Need Help with Transitional Cut Round

[Sweet-Tea]

Hi PS community,
I have gone through 2 not so great cushion cut stones and have finally set my heart on either an Old European Cut round or Transitional Cut round, and plan to set it in a cushion shaped halo from Victor Canera. I am just mesmerized by the brilliance of a round diamond! Can't wait to find the stone of my dreams! Sooo, I have been lurking around some of the vendor sites that I've seen on PS (so thankful to you all). I found this one at JbG. I'm going from an E (excellent cut) cushion cut and this one is an I. It looks lovely in the photos. http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/1-ct-to-2-00/1-44ct-transitional-cut-diamond-gia-i-vs1

Lots of questions...

1. How noticeable is an I from an E?
2. How does the stone (brilliance and pattern wise) look to you all in the photos?
3. Do you think the face-up size is good?
4. Anything else I'm missing or should consider?

I also attached a photo of my current stone to give you an idea of the color difference.

Thanks so much for any advice!!

 

[tyty333]

My answers in bold

1. How noticeable is an I from an E?
I think it will be fairly noticeable. Will it bother you? Depends if you're ok with lower colors. Most people on PS go with lower
colors in old stones.
2. How does the stone (brilliance and pattern wise) look to you all in the photos?
The pattern looks fine to me.
In the video it looks to be a pretty sparkly stone. I dont know if I'm seeing much fire though but that could just be the video.
3. Do you think the face-up size is good?
I believe it faces up larger due to the shallow depth.
4. Anything else I'm missing or should consider?
It is a shallow stone so you need to ask Grace how that is affecting it compared to a regular depth stone. It also looks like
it has a shallow crown which may be affecting the fire. You would want to ask Grace about that. Call and talk to Grace. She
is the expert and I'm pretty sure she will tell you like it is.

 

[Sweet-Tea]

My answers in bold

1. How noticeable is an I from an E?
I think it will be fairly noticeable. Will it bother you? Depends if you're ok with lower colors. Most people on PS go with lower
colors in old stones.
2. How does the stone (brilliance and pattern wise) look to you all in the photos?
The pattern looks fine to me.
In the video it looks to be a pretty sparkly stone. I dont know if I'm seeing much fire though but that could just be the video.
3. Do you think the face-up size is good?
I believe it faces up larger due to the shallow depth.
4. Anything else I'm missing or should consider?
It is a shallow stone so you need to ask Grace how that is affecting it compared to a regular depth stone. It also looks like
it has a shallow crown which may be affecting the fire. You would want to ask Grace about that. Call and talk to Grace. She
is the expert and I'm pretty sure she will tell you like it is.

tyty333 - Thank you so much for your helpful response. I don't believe I have seen an I color diamond in person. If it is noticeable as you mentioned, then it will definitely bother me. I've read that a lot of folks like the lower colors in OECs, but I don't think I would. I guess I don't know the difference between sparkle and fire? Also, are you saying its shallow because of the depth percentage being under 60%? What is a regular depth? Thank you for that advice because I wouldn't have known that. I just happened to stumble upon this one, but it sounds like it's probably not for me. Thanks again for your thoughts!

 

[tyty333]

Talk to Grace. See if she has something else for you. Most of the ones I look at seem around 64%ish but there is a very
wide range. But you really need to talk to Grace to see if the depth affects the stone. I think she is pretty picky about her stones so it may not.

 

[chrono]

1. How noticeable is an I from an E?
Very different. One is icy white whilst the other has a touch of warmth. Not yellow, just not stark white.

2. How does the stone (brilliance and pattern wise) look to you all in the photos?
Pattern looks okay but is closer to a MRB than an antique cut.

3. Do you think the face-up size is good?
Face up size is good because it is shallow, even by MRB standards. I would double check that there are no negative effects from it.

 

[Sweet-Tea]

1. How noticeable is an I from an E?
Very different. One is icy white whilst the other has a touch of warmth. Not yellow, just not stark white.

2. How does the stone (brilliance and pattern wise) look to you all in the photos?
Pattern looks okay but is closer to a MRB than an antique cut.

3. Do you think the face-up size is good?
Face up size is good because it is shallow, even by MRB standards. I would double check that there are no negative effects from it.

chrono - Thanks for your response. I am pretty color sensitive and have a feeling the color difference will bother me. The last cushion I had was a G and I thought the color difference was HUGE compared to the E. Maybe it was that that stone was a low-end G. I have a conundrum in that I love the brilliance/fire of the MRB, but I love the larger facet pattern and unique character of the OECs. So, I thought one of the branded OECs with ideal optical performance would be a good idea, but I haven't seen anything that fits my my specs and budget...around ~7.2-7.4mm diameter, F or G (maybe an H if it faces up white), ideal optics and symmetry, around $12k or so. Do you think that's possible or is my budget unreasonable???

We didn't have very good experiences with last 2 stones we purchased and I REALLY want to avoid the same mistakes. This search is harder than I thought it would be. Ugh.

 

[ericad]

Can you go to some local shops and see certed I colored stones in person? That's really the only want to know how you feel about color.

Good luck with your search!

 

[Sweet-Tea]

Can you go to some local shops and see certed I colored stones in person? That's really the only want to know how you feel about color.

