My daughter is switching political party after she ..

[packrat]

Far as I know there is no time limit. Not when you have kids...and they can be on it and turn around and have a kid at 14 and stay on it when they're 18...20...25..30...b/c they have a kid..and that kid can have a kid at 14 and be on it..Or have a kid at 19 and have to go on it. The incentive is: I get free medical care, free dental care, it's free for my kids, I get free groceries, I have a place to live that I don't have to pay for, I can go to school for free, I get free child care and I don't have to do anything for it. Or if I do, it's minimal. Like...min-i-mal. Sometimes those on Title 19/Medicaid/whatever each state calls it, have to pay a small amount.

There is no incentive to be *off* and to be gainfully employed. Your benefits decrease as you work and bring home an income. So..wait, now instead of having 100% of my life paid for..you mean if I work and bring home let's say $100/week, my benefits will go down $100/week? What do I do then? (and that's not exact, I'm making up numbers)

I could work full time, 40 hours a week and bring home $250, but then my benefits are cut to nothing b/c I don't qualify as a gainfully employed individual and I don't get any extra help to make up for it? That's not a fun choice. B/c then you have to do what the rest of us do-maybe work over time, work weekends, work a couple extra shifts, in order to make sure your bills are paid. It's not an all or nothing thing like you get 100% benefits and don't work but if you get a job and work one hour a week suddenly your benefits are eliminated. I'm not sure exactly how the levels are set up, but there are some levels. You *do* have to put forth some effort, much the same as the rest of us, to make up the difference.

It seems to be almost like a..drug, in a way.

ETA and you can get an education while on it and have it paid for. I've told the story before, but when I wanted to go back to school and looked into loans/funding etc, when the lady was helping me fill out the paperwork, what it basically boiled down to, was, in my job, I made "too much money" b/c I was not an unmarried single mother, so she NO LIE looked me right in the eye and told me I had two choices if I wanted help. "Have a baby and don't marry the father" or "quit your job, move back home and let your parents support you for six months" OR I could pay for it myself/take out loans. I burst out laughing, thinking she was joking. Nope. She apologized and said "I'm sorry honey, I applaud you trying to do something for yourself, but the system isn't set up to help you right now." After I told JD what she said and we had a chuckle-I went home and cried, and my parents hit the roof. And then I marched right back in to the school and asked for help filling out loan forms and I paid for classes myself.

 

[ruby59]

We started out with good intentions, but we have created classification of people who expect {and get} taken care of cradle to the grave. While the rest of us schmucks get up each morning and slog off to work.
_________________________________________________________________

Yes, to get people who have suffered a tragedy back on their feet. But back then people had a work ethic, pride, and wanted to become self sufficient as soon as they could.

Now it has become a generational way of life in some families, creating a a classification of people who live by gaming the system. And they have no incentive to change.

And to those who say it is none of our business. When you are living off my tax dollars then it is my business.

As for food stamps, Schools serve children breakfast, and lunch. And more schools are serving them dinner as well. And in the summer, most cities have camps that do this. So are we feeding their lazy, able bodied parents?

 

[OreoRosies86]

Yes, no one with work ethic and 60 hour work weeks ever lived below the poverty line

This in a nutshell is why I will never feel totally comfortable here.

 

[ruby59]

Yes, no one with work ethic and 60 hour work weeks ever lived below the poverty line

This in a nutshell is why I will never feel totally comfortable here.
__________________________________________________________

I am sorry. I did not mean to post anything that might make you feel uncomfortable. I understand that some jobs do not pay a living wage. And I agree that that needs to be addressed.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Appreciate that. I could go into the whole spiel about being homeless for two months and how non human it makes you feel. Contemplating suicide when life gets so bad you can't see a way out, working crappy dead end miserable jobs and watching complete dumbasses get a college education courtesy of mom and dad so they can get stoned and watch Netflix all day when you never touched drugs. And then you do start to think about self medicating because shit at that point you just need to dull the fact that your day to day reality is not worth waking up for. Deciding whether you want food or shampoo. Not having a winter coat. But it truly will not change anything or anyone's mind about the subject. Yes there is abuse, that is unfortunate. If you think people grow up on a remotely even playing field you're living in a fantasy.

