Newbie lookin for some thoughts

[Clueless Jimmy]

Howdy everyone,

I found this site through the help of a friend, so I figured I might as well use it since you all seem to know a thing or two about these little shinny rocks.

I have found a ring (sorry, the website wont let me upload a picture of a similar ring) that my girlfriend seemed to like. Well, in truth, she found the ring and pointed it out to be in a not so subtle sort off way. She really liked it, so it isn''t a matter of finding a different one that she likes, I am just trying to figure out if it is a good deal. It is a 2 CT TW three stone round diamond ring in 14K Gold. The center diamond is 1 CT, the 2 side diamonds are around 1/3, and there are accent diamonds that round out the difference. The rocks are H-I in color, and I believe they were SI1 in clarity. When I was looking at the diamonds I don''t think I could see any inclusions, but in truth I really dont know what I would be looking for anyways. Certified by IGI (does that make a difference? My buddy told me to try to find something from GIA). Final cost is $4500.

I have been dating this girl for over 5 years, and the actual wedding wouldnt be for a couple years anyways because I just graduated and she is in school, but I think the time has come for the ring to be put on her finger. Anyone have any comments?

 

[lizzyd]

Hi Jimmy -

How stuck is your gf on THAT particular ring? If she'll be disappointed with anything but, then perhaps you should just go for it.

If I were you, here's what I would do:

First, read as many tutorials as you can manage here, at Niceice.com, Goodoldgold.com, etc.

I assume you're looking at this ring in a typical B&M (that's Bricks and Mortar, otherwise known as a retail store).

I would call or go in and ask to see the IGI grading certificate. If they won't show it to you, I wouldn't even consider giving them my money. I'm not familiar with what an IGI certificate contains, but if it doesn't at least show Depth%, Table%, Crown Angle and Pavillion Angle, then ask them if they'd be willing to take the stone out of the setting and run it through their Sarin or OMG Megascope. If they won't I wouldn't consider giving them my money. How can you make an informed buying decision if you're not informed? If they're willing, but don't have the equipment, see if they will take the stones out of the setting and allow you to bring them to an independent appraiser, without having to pay for them yet.

If you can get the Depth, Table and Angles, then I would run the numbers through the Holloway Cut Advisor (under Tools in the drop down menu at the top of this page). That will tell you if it's a dog with a fair degree of certainty.

If it scores a 2.0 or better, and they won't let you do this without buying the ring first, then I would find out what the return policy is, and see if I could take it to an INDEPENDENT appraiser (there are plenty listed on this web site), and if it doesn't turn out to be what you thought you were paying for, make sure you can return it, for a full refund (not a store credit) no questions asked. That's why sometimes credit card is a good way to pay in case you get into some sort of disagreement over the return policy. You can dispute it through your credit card company. Don't be persuaded by the opinion of their "in house" appraiser either. He/she has a vested interest in selling the ring (thus the term 'independent').

My guess is that with an IGI grading report (your friend was right, go for GIA or, for even better disclosure of cut info, AGS) and typical retail lighting, the ring your girlfriend fell in love could quite possibly be some lower color and clarity grade than IGI says it is.

Also, with regard to cut, retail lighting (as people on this board are famous for saying) "could make dried monkey spit sparkle." In other words, even a dead stone looks good under those lights. On your way to the appraiser, see how it looks in natural light and all different light environments.

Then, if you end up returning the ring, I would do a search here on the Home page for H&A (that's Hearts and Arrows diamonds) around 1ct, in the I-J color range and SI1-SI2 clarity range. There are several Hearts & Arrows diamonds that are well within your budget, leaving plenty of money for side stones and a setting.

Almost any of the P-Scope e-tailers could make a ring that looks exactly like the one you saw, and with sparkle to die for (that makes the stones look bigger BTW). You would also have the advantage of not having to pay sales tax, and many of them have really good return/trade-up policies.

In fact, if I were you, I would check them out before I went to the trouble of having that other ring appraised.

If there are no Hearts and Arrows that float your boat, there are lots of stones out there that fall into the AGS I deal parameters that would knock her socks off.

Wow, sorry this sounds like all about what I would do. Hope it helps a little. Sorry it got so long.

Post if you have any questions. And keep posting about what you decide to do. Good luck!

Cheers,
LizzyD

 

[Clueless Jimmy]

Thanks for the advice.

I assume that all of the sellers listed on the site are fair and easy to work with, otherwise they wouldn''t be on here. Any sites to really try to work with?

Also, how will an H&A SI1-SI2, with H or I color look in yellow gold? That much better than a non H&A?

Another concern I have is buying the diamond online without actually seeing it. I am afraid that I will buy something that has a ''slightly visible inclusion'' that once I order and receive it will be more than slightly visible. Any thoughts on that concern?

Thanks again!

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 3/12/2005 7:27:42 PM
Author: Clueless Jimmy
Thanks for the advice.


