Why Saring report when a AGS?

[eferna01]

I have noticed that some companies will post a Sarin report on an AGS stone. Am I mistaken in my understanding that the Sarin report is for GIA and other grading labs that don''t provide cut angle information?
If not the case, what other benefits do you get from a Sarin? How would you consier a AGS without a Sarin?
I look forward to the reading the responses, thanks all.

 

[strmrdr]

The sarin has more information on it.
The ags cert just lists the averages where the basic sarin reports also report the range.

At on time I would have said just an ags cert would be enough but some cutters are now cutting sloppy stones to get good numbers.
This can be seen on h&a photos but the sarin is still the best method of detecting them expecialy if you get the full report or .srn file.

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 12/24/2004 11:38:32 PM
Author:eferna01
I have noticed that some companies will post a Sarin report on an AGS stone. Am I mistaken in my understanding that the Sarin report is for GIA and other grading labs that don''t provide cut angle information?
If not the case, what other benefits do you get from a Sarin? How would you consier a AGS without a Sarin?
I look forward to the reading the responses, thanks all.

RE: Advantage to Sarin Report...

Sarin machines vary tremendously based on lots of factors. AGS used a Sarin, but they also used DOS based software.

Another consideration is WHICH model Sarin is used and which software is used.

The Brilliant Eye Model Sarin is the least accurate of the Sarin Models. So ask which model of Sarin was used.

The newest version of the software is DiaVision. Besides the number charts it is also capable of 3-D reports too.

Sarin''s software is controlled by the user. There are many types of reports that can be printed. Some report every facet, and some don''t. It''s more common to only get averages on supplied Sarin reports, but averages don''t report minute differences in the angle of the crown and pavilion which I believe consumers should consider when judging a diamond for purchase.
.

There is talk that the Horizon machine is now used at AGS... and claims say its more accurate than Sarin. I haven''t tested it, but the reports I''ve seen appear to be quite good.

A new Sarin report is helpful to double check against the figures on the cert or a MegaScope report.

Hope this helps

Rockdoc

 

[Serg]

Date: 12/25/2004 1:32

7 PM
Author: RockDoc

Date: 12/24/2004 11:38:32 PM
Author:eferna01
I have noticed that some companies will post a Sarin report on an AGS stone. Am I mistaken in my understanding that the Sarin report is for GIA and other grading labs that don''t provide cut angle information?
If not the case, what other benefits do you get from a Sarin? How would you consier a AGS without a Sarin?
I look forward to the reading the responses, thanks all.

RE: Advantage to Sarin Report...

Sarin machines vary tremendously based on lots of factors. AGS used a Sarin, but they also used DOS based software.

Another consideration is WHICH model Sarin is used and which software is used.

The Brilliant Eye Model Sarin is the least accurate of the Sarin Models. So ask which model of Sarin was used.

The newest version of the software is DiaVision. Besides the number charts it is also capable of 3-D reports too.

Sarin''s software is controlled by the user. There are many types of reports that can be printed. Some report every facet, and some don''t. It''s more common to only get averages on supplied Sarin reports, but averages don''t report minute differences in the angle of the crown and pavilion which I believe consumers should consider when judging a diamond for purchase.
.

There is talk that the Horizon machine is now used at AGS... and claims say its more accurate than Sarin. I haven''t tested it, but the reports I''ve seen appear to be quite good.

A new Sarin report is helpful to double check against the figures on the cert or a MegaScope report.

Hope this helps

Rockdoc

re: There is talk that the Horizon machine is now used at AGS

Are you sure?

GIA uses Horizon system. Horizon system is not scanner.

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 12/26/2004 4:18:30 AM
Author: Serg

Date: 12/25/2004 1:32

7 PM
Author: RockDoc

Date: 12/24/2004 11:38:32 PM
Author:eferna01
I have noticed that some companies will post a Sarin report on an AGS stone. Am I mistaken in my understanding that the Sarin report is for GIA and other grading labs that don''t provide cut angle information?
If not the case, what other benefits do you get from a Sarin? How would you consier a AGS without a Sarin?
I look forward to the reading the responses, thanks all.

RE: Advantage to Sarin Report...

Sarin machines vary tremendously based on lots of factors.  AGS used a Sarin, but they also used DOS based software.