 

[monarch64]

Appreciate that. I could go into the whole spiel about being homeless for two months and how non human it makes you feel. Contemplating suicide when life gets so bad you can't see a way out, working crappy dead end miserable jobs and watching complete dumbasses get a college education courtesy of mom and dad so they can get stoned and watch Netflix all day when you never touched drugs. And then you do start to think about self medicating because shit at that point you just need to dull the fact that your day to day reality is not worth waking up for. Deciding whether you want food or shampoo. Not having a winter coat. But it truly will not change anything or anyone's mind about the subject. Yes there is abuse, that is unfortunate. If you think people grow up on a remotely even playing field you're living in a fantasy.

I spent a year working for a non-profit that helped low-income and at-risk women get appropriate apparel for interviews and jobs. Any person who is comfortable gloating or watchdogging people in line in front of them at the store should really spend some time volunteering in an establishment people have to go to to get help. I learned a lot about people and a lot about myself. Seeing the whole chain of things from the top down, or bottom up, was eye-opening. Donors who came in with thousands of dollars' worth of high-end apparel (sold at low prices to keep the store running and fund the program) dripping in diamonds. Middle-class shoppers just looking for a great deal. Retired or student volunteers. And of course the clients themselves who brought in vouchers from various agencies so they could get a suit to interview in. Those women ranged from every walk of life. Seeing how they all interacted was amazing. Certainly no one begrudged the other a darn thing.

I will say that what made the staff angry was when the clients' boyfriends would tag along and sit there critiquing all the outfits the woman tried on, instead of oh, maybe working or at least being out looking for work. It was pretty obvious who was trying to contribute to society and who was the slacker in those situations.

 

[OreoRosies86]

That fall, before it was discovered that the soles of both my shoes were worn clear through, I still went to Sunday school. And one time the Sunday-school superintendent made a speech to all the classes. He said that these were hard times, and that many poor children weren't getting enough to eat. It was the first time that I had heard about it. He asked everybody to bring some food for the poor children next Sunday. I felt very sorry for the poor children.

Also, little envelopes were distributed to all the classes. Each little boy and girl was to bring money for the poor, next Sunday. The pretty Sunday-school teacher explained that we were to write our names, or have our parents write them, up in the left-hand corner of the little envelopes. ... I told my mother all about it when I came home. And my mother gave me, the next Sunday, a small bag of potatoes to carry to Sunday school. I supposed the poor children's mothers would make potato soup out of them. ... Potato soup was good. My father, who was quite a joker, would always say, as if he were surprised, "Ah! I see we have some nourishing potato soup today!" It was so good that we had it every day. My father was at home all day long and every day, now; and I liked that. I had my parents all to myself, too; the others were away. My oldest brother was in Quincy, and memory does not reveal where the others were: perhaps with relatives in the country.

Taking my small bag of potatoes to Sunday school, I looked around for the poor children; I was disappointed not to see them. I had heard about poor children in stories. But I was told just to put my contribution with the others on the big table in the side room.

I had brought with me the little yellow envelope, with some money in it for the poor children. My mother had put the money in it and sealed it up. She wouldn't tell me how much money she had put in it, but it felt like several dimes. Only she wouldn't let me write my name on the envelope. I had learned to write my name, and I was proud of being able to do it. But my mother said firmly, no, I must not write my name on the envelope; she didn't tell me why. On the way to Sunday school I had pressed the envelope against the coins until I could tell what they were; they weren't dimes but pennies.

When I handed in my envelope, my Sunday school teacher noticed that my name wasn't on it, and she gave me a pencil; I could write my own name, she said. So I did. But I was confused because my mother had said not to; and when I came home, I confessed what I had done. She looked distressed. "I told you not to!" she said. But she didn't explain why. ...

I didn't go back to school that fall. My mother said it was because I was sick. I did have a cold the week that school opened; I had been playing in the gutters and had got my feet wet, because there were holes in my shoes. My father cut insoles out of cardboard, and I wore those in my shoes. As long as I had to stay in the house anyway, they were all right.

I stayed cooped up in the house, without any companionship. We didn't take a Sunday paper any more, and though I did not read small print, I could see the Santa Clauses and holly wreaths in the advertisements.
There was a calendar in the kitchen. The red days were Sundays and holidays; and that red was Christmas. I knew just when Christmas was going to be.

But there was something queer! My father and mother didn't say a word about Christmas. And once when I spoke of it, there was a strange, embarrassed silence; so I didn't say anything more about it. But I wondered, and was troubled. Why didn't they say anything about it? Was what I had said I wanted too expensive?

