When enough is enough - mental illness

[House Cat]

The doctor at the hospital was working to get my son into a live in rehab center. During that time, my son sobered up and walked out. He decided he just needed therapy "and that his family will help him.". In other words, his addiction took over and he needed to drink.

Feeling sad. I really thought he was going to get help. I am feeling very concerned about his suicidal feelings. This boy is very volatile. Even if he makes a contract wit someone, and he has, I don't trust he will keep it.

 

[Queenie60]

I'm so sorry Housecat. Have you thought about doing an intervention? We did that many years ago with a family member and she did go to rehab however she's still drinking but it took her out of the self destructive phase. Just a thought

 

[Gem Queen]

Wow, you guys! I am so sorry.
Here I go again, but I work in court. I have worked in mental health for many many writs and reece hearings. It is very tragic and breaks my heart. It is a very difficult place to be. There is just not enough resources to help these people.
I have a very dear friend. Her brother and his wife couldn't have children, so they had decided to foster and adopt a little girl born with drug dependency and I believe fetal alcohol syndrome. She was the fifth child, and there were more after her that her mother had, to be adopted out.
Right after the couple adopted her. They came into court in front of the judge and made it final. It is one of the wonderful things we do get to do at my courthouse. She had now been diagnosed as a sociopath and I believe some personality disorder.
The couple had split up over the issue. They got back together. She is a handful. They are actually afraid of her and they are afraid to sleep for fear that she might kill them in their sleep. She is not even a teenager yet. I would be terrified to adopt a baby with issues like this.
I don't know what the best thing is. Unfortunately, they can't return her, so to speak, because they finalized it. It's just not the same as an animal that is vicious and you're worried of the animal attacking someone, so you do what you have to do. Please don't take that the wrong way. I am just sort of thinking out loud.
they say "God never gives you more than you can handle." What do you really think?

 

[House Cat]

I'm so sorry Housecat. Have you thought about doing an intervention? We did that many years ago with a family member and she did go to rehab however she's still drinking but it took her out of the self destructive phase. Just a thought

I was *just* thinking about it. I would need to find an intervention counselor first. And talk to my husband.... I keep having this vision of calling him and telling him how much I love him. But I have walked the "I love you road" with addicts and it always seems to hurt.

Queenie, How is it going? I wanted to tell you that breathing room helped us a lot with our son. It gave us a chance to heal. When our brain circuits weren't firing a mile a minute for every crisis under the sun, we realized that we were much more effective. It feels ironic to say now, but to be honest, even now we are much more centered. We know he can't hurt the peaceful home we have created.

I also wanted to try and calm your worries a bit about the cocaine or narcotics. I can't say 100% that he isn't doing them but it is very, very common for an unmedicated or improperly medicated person with bipolar disorder who is manic to stay up for days at a time. Actually the less sleep they get, the less sleep they need. Lack of sleep really perpetuates the mood state. I am sorry that he is blaming you guys for everything. That really has to hurt, considering how dedicated you are. Your son is so lucky.

 

[House Cat]

House Cat- Thank you, thank you, thank you!

My husband was just diagnosed with ptsd, and bipolar disorder, just last week, after 3 years of unstable behavior on antidepressants. Our marriage has been hell for me, and everything you shared has reflected dh's struggle.

I truly appreciate your openess, as it is helping me understand some of what my husband is going through. I also can start to let go of some of the hurtful things he has said, while in the grips of pyschosis, due to your insights! Again, thank you.

To all the moms or anyone else here who loves someone with MI, you have my deepest respect and lots of love is being sent your way.

Paz, I'm so sorry that you are living with this. I hope that you can let go a little...psychosis is literally a break from reality, it is also a state of emergency. If your husband is actually psychotic, you need to contact his psychiatrist right away and let his doctor determine what needs to happen next.

Also, having bipolar disorder doesn't give me a free ride to abuse my husband. I consider being married an honor and a privilege. I am not entitled to anything. My husband and I have an agreement that I am to be 100% med compliant, that I work my butt off in therapy, stay vigilant about my lifestyle, and that I call my medical team if I feel anything going on, rather than "feed" the mood state. What I mean by that is, if I am feeling a little down, I can feed that by staying in the bed for two or three days and making it a full blown depression. Heck, I can bring on a full blown depression by being too lazy. Also, if I am feeling a bit amped, I need to call the doctor right away, rather than eating a ton of sugar, throwing on death metal music, driving really fast, and loving the adrenaline and not really sleeping that night. (I don't really do this anymore.)

