3 essential rules of buying gems

[Gailey]

Date: 10/15/2009 2:14:28 PM
Author: mastercutgems
Why yes... as I know many cutters still cut synthetics; they like it as it is cheap and they have fun with it. They can also practise unusual cuts they have done in gemcad and other software gem and light or ray tracing programs. That way if the cutting diagram goes a-rye you will not be wasting precious material... Not all cutters cut for profit; they cut for their personal collections.

I know some 18 years ago when I first got into it; I bought a parcel of aquamarine at a gem show. They were all frosty alluvial pieces of rough; water worn; unfortunately one that was really pretty turned out to be a old coke bottle that someone had broken and put in a tumbler. It was a permanent reminder to buy a Refractometer and use it on a regular basis. But back then 500 dollars bought a lot of rough. And a lot more glass

Luckily there was only one piece of glass; but unfortunately that was the prettiest piece in the lot...
But it can and will happen; oh the stories I could tell...

But it will only take one time for you to learn your lesson and will teach you to test, test, test...

Dana, just a small point, but these are hard times for a lot of people. Not everyone can afford the gem of their dreams and will sometimes seek an alternative. In that respect, it is gratifying to know that there are precision cutters out there who will service this market. For some, colour and authenticity is king, for others it''s cut.

 

[mastercutgems]

Gailey;

I do not think you understood me correctly as I was not throwing off on anyone buying less expensive gems; the thread above was asking if any cutter had mistakenly cut a synthetic.

I would and have never implied that buying a lesser costly gem was impractical. I was just making a statement about cutting synthetics. If you read my posts you will see I am always considerate of others and what they spend on a gem within their budget. I cater to the less rich so I know very well how it is in the real world. I am one of those cutters that works for peanuts sometimes

But an elephant is one of my favorite animals

So I did not want you to think otherwise as that would be an incorrect assumption...

Those people that cut synthetics are my friends and mentors and I would not belittle or disrespect them in any fashion... nor the people that buy less costly or synthetic gems...

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 10/15/2009 2:21:02 PM
Author: Gailey
Dana, just a small point, but these are hard times for a lot of people. Not everyone can afford the gem of their dreams and will sometimes seek an alternative. In that respect, it is gratifying to know that there are precision cutters out there who will service this market. For some, colour and authenticity is king, for others it''s cut.

and it is precisely because of this that education is important.

mz

 

[Gailey]

Date: 10/15/2009 2:44:07 PM
Author: mastercutgems
Gailey;

I do not think you understood me correctly as I was not throwing off on anyone buying less expensive gems; the thread above was asking if any cutter had mistakenly cut a synthetic.

I would and have never implied that buying a lesser costly gem was impractical. I was just making a statement about cutting synthetics. If you read my posts you will see I am always considerate of others and what they spend on a gem within their budget. I cater to the less rich so I know very well how it is in the real world. I am one of those cutters that works for peanuts sometimes

But an elephant is one of my favorite animals

So I did not want you to think otherwise as that would be an incorrect assumption...

Those people that cut synthetics are my friends and mentors and I would not belittle or disrespect them in any fashion... nor the people that buy less costly or synthetic gems...

Dana, I apologise, I fear I have done you a disservice by my comments and that was not my intention. My response was hasty and I should have realised you were simply responding to the question about cutting synthetic material by accident.

I'm glad you called me on it because your further comments explain more clearly what I was trying to convey.

I wasn't seeking to offend you and I am sorry that I did. I think you grind pretty nice rocks for folks and one day I hope to be on your customer list - please charge me a premium for my rudeness

 

[Edward Bristol]

Date: 10/10/2009 8:08:44 AM
Author: morecarats
Generally good advice from Edward. :

Other dealers forego the price padding game and list their gems at the lowest prices they can, offering the same price to all buyers. It''s good to know what kind of seller you''re dealing with.

Of course I belong to this latter kind of dealer

so the do-negotiate rule does not apply to me.
You may negotiate a $6,99 amethyst on ebay but not a 20k Mogok Star Ruby.

 

[morecarats]

Date: 10/10/2009 4:36:24 PM
Author: Richard W. Wise
All,

Great suggestions, but may I suggest a good golden rule of gem buying?


''If you don''t know the product, make sure you know who you are doing business with.''

I believe this is known as the Bernard Madoff principle. For those who don''t read news, Madoff was the former chairman of the NASDAQ stock exchange and one of the most trusted money managers on Wall Street. Unfortunately he also defrauded his clients of an estimated $65 billion in the largest investment fraud in Wall Street history.

