Help finding a diamond/building an engagement ring

[kypo1411]

I had a post earlier this week asking about the large price difference between online and BM jewelers. While I had originally hoped to buy locally, I had done a lot of online research prior to going to a store and was shocked by the difference in price. I'm starting to lean toward maybe buying the diamond and/or full ring online. I am bit worried by this (maybe unrightfully so) but was assured by other posters that the people here would be able to help.

Anyway, I have a pretty good idea of what I'm looking for and was hoping to get some help/ideas from people regarding diamonds/settings. I haven't been able to get much information out of my gf but have been with her (and buying her other jewelry) for quite a long time, and have her style pretty nailed down. The goal is a solitaire pear diamond on a yellow gold ring. I was looking at a size of ~1.25 carats and would like eye clean and reasonably clear color. Most importantly, I want a cut that will give off a good shine (for as much as a pear can). The only input I have from her is that she dislikes rings that "stick up". I'm not really sure what that means totally, but she says it's not that common, so it must not include all prong settings... maybe only ones that are fully set on top of the band? I'd like to do the whole ring for ~10k, which doesn't seem possible for a diamond of that size bought locally. However, I have seen several online in the 8-9k range, which should leave enough to get the setting. I can be a bit flexible, but am don't like the idea of either paying ~2k more locally for the exact same diamonds I can find online or bringing down my standards/size to keep it within my budget.

If anyone here can/will help me out I'd be greatly appreciative. If any more information is needed I'd be happy to provide it.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Gypsy]

OK. We can definitely help.

I personally would just call BGD, Brian Gavin Diamonds and ask them to help you find a pear. Why? Brian has sourced some of the nicest pears I've seen. So he would be my first call. And they do gorgeous in house settings in yellow gold.


I think your lady is probably talking about peg head settings on top of a band.
I can also look for options for you at other vendors.

 

[Gypsy]

I think you should stick to SI1 eyeclean or better (don't limit the clarity more than that). G or better preferred. But H is okay if the stone is fantastic.

Pears are really hard to shop for.

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king. With fancies though (anything other than a round brilliant), that is a little complicated. But no other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut.

There really is no other way to determine if you have a good Pear cut is to see images of the stones, and then you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.

That's what an ASET image does. http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance Please read.
And ASET shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return That is why you won't see us recommending vendors like Blue Nile, as they do not provide images or ASET images for their diamonds. James Allen and Good Old Gold do this. So do Brian Gavin, B2C and Whiteflash and High Performance Diamonds. ERD does too, for stones they source for you.


Keep in mind that Pears are especially hard to shop for because so many have bowties. So finding a bright, well cut marquise is a herculean task at times if the stock at vendors is poor. Also color can concentrate at the tip so being conservative with the color is a good idea.


If you don't know what a bowtie is let us know.

Also you must buy the setting AFTER the Pear. Finally you don't buy pears by carat weight so much as you do by spread (dimensions) to pears at the same carat weight can have DRASTICALLY different spreads. So pay attention tothat.

So yes, let's focus on finding you a pear, then we'll worry about settings.

 

[Gypsy]

I'm not finding anything I adore.
This is the nicest pear I've found. http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5138436-1.09-carat-Pear-diamond-G-color-IF-clarity.aspx Spread is 9x6

 

[Gypsy]

Stones I like at JA. You would pick 3. Put them on hold. Then you would ask for an ASET.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.01-carat-d-color-vs2-clarity-sku-289681this is my favorite
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.09-carat-d-color-vs2-clarity-sku-296888 And so is this.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.04-carat-d-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-307202
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.08-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-sku-350426
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.01-carat-d-color-vs2-clarity-sku-325173
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.02-carat-d-color-vs1-clarity-sku-159547


Hopefully Neil will comment on these and help narrow. She's quite good with fancies with bowties and mush.

 

[drk14]

Stones I like at JA. You would pick 3. Put them on hold. Then you would ask for an ASET.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.01-carat-d-color-vs2-clarity-sku-289681this is my favorite
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.09-carat-d-color-vs2-clarity-sku-296888 And so is this.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.04-carat-d-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-307202
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.08-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-sku-350426
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.01-carat-d-color-vs2-clarity-sku-325173
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.02-carat-d-color-vs1-clarity-sku-159547


Hopefully Neil will comment on these and help narrow. She's quite good with fancies with bowties and mush.