So, an agreement, to do all that I can. Hopefully, you can do this with your husband too at some point, when he is out of the woods.

I have certain expectations of my husband too. They are along the lines of remaining calm, which is pretty much his personality and staying calm when I begin to be OCD paranoid and need to talk to him about all of my safety issues. He used to get exasperated when I feel unsafe about perceived threats. He's used to it now.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

The doctor at the hospital was working to get my son into a live in rehab center. During that time, my son sobered up and walked out. He decided he just needed therapy "and that his family will help him.". In other words, his addiction took over and he needed to drink.

Feeling sad. I really thought he was going to get help. I am feeling very concerned about his suicidal feelings. This boy is very volatile. Even if he makes a contract wit someone, and he has, I don't trust he will keep it.

Interventions are very tricky. Hospitals cannot keep someone or force them into treatment unless they are involuntary. Once county is involved, treatment can be court mandated and enforced. Your other choice would be to file a "3 party petition."

 

[Queenie60]

I'm so sorry Housecat. Have you thought about doing an intervention? We did that many years ago with a family member and she did go to rehab however she's still drinking but it took her out of the self destructive phase. Just a thought

I was *just* thinking about it. I would need to find an intervention counselor first. And talk to my husband.... I keep having this vision of calling him and telling him how much I love him. But I have walked the "I love you road" with addicts and it always seems to hurt.

Queenie, How is it going? I wanted to tell you that breathing room helped us a lot with our son. It gave us a chance to heal. When our brain circuits weren't firing a mile a minute for every crisis under the sun, we realized that we were much more effective. It feels ironic to say now, but to be honest, even now we are much more centered. We know he can't hurt the peaceful home we have created.

I also wanted to try and calm your worries a bit about the cocaine or narcotics. I can't say 100% that he isn't doing them but it is very, very common for an unmedicated or improperly medicated person with bipolar disorder who is manic to stay up for days at a time. Actually the less sleep they get, the less sleep they need. Lack of sleep really perpetuates the mood state. I am sorry that he is blaming you guys for everything. That really has to hurt, considering how dedicated you are. Your son is so lucky.

Things are going just ok for now. He won't speak to us and walks around the house with a scowl on his face. I'm not up for trying to have a relationship with him right now as the vulgar things he has said to me haven't diluted as of yet. I understand that it's the mental illness but how many awful names can you allow someone to call you without it having an affect on your feelings? I would never repeat the names he calls me. I just don't like him - NOT AT ALL. We are staying out of his way with the knowledge that the apartment becomes available on February 15 for him to move in. We are so lucky to have a place to put him where he will be safe. We live in Silicon Valley and apartment living isn't cheap! I'm staying out of his way and taking it day by day and the fact that I'm not engaging with him does not give him anything to rant and rave about. For instance, I knew that he wasn't working today so I left the house and ran errands for the day and then went on a very long walk with my two little doggies! Very therapeutic to walk and be with my pets. I'm praying that we can keep the peace until he moves out - I'm leaving it to my husband to break the news to him as he will do it in an unemotional way. Thank you Housecat - I appreciate all of your great advise. Take care and I will pray that your stepson gets the help that he needs. This very complicated mental illness stuff can take a toll on anyone. Keep your chin up

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Wow, you guys! I am so sorry.
Here I go again, but I work in court. I have worked in mental health for many many writs and reece hearings. It is very tragic and breaks my heart. It is a very difficult place to be. There is just not enough resources to help these people.
I have a very dear friend. Her brother and his wife couldn't have children, so they had decided to foster and adopt a little girl born with drug dependency and I believe fetal alcohol syndrome. She was the fifth child, and there were more after her that her mother had, to be adopted out.
Right after the couple adopted her. They came into court in front of the judge and made it final. It is one of the wonderful things we do get to do at my courthouse. She had now been diagnosed as a sociopath and I believe some personality disorder.
The couple had split up over the issue. They got back together. She is a handful. They are actually afraid of her and they are afraid to sleep for fear that she might kill them in their sleep. She is not even a teenager yet. I would be terrified to adopt a baby with issues like this.
I don't know what the best thing is. Unfortunately, they can't return her, so to speak, because they finalized it. It's just not the same as an animal that is vicious and you're worried of the animal attacking someone, so you do what you have to do. Please don't take that the wrong way. I am just sort of thinking out loud.
they say "God never gives you more than you can handle." What do you really think?