I assume that all of the sellers listed on the site are fair and easy to work with, otherwise they wouldn''t be on here. Any sites to really try to work with?


Also, how will an H&A SI1-SI2, with H or I color look in yellow gold? That much better than a non H&A?


Another concern I have is buying the diamond online without actually seeing it. I am afraid that I will buy something that has a ''slightly visible inclusion'' that once I order and receive it will be more than slightly visible. Any thoughts on that concern?


Thanks again!

The most mentioned pricescope vendors those that put a lot of work into helping out here are top notch but just because a vendor lists their diamonds in the PS search engine doesnt mean Id recommend them.

H or I h&a will look awesome in yellow gold.
Its impossible to put a number on how much better it will look because each diamond is an individual and everyones eyesight is different.


If you buy from goodoldgold.com, whiteflash.com , winkjones.com or diamondexpert.com and a few others then its not problem you just return it and have them send you another if the first isnt what you want.
There are other trustworthy vendors out there but those 4 are my top picks.

 

[Kaleigh]

Clueless Jimmy,
strmrdr has given you some great advice. Look into the vendors he''s listed. They have a great reputation and I think you will be very happy working with any of them. Good luck, and let us know how you make out. Good luck!!

 

[lizzyd]

Hi Jimmy,

These are really good questions.

I assume the same thing about the vendors on this site. If they were not fair and ethical, they wouldn''t be allowed on here.

The ones that seem the most popular to work with, or at least get mentioned the most (IMHO) are the ones that provide the most information about the stones. My experience with Whiteflash has been fantastic. Others rave about Good Old Gold and Nice Ice (this is by no means an exhaustive list). I like it when they can send you 40x blown up pictures of the stone/inclusion(s), idealscope pictures, sarin or megascope reports, brilliance scope reports, etc. And I like that you can ask them to eyeball the stone for you before they go to the trouble of sending it.

I don''t think clarity or H&A necessarily effects how an H or I stone would look in yellow gold. I only do platinum, so perhaps someone knowledgable about YG could chime in here. I think I was just trying to say that a really well cut stone can carry off more color than a poorly cut stone, and a true H&A will be a very well cut stone. But there are very beautifully cut and super light performing stones that are not H&A in which color will also not be readily evident.

As for visible inclusions, if you buy a GIA or AGS anything VS2 or better, you should not be able to see anything with the naked eye (called eye clean). Going down to SI1 or SI2 requires some investigating about the location, size and color of the inclusions. Are they white or black? Only visible through the pavillion? Easily hidden by a prong? That''s when you want the person you''re dealing with to look at the stone for you and give you his or her honest opinion. That''s why it''s good that some (all?) of these guys are not drop-shippers.

As for buying sight-unseen, depending where you live, you might want to think about looking for a P-scope vendor near your home in order to be able to go look at really well cut stones and figure out what color and clarity is acceptable to you. If there isn''t one near you, then some of this will take a leap of faith. But then, buying with very little info from your friendly neighborhood jeweler requires a leap of faith too (plus sales tax).

It''s been my experience at Whiteflash (and others have had equally good experiences with other p-scope vendors) that the stones have appeared as decribed by my vendor, and the return policies are ''no questions asked'' as long as it is within the time limit they set.

You might also look into the possibility of having your vendor ship the stone to a local independent appraiser befor you pay for it. You might have to pay for shipping and insurance. But at least you would not be risking owning a stone you don''t want.

Hope this is somewhat clear and that I haven''t rambled on too much. AND IF I''VE SAID ANYTHING WRONG CAN SOMEBODY PLEASE JUMP IN AND POINT THIS POOR MAN IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION?

Cheers,
LizzyD

 

[Lord Summerisle]

$4.5k for a 2tcw ring... is pushing if for those rocks which fall within much of what many of us go for round here.

specially when many of the rocks just above that 1ct wieght point coming in at $4k themselves.
Take this one for example. ---> It aint a H&A by whiteflash standards - but woa... rather nice looking.

then add in a pair of well cut sides of ~0.3ct at $500 each and we''re already looking at £5k + ring.

so on paper $4.5k looks a good deal... but i do wonder as to the quality of the cut of the rocks of that ring. (if i remember correctly IGI dont put cut info on their certs other than depth and table.) and really is it false economy - ie in real world lighting (ie not jewellers) it might well be a dead duck... with no sparkle or life.

so yip - might be worth seeing if they''ll do a sarin to give that info.

You say your not that far outta colledge... so would it be worth going with a simple solitare ring with the 1ct - and later on changing the ring to the style she likes? - or waiting a bit longer to save a bit more to get some really excellently cut rocks in there..

 

[Clueless Jimmy]

Thanks to everyone for the help. I will now be spending the next couple days looking into some H&A diamonds, and looking into the vendors here on p-scope. I will surely keep you all posted!