Of these, I like 325173. Seems to be brighter than some of the others, and has good liveliness (scintillation) throughout the body.

But, I agree, wait for Niel's advice.

 

[drk14]

Gypsy, Niel -- What's your opinion on this one (if eye clean)?
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.31-carat-d-color-si1-clarity-sku-250842

Just checking if I've learned anything...

 

[Gypsy]

Gypsy, Niel -- What's your opinion on this one (if eye clean)?
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.31-carat-d-color-si1-clarity-sku-250842

Just checking if I've learned anything...

It's 9x6 so it's the same spread as the B2C stone I posted above. And I think it's a really strong performer with a nice star pattern right under the table. The reason I didn't pick that one was I was unsure if it would be eyeclean.

But you know what? You are right, it's such a strong performer... you might as well ASK the gemologist. I think it's a very nice choice. And you have learned a lot drk.

 

[kypo1411]

Wow thanks for all the replies already everyone. I actually happen to be on a weekend away with the gf so haven't had much time to look at things yet. I did manage to sneak some looks in just now after she's fallen asleep. I've think I got a chance to look at all the suggestions but it's hard to view them side by side since I'm only on my phone. One thing I did notice is that I seem to like the look of the larger tables (closer to 60%). I noticed this "look" especially in the stone posted by drk and the one posted by gypsy and selected by drk. I will continue trying to check back in this weekend but will definitely be more free during the week. I'll also be sure to check out the link you posted gypsy!

Thanks again for all the help so far!

 

[Gypsy]

Don't eliminate by the numbers. The numbers don't mean a whole heck of a lot. And stones with smaller tables when coupled with a higher crown do have a tendency toward more fire.

 

[kypo1411]

Don't eliminate by the numbers. The numbers don't mean a whole heck of a lot. And stones with smaller tables when coupled with a higher crown do have a tendency toward more fire.

Thanks for that info! Definitely wasn't trying to eliminate by numbers. It was mostly just something I noticed, that I liked how those two appeared and then that they had similar table numbers. To me some of the others appeared to be more "rounded" across the top. However these are also magnified images and maybe something like that wouldn't be noticeable at 1x. Also, as you said, it could be something more desirable. I don't have a ton of background here so I'm trying to learn on the fly!

 

[Gypsy]

You are doing fine.

Let us know which ones you prefer and we'll be able to advise you better on what we see in them.

 

[kypo1411]

Ok, I'm away from the gf until Friday now so I have a bit more freedom to browse stuff. I got a chance to look at the suggested diamonds in a bit more detail. Also, I was able to view them on my computer rather than a phone, which is a lot more helpful. I noticed the inclusions in the 1.31 carat that drk suggested and see what you mean by checking to see if it's eye clean. A couple questions about some of what you all suggested. What is meant by a high crown? Gypsy you mentioned that a small table and high crown tend to result in good fire, but none of the links list anything for crown. I assume this is because it's a pear rather than something like a round, but I wanted to get an idea of what you meant. Also, as you mentioned, it's best to shop for pears based on the spread. Obviously the diamond from b2c and the 1.31 from JA have a very similar spread, but a reasonable separation in depth, resulting in a about 0.2 carat difference. Is there a preferable depth? How do you guys quantify something as performing well? I'd be happy to look at some of the other sites that were suggested but would like to look for "good performers". Also, I noticed that most had no fluorescence but 2 had some of it. Is it recommended to avoid this or is it not a big deal? Thanks for all the help and sorry about the delay in responding.

 

[drk14]

What is meant by a high crown? Gypsy you mentioned that a small table and high crown tend to result in good fire, but none of the links list anything for crown. I assume this is because it's a pear rather than something like a round, but I wanted to get an idea of what you meant.

If you look at the diamond from the side, the crown is the sloped surface on the top half of the diamond (above the girdle). A good explanation, with diagrams, is available here:
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/anatomy-of-round-brilliant-diamond

A "high" crown means the angle of the crown surface is steep (which happens if the table sits high above the girdle; refer to the link above for definitions of 'table' and 'girdle', if you're not already familiar with these terms). For pears, and other non-round shapes, the crown angle will be different on different sides of the diamond. You can see this in the James Allen 360 views -- turn the diamond to see it in side view, and you'll see that the slope of the crown is shallower on the pointy side of the pear and steeper at the round side of the pear. Because of this, thre's no good way to report a single number for "crown angle", like you can with a round diamond (for which the crown has pretty much the same slope all the way around the stone).