Goodness, that is a horrible situation. I was JUST reading a blog this week about adoptive and foster families living nightmares. And some were this exact situation where they thought adopting a little baby would be safe, but it turned out horribly. When there is a potentially mentally ill birthmother on drugs and alcohol, the baby has a LOT of possibilities for damage. It is a very sad thing, but love does not always overcome heredity or damage done by substance abuse. There is such a thing dissolution of an adoption. They certainly can do something about it. Outsiders may not understand it, but most here would understand it. There would be no question if I felt my other children were in danger. And really, many of us have had to get our biological kids out for a time to regain our own peace of mind. You will see no judgement from me toward someone who just can't do it anymore and fears for their safety.

Google adoption dissolution and share with them. One page said:

"The term dissolution is used to describe an adoption that ends after it is legally finalized, resulting in the child's return to (or entry into) foster care or placement with new adoptive parents.

The frequency and accuracy of adoption dissolution rates is harder to evaluated than adoption disruptions. It appears that adoption dissolutions occur somewhere between 1%- 10% with the rate being at the higher end in adoptions that have involved special needs children and children from a state's foster care system. Three factors contributing to these higher rates are the emotional and physical demands that these children place on the family, the lack of information about where and how to find needed services, and the cost of services."

 

[kmarla]

Sorry I didn't respond to any posts yesterday. Our daughter texted and is coming tomorrow for all the rest of her things. I did 10 loads of laundry for her all day, and then my husband, other daughter and I spent the night packing up all the rest. It's not how I ever imagined her becoming independent, but I'm feeling just a tiny bit of relief that this will soon be over (moving out process). Of course there's still many other things to worry about.

Diamondseeker and AGBF, I smiled at the pictures. I don't have a silverware collection, but the rest looks very familiar. I'll try to post a picture soon.

Queenie60, I'm glad for you that you have an apartment lined up soon for your son. I'm very sorry that in the meantime you have to walk on eggshells. Being right in the middle of it, I know how distressing it all is. In the short term you're just trying to keep everyone safe, and take care of practical issues. Afterwards is probably when all the emotions will hit. No matter what, we love our children!

Housecat, I'm so sorry to hear about the new challenges with your stepson. It is so painful to see someone you care about so much make such poor decisions and be powerless to help them. Thank you again for sharing your experience. I really like the agreement you have with your husband. We have tried that with our daughter but we haven't had as much success. This is probably because of the other challenges she has as well, but we'll never give up hope. We did insist that a condition of living with us again (after the last time she ran away in 2014) was that she be compliant with her meds, and for the past year she took her meds in front of me, no questions asked. Of course that's all out the window now.

Gem Queen, It's impossible to understand the challenges of parenting a child with severe physical, developmental, or psychiatric challenges unless you experience it first hand. So many times outsiders make judgements that, rather than help, just create more stress. Add to that the difficulty in accessing timely and appropriate support and I'm not surprised that you see these cases in court.Love just isn't enough sometimes. Right now I take credit that despite all the challenges we've dealt with we were able to get our daughter to age 24 mostly in one piece. The rest is now up to her. We'll still be there on the sidelines if she lets us.

I'm sorry if I've missed anyone else. My brain is feeling a bit fuzzy right now.

 

[kmarla]

Every day brings a new surprise I went online to check my bank accounts a few minutes ago and the joint account I shared with my daughter has been closed. I just called my bank and learned that any one party on a shared account can close the account at any time. They don't need the other signatories consent. This applies to any checking account. The only case where consent/notification is required is a credit card. Apparently this is standard banking policy, not just my bank.
Maybe it's a blessing. If I can't see it I have less to worry about.

 

[december-fire]

Every day brings a new surprise I went online to check my bank accounts a few minutes ago and the joint account I shared with my daughter has been closed. I just called my bank and learned that any one party on a shared account can close the account at any time. They don't need the other signatories consent. This applies to any checking account. The only case where consent/notification is required is a credit card. Apparently this is standard banking policy, not just my bank.
Maybe it's a blessing. If I can't see it I have less to worry about.

kmarla,

I'm sorry to hear this. I've never had a joint account but would have thought both parties would have to sign off on closing the account. It must seem like just one thing after the next.

I'm glad you started this thread. You've initiated a discussion during which others have shared information, experiences and offered support.

