I need advice please from you parents

[kenny]

Should I present the following proposal to the parents?

You may recall I'm teaching a neighbor's 12-yr old kid to play guitar.
It's going very well.
His mom tells me in private how much he loves it.
He's good at it too.

I sold them a nice (but 40 year old) guitar I had for what I had paid for it recently at a garage sale, $200, a very good price for what it is.
I had also recommend they consider one particular new guitar that is an extraordinary value at $399, a Big Baby Taylor, aka BBT.

http://www.amazon.com/Taylor-Guitars-Baby-BBT-Natural/dp/B001132AR6

It is so good it competes with many guitars priced over $1,000.
I've wanted one for myself for years since my good guitar is too expensive to take to the beach/camping etc.
Two or three times a year I'll stop into a music store and play one, hoping I'll run into an exceptional one ... which happens since wood is a natural and variable product.

Yesterday I found my BBT, with a spruce soundboard that sounds and looks like it belongs on a $3,000 guitar, and also got it down to $350, $380 with tax.
I'll bring it to the lesson this weekend and I expect Sam, fake name, will go gahgah over it.

It is also a bit smaller scale, 15/16, than his guitar, a full-sized dreadnaught.
He is struggling with the big guitar more than I had expected.

Here's my question.
I'm willing to buy back the $200 guitar I sold them if they want to cough up another $180 for a Christmas present for Sam.
I'd even coordinate with them the return of the exceptional one I bought last night so Sam could get that one.
It's just that I understand that a fine instrument is very important.

Should I propose this to the parents? (with whom I am very close BTW)
Or, is it inappropriate since it involves presuming they'd spend that much on a Christmas gift.
I don't want to pressure or offend.

 

[iLander]

Re: Advice please

You can offer.

This reminds me of when DD took guitar lessons (electric, on a Gibson Les Paul Studio) and the teacher thought she was very good. She can play Zeppelin's Black Dog clean and fast, exactly at the right tempo. Her hands run around like spiders on the guitar, it's bizarre. The teacher thought she should invest in a fancy looper peddle for Christmas, $800. He pushed pretty hard, but we got her an inexpensive one, $120.

Long story short, she hasn't played her guitars in a few years. She ended up selling all her instruments (except the Gibson and one cheap acoustic), for about what she paid for them. It was a pricey couple of years for us. Looking back, I'm glad we don't have an $800 looper sitting in the closet.

What the teacher didn't know, but what we knew as parents, was that her attention span wouldn't hold $800 worth. So, if they decline your offer, understand that it's not you, it's probably because they know their kid.

 

[Boatluvr]

I think it is an excellent idea!

I have three sons and two play guitar - and they have played various instruments (violin, trumpet, sax) since elementary school. They have stuck with the guitar (and they are now in their 40's). As a matter of fact my youngest son has several Taylors and lives in SoCal. He had one of his modified for playing with an amp. Taylor produces fine instruments.

FWIW, I think boys are more interested in guitars than girls are. $180 for a Christmas present is relatively cheap - think of the price of a PS4!

Go for it!

 

[momhappy]

As a parent, your offer wouldn't bother me (in fact, I think that it's a neat idea ), but I can see how the financial aspect of it might be a concern for some. You could always add something about how there's no obligation, etc.

 

[movie zombie]

make the offer, Kenny, and if you think $180 is going to be too much for them tell them you'll take payments w/o interest.
and you could tell them this could be a holiday president as well as their son's birthday present for 2015.

 

[Harpertoo]

I think it's really kind of you to be looking out for the kid - instrument wise! As a parent I really appreciate the insights of instructors and coaches. It can be daunting when interests don't coincide with your own strengths and experiences.

It's definitely a guessing game with some on how long an interest will hold. I have an expensive wager going that my daughter continues to love riding horses.....we'll see.

 

[TooPatient]

I don't think it is a bad idea. The only down side I can see is if he really likes the other one. Even if he is struggling with it right now, he may have an attachment to it.