Another consideration is WHICH model Sarin is used and which software is used.

The Brilliant Eye Model Sarin is the least accurate of the Sarin Models. So ask which model of Sarin was used.

The newest version of the software is DiaVision. Besides the number charts it is also capable of 3-D reports too.

Sarin''s software is controlled by the user. There are many types of reports that can be printed. Some report every facet, and some don''t. It''s more common to only get averages on supplied Sarin reports, but averages don''t report minute differences in the angle of the crown and pavilion which I believe consumers should consider when judging a diamond for purchase.
.

There is talk that the Horizon machine is now used at AGS... and claims say its more accurate than Sarin. I haven''t tested it, but the reports I''ve seen appear to be quite good.

A new Sarin report is helpful to double check against the figures on the cert or a MegaScope report.

Hope this helps

Rockdoc

re: There is talk that the Horizon machine is now used at AGS

Are you sure?

GIA uses Horizon system. Horizon system is not scanner.

How does the Horizon machine get its information? I would think it has a camera in it, like the Sarin does ?

If you noticed I said there was "talk" about AGS getting a Horizon machine... I am not sure - which is why I qualified the statement.

So no, I am not sure AGS is currently using Horizon or will in the future. Perhaps I confused GIA ( if they do have Horizon) with AGS. But I would think that AGS would want everything that GIA had.

It may be the proper thing to do, to offer consumers both reports ( Sarin and Horizon ) to see how they compare.

That might be a little "overkill" , but more is better than less in IMO.

Rockdoc

 

[Serg]

From Loupe 1997 year:

" .. which are upload into GAI GTL''s HORIZON Computer and Operations Management System..''

http://www.gia.edu/pdfs/reprintgrgbnoefi.pdf

 

[Richard Sherwood]

From my understanding, Horizon is a software databank system created by GIA which compiles information from several different sources to document the characteristics of a stone.

Data input from their Sarins, along with clarity plotting, grading characteristics, fluorescence, etc are all used in creating a profile of the stone. The Horizon itself is not a proportion measuring instrument.

This data is then used to compare with "unknown" stones submitted for examination, with one of the purposes being to establish consistency, "catching" any stones being re-submitted in the hopes of a better grade.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Correct Rich; that is what Horizon does.
It is also their management system that allows seperate graders to list their color clarity etc and make decisions as to which supervisor should check and (I imagine) which graders are weaker or who will be the next supervisor.

Roc are you sure you do not mean Helium rather than Horizon?

 

[RockDoc]

It was my belief that Sergey and Yuri developed the Horizon.... oops I guess I meant to say Helium...

Sorry folks..

Rockdoc

 

[RockDoc]

Thanks Gary...


Just as you wrote your post - I realized the error.. Thanks for pointing it out.

Maybe Serg might think of another name for it.... like the "SERG Machine"


Rockdoc

 

[denverappraiser]

GIA has a special name for their inhouse database? Geez. I've been doing this for years with Gemprint, Sarin, and Filemaker. I've no doubt that every major lab in the world does something similar. Sounds like I need to invent a name.

Super Excellent Robot Gemolgist.

Hmmm. It has a certain ring to it but something tells me that I should try something else.

Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 12/26/2004 2:13:36 PM
Author: denverappraiser
GIA has a special name for their inhouse database? Geez. I''ve been doing this for years with Gemprint, Sarin, and Filemaker. I''ve no doubt that every major lab in the world does something similar. Sounds like I need to invent a name.

Super Excellent Robot Gemolgist.

Hmmm. It has a certain ring to it but something tells me that I should try something else.

Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisals in Denver

ROFL
Sounds like a good name for S E R G.


I think GIA''s system is a bit different.... I understand it also does ( and has for years) 3 dimensional plotting files. One of the ways that they can check to see if a stone has been previously graded by them.


Rockdoc

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 12/26/2004 2:13:36 PM
Author: denverappraiser
GIA has a special name for their inhouse database? Geez. I''ve been doing this for years with Gemprint, Sarin, and Filemaker. I''ve no doubt that every major lab in the world does something similar. Sounds like I need to invent a name.

Super Excellent Robot Gemolgist.

Hmmm. It has a certain ring to it but something tells me that I should try something else.

Neil Beaty

Independent Appraisals in Denver

LOL!