There seems to be a consistent message of doing what one can for a loved one but not at the expense of one's own safety. Also, its important to try and find some peace and calm even, or especially, while dealing with a great deal of stress and anxiety.

I suspect you and many of the others here don't often hear this, so may I just say:

Thank you for the love and support you have provided to your loved one despite difficult or unimaginable circumstances. For those who no longer are in contact with a loved one, know that such a situation is sometimes the best or only alternative. Sometimes, you need to take a step back temporarily or permanently. There is no clear, simple solution to every life situation, and love isn't enough to heal all issues.

Sending all of you supportive thoughts and wishing you continuing inner strength.

Hugs

 

[kmarla]

December-fire, I'm just seeing your post now. Thank you so much for your thoughtfulness and wonderful words of support. It really means a lot to me

We just finished last minute packing and everything is done. Our daughter is coming at 11:30 a.m. tomorrow to get her things. I feel like I haven't been able to take a proper breath since all this happened. Hopefully after tomorrow we will be able to take back our life. We have our first support group meeting this week and I'm looking forward to doing something constructive and helpful for ourselves.

 

[Queenie60]

Will be thinking about you Kmarla - I hope all goes well when she gets her things and you should take your life back. I look forward to doing the same real soon.

 

[Queenie60]

December-fire, I'm just seeing your post now. Thank you so much for your thoughtfulness and wonderful words of support. It really means a lot to me

We just finished last minute packing and everything is done. Our daughter is coming at 11:30 a.m. tomorrow to get her things. I feel like I haven't been able to take a proper breath since all this happened. Hopefully after tomorrow we will be able to take back our life. We have our first support group meeting this week and I'm looking forward to doing something constructive and helpful for ourselves.

Been thinking about you all day as last night did not go well for us. We are escalating his move out date. Did your daughter come by today to get her things? How did it go for you?

 

[kmarla]

Queenie60, she is all moved out, but not in the way we thought it would happen. We received a text very late last night from her saying something came up so they wouldn't be coming today after all. She didn't respond to any texts or phone calls from us either last night or this morning. We were upset. This is the third time she's stood us up since she ran away, and we were about to put all her stuff in the garage. Suddenly at 11:30 a.m. my husband got a strange text from her saying to take her things to Dymon storage downtown. That's it. At the exact same time I noticed a Dymon storage van in our driveway. My daughter still wasn't responding, so my husband went out to speak to the driver. To make a long story short, my husband loaded up the van, followed it to the storage facility, unloaded, paid for the storage unit until the end of the month, and was about to leave when our daughter and the person she's staying with showed up. They signed the lease etc and my husband talked to our daughter for a few minutes. It seems they had made these arrangements with Dymon, but didn't bother to tell us. Anyways, her stuff is gone. Our daughter says she wants to come and visit us sometimes, and apparently she did thank my husband and I for doing all this hard work to move her.
I woke up with a really bad headache today and it's just starting to feel a bit better now. I'm sure it was caused by all the drama of the last couple of weeks. Now we can start to let go of all this and take care of ourselves. I'm really sorry that you've had a difficult day and hope that you can successfully move up your sons moving out day. I do feel better in a weird kind of way now that everything of hers is gone. It makes you accept the reality of everything. I'm having trouble with words right now, but I think that day by day we will see a positive improvement in our lives.

 

[Queenie60]

I wish you well kmarla - things will get better as time passes. I'll keep you posted on my progress. Take care.

 

[MarionC]

kmarla
It's good that she has not completely cut ties and thanked you. Obviously you all love each other. Where there is connection there is hope, but I am glad to hear that the process of her moving out is complete and you and your DH can begin to build a life independent of the constant hell-on-earth drama. I wish you and your DD all the best.

 

[chemgirl]

I'm starting to get fed up with bipolar friend who I mentioned earlier in this thread. Normally he manages his illness extremely well. He supervises a large group of people at work, is extremely organized, and always meets deadlines.

That said, sometimes he starts to slip a bit. It's subtle. People close to him might notice, but acquaintances/coworkers wouldn't.

He's slipping again. Nothing terrible, but he is getting a bit flirty. This happens every few years and I never know what to do. Nothing is overt, but it's definitely not in my head.

I'm generally socially awkward so it throws me off.

Maybe next time he does it I'll just ask if everything is OK.

 

[kmarla]

Queenie60, thank you! I'm thinking of you as well!

Jimmianne, yes, we're trying to keep a line of communication open. I'll be honest, it's not easy. Thank you so much for your good wishes.

