautiful hand shots!

I''m definitely getting close to taking the leap! And you can be sure I''ll be posting pix on the site ASAP! The design, by the way, is very similar (proportionally) to the Ashoka cut ring posted further up.

 

[Kaleigh]

It sounds like a beautiful ring. Having never seen a criss-cut in person, I can''t wait for your pics!!

 

[lornajs]

OK - I got the ring!!! And managed to get another little discount on the previous "final" price, so very happy indeed. It is currently being resized, so I''ll be able to post a picture of it next Tuesday. Looking forward to sharing the pix with you all.
Thanks to everyone for their feedback and input.
x
Lorna