Halloween costumes...an opinion inquiry...

parrot tulips · Sep 28, 2007

I posted in the beauty forum of Craigslist asking where I might be able to find a nicer quality geisha costume in the Bay Area. Someone essentially implied that my costume idea was racist, and asked if I was going to "don a yellow face" too (which actually made me chuckle a little, because I''m Asian). So I was wondering, what are your thoughts? Is it racist to wear a costume that''s part of a different culture if it''s not intentionally done in a mocking manner?

Aloros · Sep 28, 2007

*shrugs* I don''t see it as offensive, and I honestly don''t know why someone would find it offensive. I really think some people need to relax.

People wear Egyptian costumes all the time with no backlash.

FireGoddess · Sep 28, 2007

I think Geishas are beautiful - and I wouldn't think it would be an offensive costume?

I mean, if you were going as a Nazi or a KKK member....yeah, that would be in horribly bad taste. And even British royalty have been guilty of that (Harry

).

But a Geisha?? I don't think so.

Circe · Sep 28, 2007

... a little? At least potentially. I think that it''s on a different level than dressing as an Egyptian, or, for example, a samurai, just because geisha and "Dragon Lady" are two of the dominant stereotypes of Asian femininity ... for me, that takes it out of the category of costume and into a commentary on the intersection of race and gender. I don''t think it''s anywhere near the level of offensiveness implied by the reference to blackface ... but I think it has the potential to reinforce the existing, and, to some people, offensive, paradigm.

fleur-de-lis · Sep 28, 2007

Would wearing a bullfighter costume be offensive to those of Spanish descent?

To the anonymous person who posted his/her response to you on craigslist, all I can think is:

. I would guess anyone who would post that about a geisha outfit probably is an unhappy person in real life and is flailing about in the world, trying to make everyone else as unhappy and self-critical as they are.

I think a woman who wears a geisha costume with grace would be one of the most beautiful people in a crowd.

fleur-de-lis · Sep 28, 2007

Date: 9/28/2007 2:53:44 PM
Author: Circe
... a little? At least potentially. I think that it's on a different level than dressing as an Egyptian, or, for example, a samurai, just because geisha and 'Dragon Lady' are two of the dominant stereotypes of Asian femininity ... for me, that takes it out of the category of costume and into a commentary on the intersection of race and gender. I don't think it's anywhere near the level of offensiveness implied by the reference to blackface ... but I think it has the potential to reinforce the existing, and, to some people, offensive, paradigm.

Circe makes a very thought-provoking observation! In my opinion, though, there may be a core difference. The history behind blackface is and always been one of mockery and degradation. When one thinks of the concept of "the feminine ideal", though, there are quite a few images from a variety of cultures which come to mind: the greek goddess, with a loose dress bound alluringly by golden rope who was celebrated two millenia later in the works of Botticelli; the renaissance courtesan, with a highly embellished dress to celebrate the beauty of female, and yes, also the geisha, whose structured and luxurious perfection served as the counterpoint feminine ideal to the dirty and sometimes ugly world of men.

Though some costumes just start out as offensive (such as Circe's excellent example of blackface), there are many that are just beautiful celebrations of images from other cultures and different times. But if one were looking to be critical, one who sees xenophobia everywhere could find fault with wearing something that denotes a different culture, just like one who is an extremist militant feminist could find fault with a woman objectifying herself by wearing something sexually attractive like any one of those three on the list above.

You can't please all the people all the time, and assuming your spirit and treatment are ones of respect, you shouldn't stop living your life with joy and pursuit of beauty just because the extremist 1% are going to find fault with you.

MichelleCarmen · Sep 28, 2007

Date: 9/28/2007 12:48:20 PM
Author:parrot tulips
I posted in the beauty forum of Craigslist asking where I might be able to find a nicer quality geisha costume in the Bay Area. Someone essentially implied that my costume idea was racist, and asked if I was going to ''don a yellow face'' too (which actually made me chuckle a little, because I''m Asian). So I was wondering, what are your thoughts? Is it racist to wear a costume that''s part of a different culture if it''s not intentionally done in a mocking manner?