Chemgirl, I 'm sorry to hear this. I really like your suggestion about just checking in with him to see if everything's ok. How he responds should give you a sense of where he's at. Good luck!

 

[House Cat]

Kmarla, I've been thinking of you. Your daughter's move out event had to be very unsettling. I hope that you are able to let go and let in the warmth of peace. The ladies I used to hang out with used to say that you can't rationalize with the irrational. I love that saying. Deep situations with unstable people usually never make sense so it is usually wasted energy to try and figure them out. Taking them at face value and telling yourself that you gave it your best is a good salve to the wounds. It was for me anyway.

Carving out a new normal can be therapeutic. I redecorated a bit. I didn't get too nuts with it because I was tired, but I did make the house very comforting.

I am glad that your daughter still wants to visit. That's a great sign.

 

[House Cat]

The doctor at the hospital was working to get my son into a live in rehab center. During that time, my son sobered up and walked out. He decided he just needed therapy "and that his family will help him.". In other words, his addiction took over and he needed to drink.

Feeling sad. I really thought he was going to get help. I am feeling very concerned about his suicidal feelings. This boy is very volatile. Even if he makes a contract wit someone, and he has, I don't trust he will keep it.

Interventions are very tricky. Hospitals cannot keep someone or force them into treatment unless they are involuntary. Once county is involved, treatment can be court mandated and enforced. Your other choice would be to file a "3 party petition."

Thank you Tacori. I always get confused about county's involvement when someone has private insurance. We do. Also, is the 3 party petition the same thing as having someone deemed incompetent? (lamens terms) I am definitely going to keep this in my back pocket because I know that my husband, my daughter, and I would all be willing to go to court to testify, but when I read the requirements, I am not certain that my son qualifies just yet.

We haven't heard a thing from him since he left the hospital. I'm sure everything is back to "normal" for him.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

The doctor at the hospital was working to get my son into a live in rehab center. During that time, my son sobered up and walked out. He decided he just needed therapy "and that his family will help him.". In other words, his addiction took over and he needed to drink.

Feeling sad. I really thought he was going to get help. I am feeling very concerned about his suicidal feelings. This boy is very volatile. Even if he makes a contract wit someone, and he has, I don't trust he will keep it.

Interventions are very tricky. Hospitals cannot keep someone or force them into treatment unless they are involuntary. Once county is involved, treatment can be court mandated and enforced. Your other choice would be to file a "3 party petition."

Thank you Tacori. I always get confused about county's involvement when someone has private insurance. We do. Also, is the 3 party petition the same thing as having someone deemed incompetent? (lamens terms) I am definitely going to keep this in my back pocket because I know that my husband, my daughter, and I would all be willing to go to court to testify, but when I read the requirements, I am not certain that my son qualifies just yet.

We haven't heard a thing from him since he left the hospital. I'm sure everything is back to "normal" for him.

The perk of County involvement is they are the one to "follow" your son's care and reinforce it if he is noncompliant. For example, in the counties I have worked with the standard agreement is to avoid drugs, alcohol, take meds, go to therapy, stay safe, etc...if he does not comply, they can send him back to the hospital. They might give him a case manager to help with meds/appointments. Since you have private insurance, it will be billed. County only pays for uninsured. To get their involvement does mean you have to either call the police or he has to do something unsafe in front of the police. 3 party petition is saying he is mentally ill/unsafe and needs to be hospitalized. They hold him until a "hearing." The judge decides based on hospital's recommendations if he can be safely released or stay. It is not the same thing has guardianship or declaring him incompetent. Most people don't know about 3-party petitions. You do need a lawyer to file it. Let me know if you have any other questions.

ETA: Chapters or commitments are NOT criminal charges. They will not be on a criminal/court record. Only on medical.

 

[kmarla]

Kmarla, I've been thinking of you. Your daughter's move out event had to be very unsettling. I hope that you are able to let go and let in the warmth of peace. The ladies I used to hang out with used to say that you can't rationalize with the irrational. I love that saying. Deep situations with unstable people usually never make sense so it is usually wasted energy to try and figure them out. Taking them at face value and telling yourself that you gave it your best is a good salve to the wounds. It was for me anyway.

Carving out a new normal can be therapeutic. I redecorated a bit. I didn't get too nuts with it because I was tired, but I did make the house very comforting.

I am glad that your daughter still wants to visit. That's a great sign.

