I''m glad I''m not HIS wife!

[sumi]

John Stossel is doing his bit on 20/20 tonight about myths/stupidity in American society. I know he''ll rant at least a little about diamonds. Usually, I find his stories to be amusing, but he really has a thing against diamonds. (

arg! I can never forgive a man who doesn''t love diamonds! ha ha ha) You know, it''s the whole controlled market/DeBeers stockpile thing. I remember he did a piece about diamonds a while back and he said he would never buy his wife diamonds because the price is so artificially high.

My problem is this: there is no intrinsic price to a commodity. A thing is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Yeah, diamonds might not be as rare as we are lead to believe, but people are still willing to pay quite a bit of money for them. So, that''s what they''re worth! I''m certainly not afraid that in ten years my jewellery will be worth nothing.

Man, wouldn''t it be great if diamonds were in fact cheap?

 

[strmrdr]

He has some valid points.
Diamonds from a money standpoint are one of the worst deals going but then
again so are cars and computers.

Diamonds are not rare and it has been proven over and over again they just have good marketing.

Just because poeple are willing to pay a certain price for something does not mean it is worth that amount.
I would be nice if they were cheap :}

Check out this thread and the link there for the low down on how low the idustry has been.


pricescope

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 1/23/2004 12:23:39 PM strmrdr wrote:

He has some valid points.
Diamonds from a money standpoint are one of the worst deals going but then
again so are cars and computers.

Diamonds are not rare and it has been proven over and over again they just have good marketing.

----------------

Your diamond will still be here in 100 years. Your car/computer won't be. Diamonds have withstood the test of time for centuries. Diamonds have a proven track record of appreciation. I can think of far worse investments - or places to park cash whilst enjoying it.

I have yet to see anything prove to me that Gem quality diamonds that can be accessed are not rare.

And, if Stossels wife doesn't care for diamonds than mine. If she desires them, and he refuses to buy them for *her* than I pity her.

 

[sumi]

----------------
On 1/23/2004 12:23:39 PM strmrdr wrote:

He has some valid points.
Diamonds from a money standpoint are one of the worst deals going but then
again so are cars and computers.

Diamonds are not rare and it has been proven over and over again they just have good marketing.

Just because poeple are willing to pay a certain price for something does not mean it is worth that amount.


pricescope----------------

Yeah, it's not like people are buying diamonds because they think it's a smart investment.


Out of curiousity, how else would you determine the price of something, other than what someone is willing to pay for it? Like the saying goes, one person's trash is another person's treasure. It's not like there's an intrinsic price tag on an object.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

I feel sorry for this gal, too. My husband is totally this way. . . well, not completely as he does buy me diamond jewelry, but nontheless, he still feels it's a huge marketing scheme and refuses to see diamonds as anything other than overpriced rocks

AND, he always teases me, especially when I clean my ring and earrings.

Ah, MEN!

FWIW, I do see diamonds as an investment in a sense. I know they're not resold for stable value, but if you spend $2000 on a diamond solitaire pendant, you'll have a long term stylish necklace that will hold it's place in society for decades. Most junk jewelery comes and goes as does most of the clothes that many women spend huge amounts on. If you spend $2000 per year on clothes, chances are none of your attire will be chic after five years of wear (or even two years, at the rate styles change).

Michelle

 

[mike04456]

Diamonds have been valued throughout human history. In some ancient countries, it was illegal for commoners to even possess them. In medieval India, there was a caste system (as there is for everything) dictating who got to possess what types of diamonds; only royalty got to own the white/clear ones. So you should feel lucky to live in such an enlightened society now!

The current market value for diamonds is manipulated to some extent, but the demand is there and always has been (even if it may not be rational). Diamonds certainly hold their value better than a lot of other luxury goods. I have seen some convincing studies that De Beers' primary influence has been to flatten out the boom-and-bust cycle typical of other commodities rather than to artificially jack up the prices.




Diamonds as diamonds are not especially rare (130 million carats, which is 26 metric tons, came out of the ground last year), but the best gem quality ones are moreso. But certainly other gems like top-color ruby are far rarer.




One thing to remember is that diamond mining is extraordinarily expensive. Were it not for the high market price, they would not be mined, and thus would not be available except in much smaller quantites.

 

[strmrdr]

----------------
On 1/23/2004 1:08:05 PM sumi wrote:

----------------



Yeah, it's not like people are buying diamonds because they think it's a smart investment.


Out of curiousity, how else would you determine the price of something, other than what someone is willing to pay for it?






