How does a layman analyze fancy shaped GIA stones?

[crafftygrrl]

I know this has probably been discussed before. If someone can direct me to the appropriate thread, I''d appreciate it.

Is it possible to have a very well cut stone that is graded "good" for polish and "good" for symmetry?

I am looking at fancy shaped, fancy yellow diamonds--radiants and ovals. I''ve jotted down the specs for the best ranges for depth and table from this site. There''s a huge range of prices; it''s extremely confusing.

What I am trying to determine is if I spend:
• $10-$15,000 for a stone, I will be able to get a certain cut quality, a certain color, and a certain size
• $15-$20,000 what will that get me...
• $20-$25,000 and so on (it ends probably before $25K)

Will spending the extra money be worth it. I just want to buy something that I''m going to love. I am also extremely anal about large purchases. I wan''t to be sure I''ve done my due dilligence.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

The best way is to examine it via a 3D model from a Helium scan and view the stone in Gem Adviser.
next best is to use a more readily available Sarin Diavision 3D scan exported into DiamCalc > gem Adviser. Check out the tools section at the top of this page.
Next best is an look at it with and ideal-scope, or get an ideal-scope photo image.

 

[RockDoc]

Dear Claudia,

You sort of have a "double whammy"..

1. Analyzing proportions of a fancy which may or may not be accurate as to the quality of the appearance of the stone.

2. You want a fancy color, in which fancy color diamonds don''t follow the "rules" of proportion grading the same as a colorless stone. Fancy color diamonds are cut primary for showing the intensity of color, then for "looks".

These are attributes that only a very well experienced expert can judge properly. In a varying budget you will find lots of different combinations of color, clarity and cut.

A Sarin, OGI or a Helium report is interesting to know, but may have no reletive bearing on the color or appearance of the stone.

My suggestion is to find someone who is HIGHLY experienced in selling such stones, and trust their judgment and information, hoping it is factual.


Hope this helps

Rockdoc

 

[movie zombie]

and how does one find this person? what kinds of questions should we be asking to determine if this person is qualified?

i''ve tried phoning to screen out unnecessary trips to b&m''s and have found that what is represented on the phone is not what is in the store or that they are that knowledgeable, even. i''m not opposed to buying online but i certainly need to see more stones before i zero in on what i want. i don''t want to take advantage of a person who takes the time to work with me either. if i found someone that i could trust, i''d go with them.

but how do i find that person....other than people who post on pricescope?

peace, movie zombie

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Sorry folks - I did not read good - you want fancy color as well as fancy shape.
Roc is right - great cut does not alsays work for fancy color.

I would never buy fancy colors unseen. Even appraisers can not know if a stone is one YOU will like - it may be worth 2x more and have 1/2 the appeal to you over another stone.

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 3/11/2005 8:35

2 PM
Author: movie zombie
and how does one find this person? what kinds of questions should we be asking to determine if this person is qualified?

i''ve tried phoning to screen out unnecessary trips to b&m''s and have found that what is represented on the phone is not what is in the store or that they are that knowledgeable, even. i''m not opposed to buying online but i certainly need to see more stones before i zero in on what i want. i don''t want to take advantage of a person who takes the time to work with me either. if i found someone that i could trust, i''d go with them.

but how do i find that person....other than people who post on pricescope?

peace, movie zombie

Finding expert on fancy color diamonds.

Shopping at places that sell such goods. Go there if you can to learn only, see as many stones as you can.

If you''re in NY area. Metropolitan museum is a good start to see fancy colored diamonds
In DC the Smithsonian has quite a few, including the Hope Dia on display.( as well as quite a few others)


In L.A. try talking to Ariel at IceStore.com

In NY see Graff''s Website and store if you are local to them.

Not sure if its still on display but last time I was at Tiffany''s 5th Ave, they had the Tiffany on display.

Also Harry Winston ( They have J Lo''s diamond for sale,,, it''s not a yellow one though.. it''s a pink)

Spend considerable time learning about them.

Shop as you study...and it will take a lot of effort on your part.

Websites
http://famousdiamonds.tripod.com/famousdiamonds
( it''s an educational site.. not a seller. The beginning of the page has replica photo, but scroll down for the real photos)

Search Google for fancy color diamonds.. should be a lot of links there.

Also learn from books...

Buy Stephen Hoefer''s Book on Fancy Colored Diamonds - Pricey but woth having if your interest is that sincere. - Its $300.00

For a selection of books look at http://www.gia.edu and go to their bookstore. There are quite a few good books about fancy colored diamonds.

There aren''t many people who are genuine experts in this. But it is a rather small, but well known community if you spend the effort in learning.

Is the person really an expert? Ask for their CV or resume which should note their fancy color stone experience should they claim they are expert in the field.

THis should get you started... good luck in learning and researching.

Rockdoc

 

[movie zombie]

rockdoc,

unfortunately, i''m in the sf bay and monterey bay areas.....

have looked online at lots of sites, including the ones you''ve mentioned. have a couple of books but not that $300 one you mentioned!

i''m finding that when i walk into a place, i know almost as much, if not as much as they do. does not inspire confidence.

and most don''t want to deal with the M-Z issue....they do seem locked into their colorless/white marketing mode.

luckily, i''m not in a hurry. i''ve also been told i should visit the GIA museum[?] in los angeles to get a broad view of gems.

i think the M-Z and chamgpagne/cognacs are calling me.....

thanks for the help!

peace, movie zombie

 

[crafftygrrl]

Thanks for all your advice.
I am going to order some books and do some more research. I have time with this purchase. I have an idea of what I want. The key is to reconcile my budget to what I want.

There is a huge variance in price between the high end bricks and mortars, such as Saks (which carries Graff), Neiman Marcus, Tiffany''s and Finks and Internet merchants such as Dirt Cheap Diamonds, Diamonds by Lauren and Scheiner. The difference can be literally tens of thousands of dollars for relatively similar stones.

I have a funny story. I happened to be in Saks. Went to the jewelry department to check out rings while I was there. I happened to see a nice ring in the case in a small zip lock bag. I asked to see it. The saleslady said there was a problem with the ticket/price. It was marked 99¢. Try as I might to have her sell me the ring at that price, (jokingly

) she said she would look up the price/specs on the ring. It was a 3 carat fancy vivid with 1 carat sides--for $166,900. It''s alittle out of my range. The weird thing is Saks had no CERTIFICATION for the stone, nothing. Do people buy rings that expensive without certs?

Again, thanks for your help!

 

[RockDoc]

Hi Crafty

RE: Do people buy ring like that without Major Lab reports?


Those who do proper research and have some knowledge will insist on a report from GIA or other labs known for grading such stones..plus they will have their own expert verify everything.

But there are a lot of people buying who have more money than brains or common sense!

So the answer is yes, they do, but not everyone!

However, there probably is a report done on such a stone, the salesperson just doesn''t know it.

Rockdoc

 

[valeria101]

Thought you might like to see this... The colors are (in order left to right): Q-R, GIA's "fancy light yellow" and Y-Z.

However, these are pretty large (3-4 cts) and that has allot of impact on color. The photo was made at request by a seller and looks only a bit "optimistic" - just showing the stones at their best, not unreasonably so.

About price: 4 carat Q-R would be less than 20k (16-17...for SI1) as far as I know. The other sizes and prices are easier to track down.