Thank you so much Housecat. We had a really terrible day yesterday. Lots of texting from our daughter with a whole new set of demands, orders etc. She's blitzing my husband at work and he's having to step out of meetings etc to deal with it. She'll meet with my husband but not me...only meet us with her new friend beside her for protection in a public place...you get it. No, we didn't agree to this. After much back and forth, she said she'd come by to pick up her income tax returns, pay stubs etc last evening but she didn't show up. This is her 4th no show since she ran away. We're not going to allow her to do this to us. We're being abused by her. My husband and I were both literally shaking last night from stress and feeling overwhelmed. At this point we need to take a break from communication since it's become threatening to us. We have given her information about where she can go in an emergency, information and all the contact numbers for mental health treatment, emergency and subsidized housing etc. I don't even know if this is the mental illness speaking right now, or if this is who she really is at the core. Honestly it feels more like she's a psychopath, no conscience at all.
My husband and I have booked an overnight stay for this weekend at a nice getaway. We need a change of scene and some time away from this craziness. It is giving us something positive to focus on.

 

[december-fire]

kmarla,

I'm so sorry to hear about yesterday's events.

You and your husband are wise to put yourselves first. The shaking and feelings of being overwhelmed are signs that you really need to pull back. I wouldn't be surprised if you and your husband have developed high blood pressure or other health concerns as a result of the on-going stress and anxiety.

There can be very serious, long-term effects on your health.

A weekend away is an excellent idea.

But please see your doctor.

Your and your husband's health and your husband's career should not be negatively impacted by being subjected to your daughter's behaviour. Setting clear boundaries with your daughter might benefit all involved. You might want to stipulate that your husband won't answer calls during office hours and, in case of an emergency during office hours, your daughter is to contact you. And, if your daughter leaves several messages during office hours, I suggest the calls not be returned until after office hours. Boundaries need to be clear and consistent; this is about protecting you and your husband. If anything, boundaries might help your daughter.

I really hate to add something else for you to worry about, but have you changed the locks on the house?

Even if your daughter has returned the house keys, a copy might have been made (unless you have keys that can't be copied without appropriate authorization).

It would be awful to return from your weekend away to find your daughter's 'friend' has convinced her to help herself to your belongings.

Keeping you and your family in my thoughts.

Hugs

 

[Jambalaya]

[Thank you so much Housecat. We had a really terrible day yesterday. Lots of texting from our daughter with a whole new set of demands, orders etc. She's blitzing my husband at work and he's having to step out of meetings etc to deal with it. She'll meet with my husband but not me...only meet us with her new friend beside her for protection in a public place...you get it. No, we didn't agree to this. After much back and forth, she said she'd come by to pick up her income tax returns, pay stubs etc last evening but she didn't show up. This is her 4th no show since she ran away. We're not going to allow her to do this to us. We're being abused by her. My husband and I were both literally shaking last night from stress and feeling overwhelmed. At this point we need to take a break from communication since it's become threatening to us. We have given her information about where she can go in an emergency, information and all the contact numbers for mental health treatment, emergency and subsidized housing etc. I don't even know if this is the mental illness speaking right now, or if this is who she really is at the core. Honestly it feels more like she's a psychopath, no conscience at all.
My husband and I have booked an overnight stay for this weekend at a nice getaway. We need a change of scene and some time away from this craziness. It is giving us something positive to focus on.

Kmarla, I am so sorry to read of what you're going through. It sounds so horrendous, and having lived with two mentally ill family members, I can relate to some of it. I remember days that were just desperate, and it did have a terrible effect on me - racing heart etc. I remember one day after a full day of tantrums I just went to the local park and lay down on a bench in the shade. I didn't know what else to do. I tell you this to relate that I sort-of get it to an extent, although I don't know what it's like to have a mentally ill child. Except...she's not a child anymore, is she?