----------------

Right I agree 100% that a diamond should not be bought as an investment.
Tried to sell one recently? You are lucky to get 30% unless the vendor had a good buy back policy.
You buy a $1000 diamond.
It is now worth $300 because you walked with it out of the store.
That is where the tie in with cars and computers comes in.
They all 3 lose a huge amount of money when they leave the showroom floor.
Now back to the $1000 at a 5% increase a year in diamond prices how long would it take to get back to the original $1000?
After one year its $315
2nd 330.75
5 years 382.88
I will leave the rest of the math to you.
If you take the same $1000 and invest it in a decent returning stock fund lets say average 9% over 5 years.
You would now have $1500 and change.
$1500+ looks a lot better than 382.88 doesn’t it?


The price of diamonds is marketing driven not real world value driven.
Look at the price increase at the de beers commercial approved 1ct mark.
A .94 diamond that is bigger than a 1ct diamond where it counts sells for less than the smaller 1.0.
There is no logical reason for it but then again diamonds aren’t about logic are they?
They are about marketing driven emotion.
Does a guy love a lady less if he buys here a cz than if he buys her a diamond?
Does it mean he is a good guy?

Nope he could just be a jerk with a little money to throw around that wants the lady to overlook him being a jerk in exchange for a pretty rock.
I know 3 or 4 guys like that they bought all their wives large diamonds the 5th or 6th wife a larger diamond than the ones before.
The x-wives didnt get nearly enough for the rings to make up for the
stuff they put up with.
I guess they were too dazzled by the huge diamonds to say the smart thing NO. :{

 

[strmrdr]

For the record my feelings on diamonds falls someplace between over priced pretty rocks and WOW I dont care what it costs cuz its pretty.

I like buying my lady pretty things but I would never drop $10k on a diamond.
Now 2 or 3 of the .20 whiteflash h&a's mixed in with some real nice rubies and sapphires throw in a few settings and mix well bake at 350 woops got carried away there but anyway thats more my style :}

 

[fire&ice]

You simply can not view a diamond the same as a car or computer. A diamond is a hard asset. One with staying power over the long haul.

I can assure you that the car I had in the early 80's is mostly likely scrapped. In the early 90's, I was offered what I paid for my little stone from the 80's.

Two things are at work here - 1. it comes down to how close you paid to wholesale (how well you bought the stone initially) - & 2. No one is saying that a diamond has the best return nor that it is a true "investment" in the sense to make money - but it's not a bad thing to spend money on in the long run. A car will continue & continue to depreciate.

That said, a diamond has a solid good return for a luxury good. And, years, decades, if not centuries, of enjoyment can be experienced. Can't say that about a car or a computer. Not in the same league

Edited to add: the 10K is all relative in many different terms, aspects, financial situation, likes, etc.

 

[sumi]

----------------[/quote]



I will leave the rest of the math to you.





----------------[/quote]



NoooOOOoo! Not MATH!!!

 

[strmrdr]

----------------
On 1/23/2004 5:51:06 PM fire&ice wrote:


A diamond is a hard asset. One with staying power over the long haul.

A car will continue & continue to depreciate.


That said, a diamond has a solid good return for a luxury good. ----------------

I have to disagree in hard times it awefull hard to eat a diamond and to find someone to trade you for something usefull will be hard to do.
Guns and bullets are hard assets.

Depends on the car a friends dad paid $1200 for a cuda in the 70s and sold it for over $100,000.00 in the 90s.
Match that with a diamond :}

Bottom line in my opinion:

Guys if your Lady wants a diamond well then buy her one but dont look at it as anything but a nice gift she will enjoy or you will be disapointed.
Dont use credit to buy it and pay for the more important stuff first.
In other words take it out of the entertainment budget not the household one :}

Ladies watch out for men bearing diamonds they might not be what they put on to be :}

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 1/23/2004 10:22:19 PM strmrdr wrote:




I have to disagree in hard times it awefull hard to eat a diamond and to find someone to trade you for something usefull will be hard to do.

----------------

I have to disagree in hard times it awefull hard to eat a diamond and to find someone to trade you for something usefull will be hard to do.

Strm.....last time I checked (which admittedly is a while ago), cars and computers were awfully hard to eat, too. As far as something others will find useful, I defy you to try trading a Commodore 64 computer today. NO one will find that useful now, but a diamond bought during the same time period is likely valued today as it was when bought.

Depends on the car a friends dad paid $1200 for a cuda in the 70s and sold it for over $100,000.00 in the 90s. Match that with a diamond :}

Well, let's look at it another way. What if you *didn't* end up with the car that became a classic? I sincerely doubt you'll have the same experience 10 years from now with the Ford Escort, and I'm damn certain the Edsel didn't enjoy the same type of appreciation. Cars are only valuable later if they happen to become "collector" models....and that's a VERY narrow window to aim for. Diamonds are MUCH more versatile than that.