Independent gem labs, like the SEC, exist for a reason. They help keep business honest. When a product is too specialized or complicated for the average consumer to understand, the consumer looks for someone to trust. It is all too easy for that trust to be abused. There needs to be a referee who has no financial interest in the transactions that take place between the buyer and the seller. As Ronald Reagan was fond of saying, "Trust, but Verify".

 

[Edward Bristol]

Date: 10/21/2009 6:03:00 AM
Author: morecarats

Date: 10/10/2009 4:36:24 PM
Author: Richard W. Wise
All,

Great suggestions, but may I suggest a good golden rule of gem buying?


''If you don''t know the product, make sure you know who you are doing business with.''

I believe this is known as the Bernard Madoff principle. For those who don''t read news, Madoff was the former chairman of the NASDAQ stock exchange and one of the most trusted money managers on Wall Street. Unfortunately he also defrauded his clients of an estimated $65 billion in the largest investment fraud in Wall Street history.

Independent gem labs, like the SEC, exist for a reason. They help keep business honest. When a product is too specialized or complicated for the average consumer to understand, the consumer looks for someone to trust. It is all too easy for that trust to be abused. There needs to be a referee who has no financial interest in the transactions that take place between the buyer and the seller. As Ronald Reagan was fond of saying, ''Trust, but Verify''.

Morecarats,

I don''t think Richard is offering pay-backs from his sold gems by multilevel marketing through his customers.

Buying from a complicated product from a trusted trader is different from entrusting your savings to a secret product.

The first is common sense, the latter stupidity. Anyways, I didn''t think you wanted to put Richard and Bernard in one bag, did you?

 

[morecarats]

Date: 10/26/2009 4:16:18 AM
Author: Edward Bristol

Date: 10/21/2009 6:03:00 AM
Author: morecarats

Date: 10/10/2009 4:36:24 PM
Author: Richard W. Wise
All,

Great suggestions, but may I suggest a good golden rule of gem buying?


''If you don''t know the product, make sure you know who you are doing business with.''

I believe this is known as the Bernard Madoff principle. For those who don''t read news, Madoff was the former chairman of the NASDAQ stock exchange and one of the most trusted money managers on Wall Street. Unfortunately he also defrauded his clients of an estimated $65 billion in the largest investment fraud in Wall Street history.

Independent gem labs, like the SEC, exist for a reason. They help keep business honest. When a product is too specialized or complicated for the average consumer to understand, the consumer looks for someone to trust. It is all too easy for that trust to be abused. There needs to be a referee who has no financial interest in the transactions that take place between the buyer and the seller. As Ronald Reagan was fond of saying, ''Trust, but Verify''.

Morecarats,

I don''t think Richard is offering pay-backs from his sold gems by multilevel marketing through his customers.

Buying from a complicated product from a trusted trader is different from entrusting your savings to a secret product.

The first is common sense, the latter stupidity. Anyways, I didn''t think you wanted to put Richard and Bernard in one bag, did you?

My point, if it wasn''t clear, is "Trust, but verify." When someone who is selling you something that you don''t understand says "Trust me" there is always the chance that the trust can be abused. I mentioned Bernard Madoff as an example, but I could have cited Kenneth Lay of Enron or Dennis Kozlowski of Tyco. Independent gemological labs fortunately do a better job of protecting the consumer than does the the US Securities and Exchange Commission.

I''m sure Richard Wise is as honest a gem dealer as you''ll find. But I can tell you from my own experience in the gem business that gem dealers sometimes make mistakes. I consider myself very careful, but last year I had a few cases where I wasn''t careful enough. In one case we sold some yellow sapphire as beryllium diffused that was later certified as heat treated. In another case, we sold some jade as nephrite which was subsequently tested as jadeite. We now have a program for lab testing samples of every lot we buy before it goes up for sale. But there is always the possibility of mixed lots, so unless you''re having every single stone tested, there is always some risk of error.

 

[Edward Bristol]

totally agree, thats why I do certs of every stone before it goes online. If something seems unclear I have a 2nd cert somewhere else done.

 

[dancingflame]

Excellent thread, thanks!

 

[haagen_dazs]

excellent!
i did 1 and am in the process of doing 2 (my first gem stone purchase ever)
and i am trying to be careful of 3 (being addicted)

even though i am a male and i probably cannot wear all these gemstones, i just love the fantastic colours!

 

[T L]

Date: 10/27/2009 11:18:37 AM
Author: haagen_dazs
excellent!
i did 1 and am in the process of doing 2 (my first gem stone purchase ever)
and i am trying to be careful of 3 (being addicted)

even though i am a male and i probably cannot wear all these gemstones, i just love the fantastic colours!