The racist concept would never have crossed my mind! It''s amazing what rude comments spit out to strangers behind the security of their computer screens!

A Geisha costume sounds like a wonderful idea.

DivaDiamond007 · Sep 28, 2007

I''m not Asian, but I don''t think of it as offensive. It''s a costume already! I agree that some people just need to relax and take a breath. You can''t please everybody all the time and for those who take offense at every little thing should find another (less annoying) hobby.

Jess

parrot tulips · Sep 28, 2007

Date: 9/28/2007 2:53:44 PM
Author: Circe
... a little? At least potentially. I think that it''s on a different level than dressing as an Egyptian, or, for example, a samurai, just because geisha and ''Dragon Lady'' are two of the dominant stereotypes of Asian femininity ... for me, that takes it out of the category of costume and into a commentary on the intersection of race and gender. I don''t think it''s anywhere near the level of offensiveness implied by the reference to blackface ... but I think it has the potential to reinforce the existing, and, to some people, offensive, paradigm.

Thank you for such a thoughtful response. If the person who responded to my Craigslist post had responded this way, I would have thought twice about my costume idea, rather than being offended at (what I perceived as) their sarcastic and accusational tone. The geisha idea was just something I was mulling over...not anything I was set on.

Circe · Sep 28, 2007

Hey, my pleasure - it''s a very interesting topic! I don''t think that it''s automatically disrespectful to partake of other cultures ... more a matter of attitude. I''d be fascinated if I were to run across someone who was dressed, not as a generic stereotype but more specifically as, say, Mineko Iwasaki: it''d be a great conversation starter, and, IMO, a mark of respect and homage to a fascinating historical figure.

Fleur''s examples really fascinate me because I think they underscore some of the additional challenges that women face image-wise, images that tend to be highlighted around Halloween when performativity is at a high: because we''re not the default, it seems like there''s almost always a gendered qualifier attached to the costumes/images we get to choose from, and usually a sexualized one. A few years ago, one of my students was bemoaning the fact that all of the costumes in stores that were aimed at women were of the "naughty" variety: you know, naughty nurse, sexy witch, adult Snow White, etc. It seems to tie in here, because almost all of the women-specific stereotypes, ethnic or otherwise, that I can think of have some sort of a sexual component that can be hard to shake or, alternately, to treat respectfully. Gosh, it''s fun being a girl!

P.S. - Hee. I am *totally* the feminist in question, aren''t I?

fleur-de-lis · Sep 28, 2007

Date: 9/28/2007 4:33:58 PM
Author: Circe

...Fleur''s examples really fascinate me because I think they underscore some of the additional challenges that women face image-wise, images that tend to be highlighted around Halloween when performativity is at a high: because we''re not the default, it seems like there''s almost always a gendered qualifier attached to the costumes/images we get to choose from, and usually a sexualized one. A few years ago, one of my students was bemoaning the fact that all of the costumes in stores that were aimed at women were of the ''naughty'' variety: you know, naughty nurse, sexy witch, adult Snow White, etc. It seems to tie in here, because almost all of the women-specific stereotypes, ethnic or otherwise, that I can think of have some sort of a sexual component that can be hard to shake or, alternately, to treat respectfully. Gosh, it''s fun being a girl!

P.S. - Hee. I am *totally* the feminist in question, aren''t I?

No, but if you go as Eleanor Roosevelt and people keep asking you why you dressed up as a "naughty-yet-frumpy grandma", don''t be surprised!

Circe · Sep 28, 2007

Date: 9/28/2007 4:53:07 PM
Author: fleur-de-lis

Date: 9/28/2007 4:33:58 PM

No, but if you go as Eleanor Roosevelt and people keep asking you why you dressed up as a ''naughty-yet-frumpy grandma'', don''t be surprised!

Click to expand...

Oh, that is an AWESOME idea! Now all I have to do is convince FI to grow a mustache and spend the night sitting down ....

Then again, considering that this is the guy who''s repeatedly refused to be my Flying Monkey (what can I say? I found the perfect red shoes to go as Evil Dorothy), I might have to go back to the drawing board ....

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Halloween costumes...an opinion inquiry...

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