Is there a preferable depth?

Asymmetric (a.k.a. "fancy" cut) diamonds, like pears, can exhibit a "bow-tie" effect if the depth is too shallow. On the other hand, a deeper stone will have less spread. In addition, a pear especially, behaves somewhat like a round brilliant (in the belly area of the diamond at least), the criteria that apply to crown and pavilion angles for round cuts are not irrelevant when considering a pear.

Some guidelines for fancy cuts are available here:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/guidance-by-parameters-initial-screening-tools.118881/
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/pear-cut-diamond

How do you guys quantify something as performing well?

Unfortunately, beyond some general guidelines, evaluating performance in fancy cuts is mostly not quantitative, but rather qualitative. That's why it's so important to see the diamond, either in a picture, or in a video (better) , or in person (best).

For some guidelines as to what to look for, see Gypsy's explanation in this thread:
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...ment-ring.203322/page-2#post-3701679#p3701679

 

[kypo1411]

It seems that some of the diamonds don't have actual images posted. I've been browsing on B2C because I liked the stone that Gypsy posted but could possibly go up in price a bit. It seems that most of the ones that I've looked at don't have an image available, so I only have the specs. Is it possible to request images or is there a way to know which stone might have images. For example, this could be a candidate, but does not have an image:

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4687815-1.32-carat-Pear-diamond-D-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=4687815&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

 

[Gypsy]

You can't know if a fancy is a contender from any listing like that.

Post your 'expanded' budget and I'll see what we can do with it for you .

 

[kypo1411]

You can't know if a fancy is a contender from any listing like that.

Post your 'expanded' budget and I'll see what we can do with it for you .

I'd like to do the ring for around 10k but could stretch a bit if something were well worth it. From what I've seen browsing around and in stores I expect the setting to be ~1k to 1.5k. So I guess I assumed 8-9k on the stone. Does this sound reasonable? Maybe there are other things to consider, like insurance (I guess I haven't looked into the cost on this). Are there other associated costs I need to consider?

 

[drk14]

I stretched your stone budget to 10k and found this interesting pear, which has only four pavilion main facets instead of 6:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.50-carat-e-color-si1-clarity-sku-145415
Unfortunately, this one is 1.50ct, which is one of the magic numbers that you'll pay a bit of a premium for. On the other hand, it has medium fluorescence, which tends to bring down the price; many PSers actively seek out fluorescent diamonds and consider it a bonus feature.

Compared to the 1.31ct D-SI1 that I posted before, this 1.50ct E-SI1 is a bit "mushier" in the head, but a bit livelier in the point region. I also like that the different faceting pattern creates more "chunky" rather than "splintery" reflections. And it has 20% more spread (projected area) than the 1.31ct stone, which is a very noticeable difference.

Again, I'm not (yet ) super-knowledgable about these cuts, so I'm throwing this out mainly as an idea, and hopefully you'll get a more definitive evaluation from one of our many resident experts.

 

[Gypsy]

REMEMBER COMPARE SPREAD NOT WEIGHT:

This one gives you nice spread at 10.5x5.5: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.24-carat-e-color-si1-clarity-sku-263597 And it's an E color. And severely under budget which means a nicer setting.

And these two that drk found for you:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.50-carat-e-color-si1-clarity-sku-145415 9.7 by 6.7
And if eyeclean: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.31-carat-d-color-si1-clarity-sku-250842

 

[Gypsy]

You can also consider one of these:
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5080347-1.41-carat-Pear-diamond-H-color-VVS1-clarity.aspx
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4983248-1.51-carat-Pear-diamond-H-color-IF-clarity.aspx

I prefer the JA stones. But these do give you more spread.

 

[drk14]

REMEMBER COMPARE SPREAD NOT WEIGHT:

This one gives you nice spread at 10.5x5.5: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.24-carat-e-color-si1-clarity-sku-263597 And it's an E color. And severely under budget which means a nicer setting.

And these two that drk found for you:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.50-carat-e-color-si1-clarity-sku-145415 9.7 by 6.7
And if eyeclean: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.31-carat-d-color-si1-clarity-sku-250842

Gypsy, that's a good find. That one also has 4 pavilion mains, I wonder if that's a more successful faceting style for pears?