Also, do you really want the guitar? It sounds like you really want one for yourself. Could you buy one for yourself and let him try it out during lessons. If he really likes it you could let the parents know where to get him one of his own. (That way if he doesn't like it as well or it is hard for him to use still they can know that before buying for him.)
If they are hard to find and this is a spectacular deal, you could even buy two yourself. One for you to keep and one for "a friend". If the parents decide he loves it and they want one you can sell them the extra. If not, take the extra with you on camping trips for duets!

 

[Jennifer W]

Why not make the offer by email? Would that work? I would be ok with the offer if it was my child, absolutely. However, I'd prefer to be able to think about it without being on the spot, so I'd really appreciate an email rather than a conversation. It's a preference, though. Not a deal breaker or anything.

 

[HopeDream]

Hi Kenny, It's great that your guitar protege is doing so well! You must be really proud of him.

Here's an alternative perspective, for you to think about:

Growing up, my dad would often buy me more expensive stuff than was necessary, even when I was just trying out a new hobby. I appreciate his eye for quality and a good deal (and have inherited it in my diamond hobby), but at the learner level when I was just trying things out, I always felt really guilty about it when eventually gave up the hobby and the expensive stuff was all for naught. As a new learner, I couldn't really tell the difference between the best stuff and the base model, so it just added to guilt of choosing to end rather than master a new hobby.

If I were you, I'd mention to your student that you could help him find a better instrument when he's ready, and see how he feels about it. If the kid is happy at status quo, maybe he'd actually prefer something else for Christmas. Alternatively, if he's really in to the idea, he might want to save up on his own if it turns out that his parents can't make it work. As a kid, it's really satisfying to save up for something that you really want.

It's really kind of you to look out for a better guitar for your young musician.

 

[AprilBaby]

I would offer, they could say no. Kid doesn't need to know anything.

 

[luv2sparkle]

I think you should mention it to them. It is a really sweet thing for you to do!

 

[kenny]

Thank you all for thoughtful responses.

ILander you raise good points.
I'm a childless old music geek with money to blow on instruments.
Parents must judge what may be only expensive short-lived interests of their kids.
I'd make it clear that a no answer is perfectly fine.
Fortunately a Taylor guitar will hold its value better than electronics which seem to be 'obsoleted' almost annually.

momhappy, yes I'd certainly say that declining the offer will not hurt my feelings.
In fact 50% of me hopes they do decline so I can keep this special Taylor for myself.
I'll add that I did NOT buy it assuming that they'd buy it for Sam, and I'll let them know that.

MZ, I would be happy to accept payments from them, that's how they bought that guitar from me.
But this time they are buying nothing from me.
They'd be selling me back my old guitar for the $200 they paid me, and buying the new one from the retailer the moment I return it during the 90-day return period so they'd get the non-transferable manufacturer's warranty.

Harpertoo, thanks.
Even if your daughter moves on to other interests you will still have enriched her life by her experience with horses. She will carry that with her forever. Maybe when she's 40 she'll return to that childhood passion.

Too Patient, good point that he may prefer the guitar he has now; that had not occurred to me.
I DO have a problem in that I am stuck behind my eyes with MY perception of value.
I see this exceptional Taylor as being a holy grail for Sam, but of course I'm projecting.

Jennifer, great idea about the email ... from the parent's point of view ... though perhaps not from the point of view of what's best for Sam's musical future of which I'm a better judge than them.
I worked with an engineer who never called people on the phone; he always went to their office.
He said he's much more likely to get his way when he's standing in front of someone.
Smart cookie.
Honestly the reason I don't want to email them is not 'to get my way'.
I want them to hear me play the new guitar and Sam's guitar side by side.
I feel that experiencing the difference in person is legit and very important.
Mom's a musician, piano, and I'm pretty sure she will hear $1,124 of difference that she would only have to pay $180 for. I think she'll get it and it will be a slam dunk.
I realize I'm coming across as a salesman, but I'm not making a penny here.
I'm selling passion, music, and love, which ultimately is free.