I wasn't arrogant and talkative now. I was silent and frightened. What was the matter? Why didn't my father and mother say anything about Christmas? As the day approached, my chest grew tighter with anxiety.

Now it was the day before Christmas. I couldn't be mistaken. But not a word about it from my father and mother. I waited in painful bewilderment all day. I had supper with them, and was allowed to sit up for an hour. I was waiting for them to say something. "It's time for you to go to bed," my mother said gently. I had to say something.

"This is Christmas Eve, isn't it?" I asked, as if I didn't know.

My father and mother looked at one another. Then my mother looked away. Her face was pale and stony. My father cleared his throat, and his face took on a joking look. He pretended he hadn't known it was Christmas Eve, because he hadn't been reading the papers. He said he would go downtown and find out.

My mother got up and walked out of the room. I didn't want my father to have to keep on being funny about it, so I got up and went to bed. I went by myself without having a light. I undressed in the dark and crawled into bed.

I was numb. As if I had been hit by something. It was hard to breathe. I ached all through. I was stunned — with finding out the truth.

My body knew before my mind quite did. In a minute, when I could think, my mind would know. And as the pain in my body ebbed, the pain in my mind began. I knew. I couldn't put it into words yet. But I knew why I had taken only a little bag of potatoes to Sunday school that fall. I knew why there had been only pennies in my little yellow envelope. I knew why I hadn't gone to school that fall — why I hadn't any new shoes — why we had been living on potato soup all winter. All these things, and others, many others fitted themselves together in my mind, and meant something.

Then the words came into my mind and I whispered them into the darkness.

"We're poor!"

That was it. I was one of those poor children I had been sorry for, when I heard about them in Sunday school. My mother hadn't told me. My father was out of work, and we hadn't any money. That was why there wasn't going to be any Christmas at our house.

"We're poor." There in bed in the dark, I whispered it over and over to myself. I was making myself get used to it.

It wasn't so bad, now that I knew, I just hadn't known! I had thought all sorts of foolish things: that I was going to Ann Arbor — going to be a lawyer — going to make speeches in the Square, going to be President. Now I know better.

I had wanted (something) for Christmas, I didn't want it, now. I didn't want anything.

I lay there in the dark, feeling the cold emotion of renunciation. (The tendrils of desire unfold their clasp on the outer world of objects, withdraw, shrivel up. Wishes shrivel up, turn black, die. It is like that.)

It hurt. But nothing would ever hurt again. I would never let myself want anything again.

I lay there stretched out straight and stiff in the dark, my fists clenched hard upon Nothing...

In the morning it had been like a nightmare that is not clearly remembered — that one wishes to forget. Though I hadn't hung up any stocking there was one hanging at the foot of my bed. A bag of popcorn, and a lead pencil, for me. They had done the best they could, now they realized that I knew about Christmas. But they needn't have thought they had to. I didn't want anything.

 

[missy]

Elliot, your story brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for sharing such a moving portrait with us. It is clear that love was plentiful though money was not.

 

[chrono]

Elliot,
Your story is beautifully written and brought tears to my eyes too. It shows that it is so easy for those with money to judge those that need it. You've lived a difficult life growing up, but it was with honesty and determination. You are a strong person.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Wish I could take credit, author got cut off at the end of the page. This is one of my very favorite short stories by Floyd Dell and is the best portrait of what it is like to grow up in poverty that I have seen.

 

[missy]

Wish I could take credit, author got cut off at the end of the page. This is one of my very favorite short stories by Floyd Dell and is the best portrait of what it is like to grow up in poverty that I have seen.

Elliot, thanks for sharing the author. I thought it was a short story but couldn't remember for sure! Such a moving portrait and really shows that you just don't know how something feels until you have experienced it for yourself IMO. You can only guess.

 

[chrono]

Wish I could take credit, author got cut off at the end of the page. This is one of my very favorite short stories by Floyd Dell and is the best portrait of what it is like to grow up in poverty that I have seen.

Oh, okay, but as Missy wrote, it gives us a better understanding of what poverty feels like.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

That short story is wonderful. I was going to say we went to the same Sunday school. I remember those envelopes.
Elliot, the working poor is one of the biggest problems we have and I hope you are availing yourself of all the Gov't programs you might qualify for. No matter how you interpret posters comments, including mine, know that these programs are there for you if you need them and qualify for them. Use them as additional support

There are some of us who have gone thru difficult times, but don't want to share too much on here, so don't think you are alone, and I commend you for sticking around without disliking us too much. Remind us every now and then you are here, and let us hear you.