Kypo1411, notice how all three of these diamonds have a very different Length-to-Width ratio, ranging from "skinny" (L/W = 1.87) to "chubby" (L/W = 1.43). This is a matter of personal preference, so you may want to think about what you like (or what you think your gf will like).

 

[Niel]

heres one i might look into

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.49-carat-e-color-si1-clarity-sku-350360

but will probably put you over budgie.

 

[Gypsy]

REMEMBER COMPARE SPREAD NOT WEIGHT:

This one gives you nice spread at 10.5x5.5: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.24-carat-e-color-si1-clarity-sku-263597 And it's an E color. And severely under budget which means a nicer setting.

I like the elongated look of this one, and it's got a lot of potential to ASET out great. And if it did ASET out it would leave you with enough of a budget to get a really lovely pave solitaire like this (but from ERD, so it's in budget):

 

[Niel]

I like this one!

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.15-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-209234

I know i know, its 1.15. But non the less.

 

[Gypsy]

I like this one!

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.15-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-209234

I know i know, its 1.15. But non the less.

Oh I like that. The spread on it is very good!
It's bigger than http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.31-carat-d-color-si1-clarity-sku-250842 Even though this one is heavier.

It's got the same length as the 1.5 carat stone and is only mm skinnier! Great find!



Okay so here are the finalists. Put these three hold and ask for an ASET:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.15-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-209234 9.7x5.7mm
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.50-carat-e-color-si1-clarity-sku-145415 9.7x 6.7
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.24-carat-e-color-si1-clarity-sku-263597 10.5x5.5



The 1.5 is over budget. So you'd just get a nice plain solitaire.
The 1.15 is nicely under budget and you can afford a lovely setting with tapered baguettes for it in platinum. Or a pave shank.
And the 1.24 gives you a huge setting budget.

 

[Gypsy]

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.15-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-209234
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.24-carat-e-color-si1-clarity-sku-263597

For these two above I would really urge you to consider one of these settings in platinum:

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/pave-and-side-stones/legera-pave-platinum-5861p
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/pave-and-side-stones/lace-platinum-5934p-1
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/pave-and-side-stones/fishtail-pave-with-straight-head-platinum-5354p
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/pave-and-side-stones/sleek-micro-pave-with-milgrain-platinum-5544p
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/pave-and-side-stones/4-prong-sleek-micro-pave-platinum-5472p


BGD has fantastic quality and can make any of them for a pear center.

 

[drk14]

Okay so here are the finalists. Put these three hold and ask for an ASET:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.15-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-209234 9.7x5.7mm
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.50-carat-e-color-si1-clarity-sku-145415 9.7x 6.7
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.24-carat-e-color-si1-clarity-sku-263597 10.5x5.5

...unless OP has a preference for the lower L/W ratios, in which case swap the 1.24ct-E-SI1 for:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.31-carat-d-color-si1-clarity-sku-250842



I like Niel's pick... very interesting, with the culet closer to the center. It's almost like an oval with a pointy side.

 

[Niel]

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.15-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-209234
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.24-carat-e-color-si1-clarity-sku-263597

For these two above I would really urge you to consider one of these settings in platinum:

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/pave-and-side-stones/legera-pave-platinum-5861p
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/pave-and-side-stones/lace-platinum-5934p-1
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/pave-and-side-stones/fishtail-pave-with-straight-head-platinum-5354p
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/pave-and-side-stones/sleek-micro-pave-with-milgrain-platinum-5544p
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/pave-and-side-stones/4-prong-sleek-micro-pave-platinum-5472p


BGD has fantastic quality and can make any of them for a pear center.

In the OP he said he wanted yellow gold, has that changed? (i admit i could have easily missed that part )

 

[Gypsy]

OK. SO I forgot the yellow gold thing. No Problem. That just means cost savings. Any of those can be made in yellow gold.


And drk, yes, he could swap with that one. But only if that one is eyeclean, so I'd check that BEFORE asking for an ASET. Because if it isn't eyeclean, then there's no point in getting an ASET for it.

 

[Niel]

I always like this setting, if the 1.15 comes back best, Id put it in this, myself. Ask JA if they have a referral or "preferred customer discount" try and use those words. They don't have a pricescope discount anymore, but still worth trying to get a discount.


http://www.ritani.com/engagement-rings/diamond-micropave-band-engagement-ring-in-18kt-yellow-gold/5306

https://www.pricescope.com/blog/jewel-week-ritani-engagement-ring