HopeDream, good point about a beginner not always being able to tell the difference between equipment.
Actually, while I agree the difference will not be as apparent today too him as it is to me, I take a different approach to this.
Learning on a better instrument increases the odds you'll stick with it.
It sounds better.
It's physically easier to play and less painful to the fingers.
Pressing all 6 strings down to get a bar chord is much easier.
A finer guitar is more responsive ... so smaller changes in effort result in more dramatic changes in the sounds.
Instruments vary and guitar can be quite physically painful and challenging for a noob.

The same student learning on a finer guitar with the same teacher will advance faster and find the whole endeavor more satisfying and rewarding ... and this makes him/her less likely to lose interest.
No guarantees of course, just less likely.
Plus, again, a finer guitar holds its value well so if the kids loses interest you can recover most of your investment.

AprilBaby, yes, Sam would not be privy to this private conversation.

 

[Jennifer W]

Kenny, I really do take your point, and I think that boy is lucky. My only hesitation would be that if I really wanted to say yes, for all the reasons you've explained, I would be better able to do that if I'd had some thinking time. If I was at all stressed about money, I'd need a while to figure out how (rather than if) I could afford it in the circumstances.

My parents bought me a really top grade instrument when I was sixteen. I wanted to play professionally, and they turned themselves inside out to get that for me, so I would have a chance. I'll never forget that, and although I chose a different path in the end, it opened doors and gave me opportunities and it meant the world to me.

Anyway, probably not terribly relevant, other than to say that this might be a very important point in this young person's life. So, whilst I and others can give perspective, you know best how the land lies. Go with your instinct. Good luck.

 

[junebug17]

I think it's a wonderful idea and you should mention it to them! As a parent, I would really appreciate the offer. If they decide not to take you up on it for whatever reason, no harm done. (But I hope they do!) I can tell you are excited by the prospect of your student owning this guitar and I think that's very sweet.

 

[kenny]

Well I did it.
I just got back from a visit with mom.
I demonstrated all 3 guitars and discussed everything brought up in this thread.

She suggested a blind test where she looks away and doesn't know which guitar I was playing.

I played a wide variety of sustain and decay tests and music on my high end guitar, the new Taylor and Sam's guitar, naming them only guitar 1, 2, and 3.

She was blown away, thankful, and enthusiastic.
She got it.
She now understands the difference and the remarkable value here, and grateful I'd buy back the old guitar and is going to speak to hubby.
She also knows I love this particular one, and declining the offer means I get to keep it ... and she knows there's another at the local store that's nearly neck and neck with mine.

She also volunteered how Sam is sounding better and better and playing more and more often, and even starting to play guitar when his friends come over to hang out.
She thinks he's hooked on guitar, which is good to hear when suggesting a more expensive instrument.

We agreed we'll say nothing to Sam, but watch how he reacts to the new Big Baby Taylor after I use it for this weekend's lesson.
Mom will be listening cloely to anything Sam says about the guitar after the lesson.

 

[kenny]

How funny.
I was just playing the new baby on our front porch when our guitarmom with a car-full of kids pulls up.
She rolls down her window ... "Hey Kenny, wanna come over for dinner? Sam's cooking."
Me, "Uh, okay, sure. Can I bring my new guitar?"
Sam sees it and his eyes light up.

So in 45 minutes Sam may see his new gee'tahr.

I love living in this whacky Southern Californian neighborhood.
(Sam's mom is even more of a looney tune than I am.)

I swear I'm not making this up even though it sounds like a contrived story.

 

[caf]

That is a great story and you are not at all troll like. Now if you had been asked out for coffee to talk...

I think too often we hesitate to ask or do for fear someone will think we are interfering, etc. You did a really nice thing. And it promotes the kid's interest in music. Only now you don't have the beach guitar.

