Thoughts on Indented Natural / Naturals

[calebyuen]

Hi all,

First off, thanks for your response. I have been searching the web and reading previous posts on this topic but I wanted some opinions on the inclusions especially the Indented Naturals and the Naturals in these two diamonds. I know what I want but unfortunately, buying diamonds online is quite difficult as you only have the GIA document to go off of. Please let me know your thoughts:

http://images.b2cjewels.com/Images//Certificate//6813248.pdf
http://images.b2cjewels.com/Images//Certificate//6732470.pdf

Thanks again for your time.

 

[dveeg]

I do not have enough experience to comment on those inclusions...perhaps the experts can weigh in.

I would suggest using the HCA tool here as a rejection tool as well. The two particular diamonds you picked score quite high (not what you want). To have the best chance at good performance, the score should be 2 or below

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

Is there a reason you have arrived at those two particular diamonds?

 

[calebyuen]

I do not have enough experience to comment on those inclusions...perhaps the experts can weigh in.

I would suggest using the HCA tool here as a rejection tool as well. The two particular diamonds you picked score quite high (not what you want). To have the best chance at good performance, the score should be 2 or below

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

Is there a reason you have arrived at those two particular diamonds?

Thanks for your input and that link. My pricepoint is about 10,500, with a VS2, F, and no fluorescence. I'm looking around a 1.3ct as well. These just happen to come up but I was curious about the naturals. But the tool you gave does help as I have a baseline to go off of.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Hi all,

First off, thanks for your response. I have been searching the web and reading previous posts on this topic but I wanted some opinions on the inclusions especially the Indented Naturals and the Naturals in these two diamonds. I know what I want but unfortunately, buying diamonds online is quite difficult as you only have the GIA document to go off of. Please let me know your thoughts:

http://images.b2cjewels.com/Images//Certificate//6813248.pdf
http://images.b2cjewels.com/Images//Certificate//6732470.pdf

Thanks again for your time.

Both are cut too deep.

 

[calebyuen]

Hi all,

First off, thanks for your response. I have been searching the web and reading previous posts on this topic but I wanted some opinions on the inclusions especially the Indented Naturals and the Naturals in these two diamonds. I know what I want but unfortunately, buying diamonds online is quite difficult as you only have the GIA document to go off of. Please let me know your thoughts:

http://images.b2cjewels.com/Images//Certificate//6813248.pdf
http://images.b2cjewels.com/Images//Certificate//6732470.pdf

Thanks again for your time.

Both are cut too deep.

Can you explain what I should look for when buying a diamond online? I only know the basic to go off of. What other items should I look for in terms of the cut and such?

Thanks again in advance.

 

[Jamiegems]

calebyuen

Your point is moot. Your worried about something that isn't worth worrying about. Those are both Vs2 diamonds. Unless you have a microscope your never going to see those. And you might even have trouble finding those with a microscope.
However since you are curious about them here is the definition of an indented natural.

Indented Natural (IndN) inclusions (indented naturals) are external imperfections that are caused by naturally-occurring recessed (concave) indentations that penetrate the surface of a rough diamond, and were not fully removed during the stone's cutting or polishing process.

This is one of the type of inclusions that is not harmful to a stone. it is just a natural indentation in the stone that wasn't removed when it was cut. Probably to save weight. What you do with that information is up to you.

What you should be concerned about, is the depth to width ratio. They are both 4% difference in depth to width. Neither of them are within 2% of depth to width ratio which determines how well it will reflect the light back out of the stone. However, having said that what you should do is look at them both and see which one sparkles the most. They are both slightly off but not so far as to cause major concern. The 2% rule applies to the Optimum % rate that would be the best possible scenario, that is what you should be thinking of not those "you will never see" inclusions. If there is any V in the clarity rating you won't ever see them at all unless you buy a microscope.
You might be able to feel it with a fingernail but you won't be able to see it with your naked eye. And it wouldn't compromise the integrity of the stone at all. Since it is a part of the natural formation of the crystal.

Jamiegems G. G.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Jamiegems,

We are all scratching our head for a few days now, ever since you appeared on this forum, and started bringing up the topic of depth-to-width, accompanied by some calculation supposedly best ending up around or below 2%.

Nobody has the slightest idea what you are talking about. So, please enlighten us, what is the formula arriving to this final result? Which numbers on the report should we multiply, subtract or divide? And if possible, can you add what might be the physics behind this, driving to better optical results?

Live long,

 

[Tourmaline]

Others are weighing on on those specific diamonds' proportions, but I want to respond to your question about indented naturals. My diamond is a VS1 and it has two indented naturals. I can see them with my eye and even better with a loupe, but I like them. They are on the pavilion and don't detract from the beauty of the diamond, and they show me that they are real minerals. I love rocks and crystals, and I also love diamonds. So I think they're a pretty neat kind of flaw to have. One has to be mindful of them when setting the stone, of course. If my diamond didn't have them, it would be a VVS1.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

calebyuen

Your point is moot. Your worried about something that isn't worth worrying about. Those are both Vs2 diamonds. Unless you have a microscope your never going to see those. And you might even have trouble finding those with a microscope.
However since you are curious about them here is the definition of an indented natural.