Why can''t you wear them? Lots of men wear colored gems.

 

[haagen_dazs]

Date: 10/27/2009 11:29:15 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 10/27/2009 11:18:37 AM

Author: haagen_dazs

excellent!

i did 1 and am in the process of doing 2 (my first gem stone purchase ever)

and i am trying to be careful of 3 (being addicted)


even though i am a male and i probably cannot wear all these gemstones, i just love the fantastic colours!

Why can''t you wear them? Lots of men wear colored gems.

well i mean not like necklace and earrings
at least that wont work for me.
i will get them in my wedding ring when the time comes

 

[haagen_dazs]

i really agree with movie zombie''s post about education.
i thought there was alot to learn in diamonds.
after 2 months i think i have a decent grasp of diamond education.
however the coloured gem world is so much more complicated.

*******
In the words of Richard Wise " ''If you don''t know the product, make sure you know who you are doing business with.''

since i am a newbie and am sometimes short of time to test vendor''s reputation , i have complied a list of vendors that i came across that are often recommended with lots of photos of actual vs in real life images

These are vendors stand behind their product and higly respected yes?
That way I can just focus on browsing inventory that I know is excellent and not run the risk of dealing with shaddy vendors

http://www.finewatergems.com/ Gary Braun
http://www.precisiongem.com/ Gene
http://www.acstones.com/default.asp Barry Bridgestock
http://www.whitesgems.com/ Jeff White
http://www.swalagemtraders.com/ Swala
http://www.artcutgems.com Rick
http://www.customgemstones.com/ Dan Stair.
http://www.gemrite.com/cubecart/
http://www.concavegems.com/
http://www.rwwise.com/index.html
Ajsgems.com
http://cherrypicked.com


********
last question

in the diamond world, PS has a nice summary of the quality of grading labs
IGI and EGL are like large statewide universities. GIA is Ivy League, and AGS is like the MIT rocket-science program......
http://diamonds.pricescope.com/grading.asp

Is there something like that for the Coloured gem grading labs?

 

[DianaBanana]

Don''t forget Mr. Bristol''s site....www.wildfishgems.com/

 

[chrono]

Yes, there are “rankings” of sorts for labs as well. Obviously Gubelin in Europe and the now closed AGTA in the USA. Since AGTA is now closed, perhaps GIA might be up next followed by AGL, or they could be on equal footing. In Asia, AIGS is very reputable. I’ve also heard of Burapha but I’m not familiar enough to comment on them. I would not trust other labs.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

When buying, picture in your minds eye the stack of hundred dollar bills that you''re spending next to the gem you''re considering buying.

Only buy when the sight of the gem becomes more irresistible to you than the sight of the money.

 

[Edward Bristol]

Diana, puuh, thanks for that, I was getting a headache here

 

[Rockit]

Thank you for the interesting, forthright thread. I am grateful to hear some vendor expectations regarding business exchanges, and I wholeheartedly appreciate the candor shown by those of you who have particiated in this thread. It can be daunting when I contemplate contacting a vendor whom I don''t know, or haven''t done business with before, regarding a possible purchase. I always want to acquire a lovely stone at the best price that I can muster... yet, certainly, I don''t want to insult or annoy a vendor because my expectations regarding our transaction are not in line with his/hers. It really does help to have an idea regarding what "page" we all operate from. I imagine many people reading this, especially those new to the gemstone market, will benefit from the thread.

Rich, the stack of money image is a good one... I''ll try using it to help me save for only the very best gemstones!

 

[mousey]

Chrono- How about Tokyo Gem Labs? Would you trust them?

 

[chrono]

Date: 10/28/2009 10:37:22 AM
Author: mousey
Chrono- How about Tokyo Gem Labs? Would you trust them?

I have not heard of them but it doesn''t mean that they are good or bad. It is something that has to be researched.

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 10/27/2009 5:40:54 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
When buying, picture in your minds eye the stack of hundred dollar bills that you''re spending next to the gem you''re considering buying.

Only buy when the sight of the gem becomes more irresistible to you than the sight of the money.

actually, this is sage advice regarding any purchase!

mz

 

[mousey]

Thanks Chrono.

 

[cushioncutnut]

Great thread Indeed! Thanks for sharing! Knowledge is Power!

 

[Edward Bristol]

Date: 10/28/2009 10:37:22 AM
Author: mousey
Chrono- How about Tokyo Gem Labs? Would you trust them?

Yes, they are under Japanese management, rock solid, no non-sense.