Good luck with your search!

Ericad - Thanks for your response. I was able to go to a local jeweler yesterday and viewed a 2 ct J OEC. Honestly, it had some pretty fire flashes, but the center pavilion facets appeared completely dull! Also I could see the color when the stone was on white paper, when it was turned face down, and viewed from the side. Face up the color was harder to detect except when I looked at the stone in daylight by the window. Now I'm feeling like I won't find an OEC that possesses all the brilliance/fire/scintillation components that I'm looking for without paying a serious premium.

 

[ericad]

The thing about old cuts is that there are some mind-blowing amazing performers out there, and some dogs. You'll know it when you see a gorgeous OEC or Transitional.

Also, ask potential vendors if the diamond(s) you like are in-house versus virtual stones - you would be surprised how many vendors don't actually have their "inventory" at their fingertips. This is important if you want the vendor to take side by side photos and videos to help you choose between stones.

My suggestion would be to find a vendor you like, who has fair pricing and a good selection (or access to other dealers from which to call in stones). Tell that vendor what you're looking for and let her/him make recommendations. Many dealers can call in stones from other dealers to screen for you in person (often the very same "virtual" stones you see listed elsewhere).

Buying an old cut can't exactly be done by the numbers alone - it's fairly complex and completely subjective - what one person loves, the next person won't. That's what makes antique diamonds so special - when you find the one that seems like it was made for you, you'll know it and feel so happy and lucky to have found it. To me, an engagement ring has to, of course, be beautiful and fairly priced, but it's also about how it makes you feel when you look at it.

Finding the perfect OEC for each buyer is like matchmaking, so find a vendor you like and see what she/he can find for you. It's far less scary than trying to choose all on your own, and is educational in the process.

 

[arkieb1]

It is great that you went to look at an old stone for cut and colour, but a few things stand out about your comments - you will not be looking at the stone against white paper, so face up on the hand is probably the most relevant view, closest to what your eye will see on the hand when set. An I is never going to look like an E. The higher the colour of the diamond the more white light return back to the human eye. Some people mistake this for fire and sparkle, it's kind of an optical trick, the whiter the stone you could argue the "brighter" it will appear.

I personally think old cuts do different things with colour, many for example hide or mask colour better or differently to modern cut stones, so that is why a lot of P/S members will accept an old cut in a lower colour than a modern cut.

Next thing to address is cut, the stone you viewed could have been a smuck cut so you can't write off all old cuts after viewing just one. You might need a fat arrowed transitional or something like a August Vintage or Canera old new cut to give you the "fire" you need, alternatively a decent cut H or above OEC might be O.K for you as well provided it's one with a good depth, a nice high crown and plenty of flash going on, so it is possible to find something you like but you might have to be patient and view a few potential stones in person to find the "right" one for you.

You need to view the transitional above in person to be able to tell if it is the right stone for you or not. I have a fat arrowed transitional with a big table and it's a fireball, but it is deeper than this stone. Ask Grace - I agree with the others she will give you an honest opinion, or at least make suggestions of stones that might best suit you.

 

[ksmom]

Chiming in to suggest that you put your trust in Grace - she is the very first vendor I have ever worked with to actually discourage me from purchasing stones and jewelry that would have led to greater gains for her. I've been buying exclusively from her for some time now but I have purchased diamonds in the past from Excel diamonds, GOG, Single Stone and OWD, and I've had settings made by ERD and Leon Mege as well as Grace's bench most recently. Grace's eye has been on point 100% of the time for me, and I wish you the same success in working with her to find your dream stone!

 

[Demelza]

Chiming in to suggest that you put your trust in Grace - she is the very first vendor I have ever worked with to actually discourage me from purchasing stones and jewelry that would have led to greater gains for her. I've been buying exclusively from her for some time now but I have purchased diamonds in the past from Excel diamonds, GOG, Single Stone and OWD, and I've had settings made by ERD and Leon Mege as well as Grace's bench most recently. Grace's eye has been on point 100% of the time for me, and I wish you the same success in working with her to find your dream stone!

Ditto to everything ksmom just said! I have been buying diamonds for a long time and Grace is by far the most honest, forthright vendor with whom I've ever had the pleasure to do business. And she's unbelievably patient too -- that woman is a saint dealing with me and my incessant questions!! Tell her what you're looking for and she will indeed find your dream stone!! Good luck and have fun!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Grace and Erica of Love Affair Diamonds are both great vendors and specialize in antique cut stones! Higher colors are harder to come by, but they can and do get some from time to time. I would see an I color first before ruling that out. That is about the limit of my personal comfort range for rounds.

I went for an AVR which is a newly cut OEC with excellent light return from Good Old Gold just because it met all my qualifications for cut. Victor Canera also carries newly cut OECs. They are more expensive and will definitely not meet your budget if you are wanting F or G color. I would encourage you to consider H or I color in antique stones. I prefer higher color in modern round brilliants, but antique stones look nice in H-I and sometimes J to me. This is what you can get in an AVR for $12k:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1-35ct-h-vs2-august-vintage-round-diamond.html

If you want an antique diamond, being patient is the key. Don't settle until you get a stone that has the qualities you want. Just know that higher colors are more rare, because many of the old ones were recut into modern stones long ago.