Indented Natural (IndN) inclusions (indented naturals) are external imperfections that are caused by naturally-occurring recessed (concave) indentations that penetrate the surface of a rough diamond, and were not fully removed during the stone's cutting or polishing process.

This is one of the type of inclusions that is not harmful to a stone. it is just a natural indentation in the stone that wasn't removed when it was cut. Probably to save weight. What you do with that information is up to you.

What you should be concerned about, is the depth to width ratio. They are both 4% difference in depth to width. Neither of them are within 2% of depth to width ratio which determines how well it will reflect the light back out of the stone. However, having said that what you should do is look at them both and see which one sparkles the most. They are both slightly off but not so far as to cause major concern. The 2% rule applies to the Optimum % rate that would be the best possible scenario, that is what you should be thinking of not those "you will never see" inclusions. If there is any V in the clarity rating you won't ever see them at all unless you buy a microscope.
You might be able to feel it with a fingernail but you won't be able to see it with your naked eye. And it wouldn't compromise the integrity of the stone at all. Since it is a part of the natural formation of the crystal.

Jamiegems G. G.

The depth to width ratio comments are indeed curious and I would also like to know more. The comments I have bolded regarding clarity are not accurate.

Blanket statements like "if it has a V in the clarity you will need a microscope to see inclusions" represent poor guidance, especially for consumers buying diamonds remotely. Whether a stone is eye-clean depends on the size of the inclusion, location, nature of the inclusion, and especially the size of the stone. It also depends on your eyesight and how close to the diamond you can focus. It is important to understand your personal tolerance for eye-clean. Good communication around this topic is very important for anyone buying diamonds remotely.

Having said that, VS2 diamonds in this size are commonly eye-clean and these particular stones may very well be. A discussion with the vendor will help you determine if they meet your criteria in this regard.

 

[calebyuen]

Others are weighing on on those specific diamonds' proportions, but I want to respond to your question about indented naturals. My diamond is a VS1 and it has two indented naturals. I can see them with my eye and even better with a loupe, but I like them. They are on the pavilion and don't detract from the beauty of the diamond, and they show me that they are real minerals. I love rocks and crystals, and I also love diamonds. So I think they're a pretty neat kind of flaw to have. One has to be mindful of them when setting the stone, of course. If my diamond didn't have them, it would be a VVS1.

Thank you for your input. I was curious to know whether it can be seen with the eye without using a microscope.

 

[calebyuen]

calebyuen

Your point is moot. Your worried about something that isn't worth worrying about. Those are both Vs2 diamonds. Unless you have a microscope your never going to see those. And you might even have trouble finding those with a microscope.
However since you are curious about them here is the definition of an indented natural.

Indented Natural (IndN) inclusions (indented naturals) are external imperfections that are caused by naturally-occurring recessed (concave) indentations that penetrate the surface of a rough diamond, and were not fully removed during the stone's cutting or polishing process.

This is one of the type of inclusions that is not harmful to a stone. it is just a natural indentation in the stone that wasn't removed when it was cut. Probably to save weight. What you do with that information is up to you.

What you should be concerned about, is the depth to width ratio. They are both 4% difference in depth to width. Neither of them are within 2% of depth to width ratio which determines how well it will reflect the light back out of the stone. However, having said that what you should do is look at them both and see which one sparkles the most. They are both slightly off but not so far as to cause major concern. The 2% rule applies to the Optimum % rate that would be the best possible scenario, that is what you should be thinking of not those "you will never see" inclusions. If there is any V in the clarity rating you won't ever see them at all unless you buy a microscope.
You might be able to feel it with a fingernail but you won't be able to see it with your naked eye. And it wouldn't compromise the integrity of the stone at all. Since it is a part of the natural formation of the crystal.

Jamiegems G. G.

The depth to width ratio comments are indeed curious and I would also like to know more. The comments I have bolded regarding clarity are not accurate.

Blanket statements like "if it has a V in the clarity you will need a microscope to see inclusions" represent poor guidance, especially for consumers buying diamonds remotely. Whether a stone is eye-clean depends on the size of the inclusion, location, nature of the inclusion, and especially the size of the stone. It also depends on your eyesight and how close to the diamond you can focus. It is important to understand your personal tolerance for eye-clean. Good communication around this topic is very important for anyone buying diamonds remotely.

Having said that, VS2 diamonds in this size are commonly eye-clean and these particular stones may very well be. A discussion with the vendor will help you determine if they meet your criteria in this regard.

Thank you for your input. I do appreciate everyone's time as this will be my first time purchasing and I've only done the beginner's research. I know buying diamonds remotely is cheaper so I'm trying to go this route but this is proving to be more difficult than I originally imagined.

 

[calebyuen]

I ended up going with this diamond, not a triple Ex but I think for the price, it was not bad to have the symmetry as VG. I hope the flaws are not that bad as I won't be able to see the diamond in person.

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pagename=GST%2FDispatcher&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=2196190264