Thanks,

Annette

 

[Slickk]

Elliott, what moving prose. Thank you for sharing. Reminds me of "Not Poor, Just Broke," by the amazingly eloquent Dick Gregory. We read his story with our middle school drew. Worth a read...
http://www.angelfire.com/tn/dtrang/notpoorjustbroke.html

 

[Dancing Fire]

Abalone anyone???..These are delicious..

 

[stracci2000]

Abalone anyone???..These are delicious..

Haha, DF!!
I was in the Asian grocery store today, and I looked all over for canned abalone, but never did see any.
I never doubted you!

It must be fabulous, and worth every penny, 'cause the chef gives the "thumb's up!"

 

[Dancing Fire]

Abalone anyone???..These are delicious..

Haha, DF!!
I was in the Asian grocery store today, and I looked all over for canned abalone, but never did see any.
I never doubted you!

It must be fabulous, and worth every penny, 'cause the chef gives the "thumb's up!"

b/c he is the owner... His brand is well known for tasty abalone b/c of its secret sauce... It was $65 last yr and now it cost $78...

 

[House Cat]

The very idea of canned fish repulses me. Old fish, swimming in its own juices, in a metal can.... and there is a $78 version of this gastrointestinal nightmare? No, no, no, no.

 

[Loves Vintage]

LovesVintage, what you mentioned about grocery stores offering super cheap junk food reminded me of this documentary:

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/soul-food-junkies/

It highlights the issue of cultural eating habits, talks about access to healthy foods, and the lack of education about what is or is not healthy food.

Just wanted to come back to say thanks for posting this, Monarch. I will check it out.

 

[partgypsy]

Probably tmi, my family members that I spoke of earlier are eligible for food assistance. No one in my family has ever been on food assistance (or disability or even unemployment). My sister fell, broke her ribs. She worked contract work and so was out of work for 4 weeks because she has to lift things for her job. During the time she was out her supervisor changed and she cannot get in touch with anyone to get reinstated. She is applying for other jobs but for now is out of work. My mother does not want to apply for food assistance as she is under the belief if/when she sells her house they will take back any money given for food assistance? (I don't think that's true). And my sister refuses. She says one of her few pleasures in life is buying food with her own money, and doesn't want any dirty looks from people using food assistance. Her comment reminded me of this thread! Too bad you can't eat pride.

My mother then went to a food bank. She went at the beginning of the window. The place was packed. After waiting for half an hour the food bank person made an announcement the food bank was closed, that they all needed to leave. So she left, feeling humiliated. When she was leaving a few people were rummaging through a box full of food next the building, not sure if they had gotten there earlier or discovered the box left unattended.

My mother is a lovely nice person, highly educated but whom is in a dysfunctional relationship with my brother which has essentially ruined her life. As she is in her 70's I am not expecting things to change, but all the things she has done in sacrifice for my brother are coming home to roost now that she can't work and bring in more income. My sister moved in with them 4, 5 years ago and her situation has gone from middling, bad to worse. My Mom and sister could have definitely made better decisions. But don't worry folks, they are suffering for those decisions!

In the same way, late in life my father had a financial disaster. He was too proud to declare bankruptcy and so sold everything (his going business, residence, emptied his accounts) to pay the money back and was still left with 10's of thousands in debt. Despite working more than 60 hours a week for 50+ years, many of those years being considered a "success story" now lives in a small efficiency apartment living on ssn and a small part time job.

If you have objections with the way food assistance is being run, or see an example of what you think is fraud, report it to the agency. If people need help, there is no need to shame them as well.

 

[ruby59]

If you have objections with the way food assistance is being run, or see an example of what you think is fraud, report it to the agency. If people need help, there is no need to shame them as well.
______________________________________________________

I just want to be clear, that I was not referring to the elderly. They put in their time and deserve all the help they may need in their golden years.

And while I realize that not all handicaps are obvious, I was referring to able bodied people -well dressed, coiffed, nice jewelry , Smart phone - etc. who pull out their SNAP card.

 

[partgypsy]

If you have objections with the way food assistance is being run, or see an example of what you think is fraud, report it to the agency. If people need help, there is no need to shame them as well.
______________________________________________________

I just want to be clear, that I was not referring to the elderly. They put in their time and deserve all the help they may need in their golden years.