In a way, it doesn't matter whether it's the illness or the core of who she is. She is like this, period, and she is having a horrendous effect on you. That you were shaking with stress last night is just heartrending to read. The bottom line with people who have severe mental illness is that, if they can't stick to a proper multi-pronged treatment approach, you have to distance yourself or go down with the ship.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think you should distance yourself from your daughter permanently. I mean significant distance. It is her choice not to take proper treatment and perhaps one of the consequences for her is that she loses her family. You have done your duty and now you have no further obligation to an adult who has had a very loving family and then treats them in this way. You've done everything you can and your conscience is clear. You can't go on like this. I know it's easy for me to say since I don't love her and she's not my daughter, but I do know that being close to someone with rampant untreated mental illness is impossible, a zero sum game, and if I were you I don't think I could see the back of her fast enough. I'd tell her that I don't want to know her anymore, I've done all I can, I wash my hands of her and good luck, you're on your own. Then I'd move house and refuse to give out the new address, I really would, but agree to meet with her twice a year or something. I'd view her as a distant relative from now on, for the sake of your health, your husband's health, and your marriage. How dare she spoil your life like this? Isn't life hard enough already? I've seen a lot of people get older and sick in the last few years. What if you or your husband develop health troubles? Imagine fighting a serious illness and having to deal with her as well. No. Just no. You asked the question "When is enough?" in this thread. Round about now, I'd say. So many hugs xxx

 

[House Cat]

Kmarla, I've been thinking of you. Your daughter's move out event had to be very unsettling. I hope that you are able to let go and let in the warmth of peace. The ladies I used to hang out with used to say that you can't rationalize with the irrational. I love that saying. Deep situations with unstable people usually never make sense so it is usually wasted energy to try and figure them out. Taking them at face value and telling yourself that you gave it your best is a good salve to the wounds. It was for me anyway.

Carving out a new normal can be therapeutic. I redecorated a bit. I didn't get too nuts with it because I was tired, but I did make the house very comforting.

I am glad that your daughter still wants to visit. That's a great sign.

Thank you so much Housecat. We had a really terrible day yesterday. Lots of texting from our daughter with a whole new set of demands, orders etc. She's blitzing my husband at work and he's having to step out of meetings etc to deal with it. She'll meet with my husband but not me...only meet us with her new friend beside her for protection in a public place...you get it. No, we didn't agree to this. After much back and forth, she said she'd come by to pick up her income tax returns, pay stubs etc last evening but she didn't show up. This is her 4th no show since she ran away. We're not going to allow her to do this to us. We're being abused by her. My husband and I were both literally shaking last night from stress and feeling overwhelmed. At this point we need to take a break from communication since it's become threatening to us. We have given her information about where she can go in an emergency, information and all the contact numbers for mental health treatment, emergency and subsidized housing etc. I don't even know if this is the mental illness speaking right now, or if this is who she really is at the core. Honestly it feels more like she's a psychopath, no conscience at all.
My husband and I have booked an overnight stay for this weekend at a nice getaway. We need a change of scene and some time away from this craziness. It is giving us something positive to focus on.

Oh goodness, I am so sorry. Yes, I know this. I know the shaky feeling.

I had to finally tell my husband that there are very few scenarios that needed to be addressed right in the moment with our son. Most of them involved burning buildings and life threatening scenarios and even those are beyond our control. I told him that from now on, we have the choice to take control of the situation and we have the choice to respond to our son when we decide we are ready. We can take a breath and take a day or two and respond when we have thought things out in a sensible manner. We can put the phone away and ignore messages. Our son has a tendency to abuse and flip out and use trauma to his advantage by making people respond and make decisions when they aren't thinking straight. When we step back and regain control of ourselves, we take away his power. It sounds like you two are doing something like this too. We get to the point to where we can only take so much.

When they are all worked up and trying to take control (because their minds are so out of control), they do feel like psychopaths. They feel completely unsafe because they are devoid of any warmth. I don't know if I can say that they are psychopaths though, because I would imagine that a real psychopath would be charming the pants off of you to get what they want, rather than freaking out and abusing... but I am no psychiatrist.

I feel the safest thing to do right now is to stick with facts, rather than add to it because that might cause even more emotional harm to this situation. The facts are (and of course, I don't know all of them): Your daughter has quite a few diagnoses. She hit a mood swing for some reason, even while taking meds. She ran away and suddenly discontinued meds (never a good thing.) Both of these acts skyrocketed her poor judgment and her mood swing. Now it sounds like she is in an agitated and elevated state that is affecting her judgment. I think those are the facts, there may be other facts, such as..the people she is living with might be feeding her lies, but unless you know that for sure, maybe you should keep that out of the story. But, the reason I am saying that you should stick to the facts is that when my stepson was in crisis, the hospital was telling me that he could possibly have narcissitic personality disorder or antisocial personality disorder, that stuck in my head and it did a lot of damage to the way I felt about him. I still can't trust him fully because of my thinking about those possible diagnoses. He does show characteristics of these personality disorders. But I would have liked to have been able to give him the benefit of the doubt. Now, I just wonder if he is actually being sweet or if it is a part of some manipulative agenda because both of those personality disorders are cunning and lacking empathy. Sigh.