Buy ten different model cars and ten diamonds, and sell all of the cars and diamonds after 10-15 years.......and THEN tell me which held their value better. /idealbb/images/smilies/9.gif

 

[strmrdr]

I don’t know anyone that considers cars or computers hard assets.
I was stating my opinion diamonds are not either.

Interestingly enough we actually just sold a mint c64 at work the other day. :}
Guy called looking for one and we knew someone that had one.
Guy learned how to program on one and got it for
his kids to do the same.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 1/24/2004 1:23:02 AM strmrdr wrote:

I don’t know anyone that considers cars or computers hard assets.
I was stating my opinion diamonds are not either.

----------------

Just like the Flute is a heavy metal instrument, a diamond is a *very* hard asset.

Does no one understand my double talk?

One can not enter the subjectivity of collectable cars into the mix. It's irrelavent to the subject.

Years have proven diamonds to appreciate with time. The track record is there as Lawgem noted. I've never deluded myself that my diamond was a good investment. But, something I could put money towards that gave me enjoyment, could be passed on later in the years & still have a relative value. I'm sure nobody's going to be lookin for that 1987 Buick LeSabre fondly called blue velvet w/ fuzzy dice in the mirror.

Diamonds are more liquid than you think especially on the black market. If I wanted to launder some money, that's exactly where I'd put my cash into.

Nope I can't eat them. But, if the times were to go that south, my money wouldn't be worth anything either. At least I can find pleasure in viewing something pretty.

Keep in mind, I'm not missing that money at all.

Also, interesting to note, my diamond will always be listed as a static asset on my financial statement. Cars won't & are updated yearly.

 

[valeria101]

Just look at how long this thread is getting

Should we vote?

So, once the engagement, studs and solitaire pendant (the diamond staples, I guess) are done with to your satisfaction, would you still favor diamonds against similarly priced colored gems?

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 1/24/2004 1:34:51 PM valeria101 wrote:

Just look at how long this thread is getting

So, once the engagement, studs and solitaire pendant (the diamond staples, I guess) are done with to your satisfaction, would you still favor diamonds against similarly priced colored gems?----------------

I love stones of all colors. The reason I am partial to diamonds is that I've never seen another gemstone to have the refractive (right word?) capabilities that a well cut diamond has.

I love color though. That said, for me, I don't find other gemstones to be as "stand alone" as a diamond. But, most of my jewelry has colored stones that are incorporated into the design.

 

[strmrdr]

----------------
On 1/24/2004 1:34:51 PM valeria101 wrote:


So, once the engagement, studs and solitaire pendant (the diamond staples, I guess) are done with to your satisfaction, would you still favor diamonds against similarly priced colored gems?----------------

NO! and the pendants can be a colored gems also :}
Earrings aren’t in the picture.
Colored gems are where my real interest is or is it a mania?
Diamonds are ok but there is no comparison to me a nice ruby or sapphire or even a nice honey or blue zircon blow diamonds away.
Luckily for me my wifey2b likes colored gems :}

 

[winyan]

I'm unsure how to answer. I love my diamonds (especially the old cuts and warmer colors) and I love colored diamonds, (especially peachs and oranges), but I also love unusual colored gem stones, like the pad sapphire, imperial topaz, etc.

I think I'm just a magpie in which, if it glitters, I grab it!

win

 

[fire&ice]

----------------

Didn't think they mined those anymore. I have many pieces of jewelry with Natural Blue Zircons. Unfortunately, they scratch too easy. But, beautiful non the less.

 

[harleywoman]

If any of you really believe diamonds hold their value, why don't you try to sell some of your jewelry? Don't worry, you won't really, but you will get quite an education. You'll be lucky to get 20 cents on the dollar even if you bought top quality stonesat what you thought was a near wholesale price. If you don't belive me get in your car and drive around a while and try it. We see it every day.

My husband and I have helped some of our friends get better prices by remounting the stones and selling them a few at the time . It took a while, but at least they got a better price. Many of them thought they were making an investment and then got in a financial bind.

I own diamonds because I love them and they give me pleasure every day. That's the same reason I own Horses, Dogs and Harley's, which I also don't expect to give me a big financial return. They give me a pleasure return.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 1/24/2004 5:16:19 PM harleywoman wrote:

If any of you really believe diamonds hold their value, why don't you try to sell some of your jewelry? Don't worry, you won't really, but you will get quite an education. You'll be lucky to get 20 cents on the dollar --

Urr...I've *never* lost money on *any* piece of jewelry I have sold. My money is where my mouth is. Like anything, the trick is to buy right.