And while I realize that not all handicaps are obvious, I was referring to able bodied people -well dressed, coiffed, nice jewelry , Smart phone - etc. who pull out their SNAP card.

I don't know what you consider "nice" and what you consider 'too nice". Again, many people who qualify for assistance actually work and hence are able-bodied. My sister (except for the last few weeks) since she does demos she needs to be nicely attired and present well. The jewelry could be from a more prosperous time, family jewelry, or costume. Smart phones cost all of $80 and most people need them for their jobs. You also do not know if the person using the snap card is part of a household where there are elderly, other dependents that she is buying for a household. My sister has had periods of depression. Getting ready to go out, looking nice is part of a process for her that makes her feel more normal and more well. She dyes and does her own hair, does not get manicures, and even makes some of her own clothes. I guess what you are saying, if she ends up using snap cards, she will be judged either way. She will look bad and "people of walmart", and buying bad crappy food, or she will look too "rich" or buying food that she shouldn't be allowed to and therefore doesn't need the help, that anyone receiving any assistance should not have any shred of self respect or dignity allowed. I'm just saying yeah, there is going to be a percent of people defrauding the system, but you don't know with any particular individual, what their situation is. You are making a judgment based on incomplete information.

 

[ruby59]

You have a lot of "ifs" in there. We all know there are exceptions. And there are also a whole lot of people gaming the system. It is they that I am referring to.

Edited to add: People with assets - sell them. When my mother was spending down before she could qualify for medicaid, we used every bit of her money and sold all of her jewelry before applying. I would have loved to keep the pieces but thought it wrong to apply for money for her until I absolutely had to.

All I can say is my husband and I are getting to that age where we would like to think about retiring. But we cannot, not yet, especially since I have a whole lot of preexisting conditions and we need the medical coverage. Many days I do not feel well, but have to get up and go to work. So you can understand why I am really not interested in paying for those who come up with whole lot of excuses why they cannot do the same.

 

[partgypsy]

They went through an application and process to receive snap assistance. I don't know all the details, but someone, in some agency, felt that they qualified. They went through the process. Reports say, that fraud levels are low. And I can imagine they are because there is alot of need out there.
And all you are doing is second-guessing that process based on someone's superficial appearance. Like you said, many people have disabilities that are not visible. And those who are visibly handicapped, not able to drive, are obviously not the person who will be redeeming the snap card, but the more able-bodied of the household.

All I am saying is that I am not all knowing. I do my day job and let the police and other law enforcement agencies do theirs. Perhaps Snap should hand out hairshirts that must be worn while the food assistance is being redeemed, so we can better able see who is "worthy" to use our welfare and those who are not.

 

[ruby59]

My husband works for our home state. He audits these agencies to make sure money is going where it is supposed to.

He can only talk to me in general terms, but from what he sees, the fraud level in our state is extremely high.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

The basic premise of this thread is "if you receive government assistance, the general public has a right to control and judge your purchases." So, let's apply this rule to all cases.

If you get tax credits for your mortgage, we all have the right to know if your house is not too big, too luxurious or too over priced.

If your children go to a public school, the general public has the right to know if they are using their schooling properly. Therefore, all grades should be made public and proper measures taken if a child is just goofing off (spending our tax dollars unwisely).

Ditto for anyone receiving government backed student loans or scholarships. We should also restrict those to "good" degrees and not allow subsidies to be wasted on frivolous degrees like art, social sciences or creative writing.

Do married people get tax credits? Let's make sure all marriages are legit, that the marriage is being properly managed and that it fulfills whatever roles it is supposed to fill in order to be beneficial to society. If there is a tax penalty for married couples (sorry, I don't know the US tax code), then all singles should be be actively dating in order to end their bachelorhood and an approved list of suitable suitors given, so they won't fool around with our money and date bad boys.

Did you deduct any medical expenses? Here is your list of mandatory health measures to be sure you don't need any care that isn't strictly necessary. And did you get a deduction for stolen property? Prove that you had adequate security measures!

I could go on and on, getting more and more creative and over the top with my examples. I doubt any of us would feel comfortable with public scrutiny of our child's education, our health expenses and other life choices. Since a tax deduction is as much a government subsidy as a food program, why should one be open to public judgement and not others?