A weekend away sounds really nice! I hope you enjoy yourselves to the fullest! My youngest is away at science camp for four days. My husband and I have the house to ourselves for the first time in YEARS. I keep walking around, feeling like I'm forgetting something. We are lost. LOL!

 

[Queenie60]

I hear what you're saying Housecat. It becomes quite confusing when the Professionals continue to place labels on our mentally ill youngsters. I went back and reviewed my NAMI binder from a few years ago and it mentioned what you were saying. Stick to the facts, be as patient as possible and try to deal with the current mood at hand. Many of the symptoms cross, are similar and it can become tricky to label and diagnose them. We have decided to deal with the symptoms at hand. Although we are certain that our son is Bipolar, he has all of the signs and symptoms. At this time he is in an upswing. His mood has tempered for the time being; he's being very nice and calm. And of course, he wanted something. He just left to ski and was being nice because he wanted to use our family ski cabin. Of course my husband allowed him to go as we need a breather from him. We are hoping that the physical activity (skiing) and mountain air will help to clear his mind so that when he returns from his trip in a few days we can peacefully let him know that we have an apartment for him and will be moving him out. It was a useless thing to do while he was in a rage for several days. Ahhhh, time to take a breather, release all of my built up anxiety and enjoy the next few days with my husband and furry friends!

 

[kmarla]

December-fire and Jambalaya, thank you both so much for your comments. I said at the beginning of this thread that we have been dealing with one crisis after another since she was 12. That was the first time she ran away, apparently just to test us to see if we loved her. It has only gotten exponentially worse over time. This time is even worse because she has found someone to befriend who is a real piece of work. She is a 40 something former? crack cocaine addict who has been through the system, and has 3 children that she doesn't have custody of because of her lifestyle. She is living with a guy who has kids but doesn't have custody for similar reasons. They are all on welfare. She personally told my husband this the night he went to pick our daughter up, so it's straight from the horses mouth. She is guiding and directing our daughter, and our daughter is thrilled with her new empowerment. She doesn't realize that she is losing her family. Or maybe that's exactly what her goal is. The end result is the same.

My husband and I talked last night and agreed that he will not respond to texts/calls during work hours. We will not agree to any visits unless it is convenient and safe for us. Her new friend will not step in our house, nor will our daughter unless she is respectful. I will mail her her paperwork. I want no communication with our daughter right now. My husband is still struggling internally with where parental obligation starts and stops. We've received that terrifying call from the police at 2:00 am before (a previous crisis) about our daughter, and I think this is his greatest fear. It's more complicated for both of us because our daughter is lower functioning. Having said that, she does seem to get by somehow. I think our daughter has made her choice and her family just doesn't fit into her new lifestyle.

Health is a very real concern. I have had hypertension since my early 30's (familial), and have had two strokes and a heart procedure in the last five years. I lost consciousness suddenly while driving a year ago, ironically while we were in a pretty stable period. So yes, I worry about my health and I'm trying to stay as calm as possible. My doctor keeps reinforcing to me how important it is that I keep my stress levels low. That's a little tricky right now. My husband is a long distance runner, and that really helps him get through these times.

Okay, I don't want to turn this into a novel, so I'll stop now. Thank you again for the amazing support and constructive advice!!

 

[Queenie60]

Kmarla - sounds like this low life women is taking advantage of your daughter. Very concerning as I'm sure your daughter can be manipulated very easily. Take this time to relax and to take care of yourself. You need to stay well and strong so that you can help her when this current situation fails. Allow your husband to take the lead and deal with the calls and comments - this is how I'm handling our current situation with our son. I've taken the backseat on this one.

 

[kmarla]

Housecat and Queenie60, I'm sorry that I didn't see your comments before I just posted. They are very helpful! We are doing our best to stick to the facts. No, I don't really think our daughter technically is a psychopath, but she doesn't have a well developed sense of empathy. This is likely related to the autism challenges. At one of our emergency room visits with her when she was 17, they were convinced she was ODD. I can certainly see why they thought that, as she can present that way. As far as we know, she is still compliant with her meds. But who knows. We have our first support group meeting tomorrow. I will probably just listen and observe and try to take it all in. I have to run for an appointment, but thank you so much. I am taking everything in!!