 

[strmrdr]

----------------
On 1/24/2004 5:57:44 PM fire&ice wrote:

----------------

Urr...I've *never* lost money on *any* piece of jewelry I have sold. My money is where my mouth is. Like anything, the trick is to buy right.

----------------

Did you take inflation into account?
Getting the same amount of money 10 years later does not a profit make.
The money isnt worth as much.
Then you have to consider what you could have gained by investing in other things.

 

[harleywoman]

I'm very sorry to strike a nerve Fire & Ice, but you are one of very few and if you are in the business then it doesn't count.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 1/24/2004 9:34:56 PM strmrdr wrote:

----------------
On 1/24/2004 5:57:44 PM fire&ice wrote:

----------------

Urr...I've *never* lost money on *any* piece of jewelry I have sold. My money is where my mouth is. Like anything, the trick is to buy right.

----------------

Did you take inflation into account?
Getting the same amount of money 10 years later does not a profit make.
The money isnt worth as much.
Then you have to consider what you could have gained by investing in other things.


----------------

Ummm bought something for $75.00 turned around and sold it the next month for $1350.00. Care to calculate that return on investment? This is not an anomaly. You simply don't get it. I never said diamonds are an investment. Just, not a bad luxury item to put *disposable* income into & enjoy at the same time.

Why are you even hanging around here if you think jewelry is such a bad place to spend money? I wouldn't be hanging around a car forum because I think *cars* are about the most ridiculous place to spend money. I only have one because it's a necessity.

Yes, Harleywomen, I have an advantage being in the business. But, I've bought things out of my area of expertise & made money on it. It's all about buying smart at the right time & venue. Then, selling at the right time and venue. While I have to concur that unless one waits perhaps 40 years, Yurman stuff is devaluted the moment you walk out of the high priced jewelry store. One, I wouldn't buy such trendy item w/o knowing I may take a bath on it if I sold it. Two, gemstones are a completely different animal. I'm sorry that your friend had to sell the jewelry for a loss & that you were able to stop the bleed w/ some creative resets.

I'm done with this thread. Read my lips - I never said diamonds or jewelry for that matter is an investment. But, diamonds have a proven track record of holding value - PERIOD. Show me *ANY* chart that says otherwise in the long term. Will that change? I don't have my crystal ball. But, looking to past history, diamonds have appreciated through the years.

 

[weemodin]

I love diamonds. Would I still love them as much if they were worth, say, 500/ct rather than the current 5k/ct? Sadly, probably not.

Although I am embarrased to admit it, I think part of our cultural obsession with diamonds (my own included) stems from the fact that they are an outward symbol of wealth and extravagance. I'm not sure anyone cares how "rare" they are -- heck, it seems doubtful that they are really that "rare" simply because every married or engaged woman I know owns at least one. If people didn't get a kick out of wearing something relatively tiny yet hugely expensive and simply liked the "look" of a diamond, we'd all wear realistic looking sims instead.

But, we've either (a) bought into the whole deBeers "A diamond is forever" myth or
(b) like the status-symbol thing.

Hey, I'm not judging here: a and b both apply to me.

However, the fact remains: women (myself included) generally love diamonds, and a man who will buy his woman diamonds despite the fact that he thinks that they're overpriced and extravagant is a keeper. Or an idiot.

I'll go with keeper.

 

[strmrdr]

"Why are you even hanging around here if you think jewelry is such a bad place to spend money?"

To learn about gemstones mostly colored ones but diamonds also.
As payment to those that help me I help others.
Isnt that how these boards are suposed to work?
They dont last long if no one gives back.

Dont get me wrong I also enjoy helping others but the hook for me is the sheer amount of knowlege that is here for me soak up.

sssssshhhhhhh dont tell anyone but I also enjoy the pictures as much as mara does. :}

Further more im going to quote something I said earlier in this thread.
I dont think I can make it clearer.
"Guys if your Lady wants a diamond well then buy her one but dont look at it as anything but a nice gift she will enjoy or you will be disapointed.
Dont use credit to buy it and pay for the more important stuff first.
In other words take it out of the entertainment budget not the household one :}"

Beyond that I dont know what else to say to make my position clearer.

 

[harleywoman]

Exactly Strmrdr! We don't need a good reason to love them. We just do. They don't have to give us a good return on our money or anything else tangible. They are just fascinating little pieces of Mother Nature that I never get tired of looking at or learning more about, along with almost all other gemstones and even plain old rocks. That's the reason I came to this forum. I really didn't want to argue or make anyone mad. I've just seen people become very disillusioned when they tried to sell their diamonds.

There is a post on this forum about this very thing over under frequently asked questions, too.

Again, I apologize if I insulted anyone.