 

[kenny]

That is a great story and you are not at all troll like. Now if you had been asked out for coffee to talk...

I think too often we hesitate to ask or do for fear someone will think we are interfering, etc. You did a really nice thing. And it promotes the kid's interest in music. Only now you don't have the beach guitar.

But Sam will.

I'm old.
I've had my fun.
Besides, I'll enjoy looking for another.

Good point about fear preventing us from taking chances, doing what's a bit odd and maybe living fuller lives.

 

[Karl_K]

i dunno magical geetaaarrrrs this sounds like a troll!
j\k your doing good, let us know how it ends up!

 

[diamondringlover]

Thats awsome, I am glad they got it..something about guitars and boys..both my boys play guitar, the oldest started with a pawnshop guitar at around age 15, we got it for him for Christmas, as time has gone on he has progressively gotten better and more expensive guitars, he currently plays in 2 different bands, he is going to be 29 next month, he loves music. My youngest son has a really, really nice guitar that we bought used from one of my oldest son's friends and he started playing around with a kid sized Fender when he was around 8-10 and he is very good as well, he is 17, both my boys are self taught! and both are very good at it. I think you helping the boy along is instilling a life long love of guitars and music

 

[WinkHPD]

Great read Kenny. As a parent and now a grand parent I was all for you doing it, just could not see a down side. Even giving up your new guitar is more than compensated by the joy of doing something nice for someone else. A real no lose situation.

If I had seen this earlier I would have said, "Go for it!". Now, all I can say is, "Well done."

Wink

 

[Calliecake]

Kenny, I am not a parent so I haven't offered any advice. I love this story. You did a really wonderful thing for both Sam and his family. If I had children and they had an interest they were really passionate about, I would be thrilled that someone like you was there to teach them and guide them.

 

[asscherisme]

3 of my kids taking private music lessons from people in their homes and I can say that I would be appreciative if their teachers offered me a good deal on a better instrument for my kids. If I felt it was too much money I would just thank them and say its more than I wanted to spend. But no harm in offering.

My biggest piece of advice though is if the parents turn you down on the offer, don't judge or make them feel bad for not wanting to spend the money but from what you wrote you are already on top of that. And make sure you mention to them privately NOT in front of your student.

I think its great that you want to help them get a better quality instrument for the best price.

 

[arkieb1]

I hope you find another guitar like it soon. And you need a big hug for your efforts with Sam, inspiring an appreciation of music both playing and listening is a wonderful gift.

 

[kenny]

Thanks all.

Update/clarification:
Sam's mom hasn't yet decided what to do.
She's waiting to talk to hubby who's out of town now, and also to hear more of Sam's reaction.

Probably typical of a 12-year old boy with his best friend in the room ... when Sam played the guitar last night he played it cool and didn't say much.
The mom says she'll listen for what he says about it, if anything, in the coming days and take it from there.
As suggested he may have a sentimental attachment to the one he has now.
Time will tell.

 

[armywife13]

I am just now reading this thread for the first time. Can I just say, as a mother, how awesome I think you are? Regardless of if I took you up on the offer, I would be grateful that my child has such a caring teacher who is genuinely interested in helping my child flourish! You are offering this boy and his parents a great opportunity. I think you handled the situation perfectly.

 

[Garnetgirl]

My husband plays guitar, and has several of various quality, so I followed your thread with a lot of interest.

What was the final outcome? Did the parents take you up on your kind and thoughtful suggestion?

 

[azstonie]

Hey Kenny:

I've had a music studio for over 30 years (clarinet, flute and sax).

Buying and selling instruments is usually the second touchiest conversation to have with students' parents.

You did this very nicely, good going!

 

[VRBeauty]

Kenny - I'm looking forward to reading the end of this story!

 

[House Cat]

As a parent with a boy in guitar lessons at this moment, I would have jumped on it!

How did this play out Kenny?


You are so generous to put so much time and effort into this young man. These people are blessed.