Dog Training--What methods do you use?

[Haven]

We just adopted a new The Dog Whisperer by Paul Owens. (He''s not the same dog whisperer as the gentleman with the TV show, that''s Cesar Millan, I believe.)

I really love the techniques presented in this book, they''re very different from what I learned in training classes with my family dogs. I''m curious about what other people use. What techniques have been really successful? Or if you have little things that really work, please share.

I''m opposed to using physical intimidation as a training method, so I''m looking for positive, compassionate tools.

Thank you!

 

[diamondfan]

I think when they are pups you need to firmly establish you are the Alpha dog. Things like not letting a dog up on the furniture and making sure you enter or exit and the dog follows you is supposed to really set the message.

I also did a lot of taking toys out of my dogs mouth and taking her food while she ate, then putting it back down, so she would not get aggressive about her stuff. I have kids and my youngest was 4 and I could see him getting too near her bowl while she ate and her snapping, so I wanted to establish the groundrules. I.E., I am the master, and I can take this from you if I want to. Now, I can tell her to drop something and if she is not doing it I can stick my hand in her mouth no issue. I can also pet her and stand next to her while she eats and she is fine with it.

I am not too sure about other training issues, I think, from what my trainer said, if they respect you as their pack leader, they do not tend to misbehave.

 

[dani13]

Hi Haven,

Do you watch any of Cesar Milan''s shows? I think his traning methods are right on- I am seriously addicted to that show!!! He has several books and DVD''s out...Its all about really establishing yourself as the "pack leader," or the "Alpha dog," as DF described. I responded on your other thread, but congrats again on your new addition, and good luck!!

 

[Delster]

I think Amber posted in another thread a while ago with lots of helpful dog training tips

I believe there's been quite a bit of controversy around Cesar Milan and his methods - there's some stuff up on Wiki about that if you want to read it. I've never seen his show but we have lots of dog training shows over here and they all seem to focus on you being the conduit for all the things the dog wants (attention, food, toys, walks etc) and that you withhold those things if the dog is misbehaving. None of them emphasise ever punishing the dog for misbehaviour, rather just teaching the dog that it won't get what it wants using the undesirable behaviours.

I saw your pictures on the other thread, Bailee is gorgeous!!!

And she's a lucky doggy to have found such a loving home

 

[swingirl]

I also trained my puppy to accept all sorts of touching while he ate. I tickled his belly, touched his mouth and played with his paws. I wanted to make sure he could handle anything a child might do to him while he ate. He is not allowed on furniture accept for one chair and only when he''s invited and never alone. He has turned out to be wonderful dog that has never shown any aggression and is polite. No jumping up and no begging for food. He most likely was never an alpha dog so he was easier to train.

 

[Haven]

Thank you for all your responses.

df--I completely agree with you about establishing yourself as the pack leader. We only give her toys or let her out, take her for a walk, etc. if she first sits, and waits calmly for us to give her the toy or open the door and then we walk out first. I''m not sure about the food thing with her because she''s not a young puppy, but I''m going to do some research into how to do that with an older puppy who came from a shelter situation. I know dogs from shelters are often very overprotective of their food because of the hectic nature of a shelter.

Dani--Thank you for the congrats, we''re so happy! Thanks for the tip--we sat and watched a lot of podcasts of Millan''s shows on Youtube last night. It was really incredible how those dogs responded so quickly to him. The podcasts don''t go too far into detail about his methods,so I need to read more about his philosophy. I read through his website and I''m going to browse through his book to get a better feel for what he''s all about.

Delster--I just checked out the Wikipedia entry about Millan, that''s very interesting. Thank you for the info. I''ve always used positive training methods with our dogs (Bailee is only the fourth dog I''ve ever had, so I''m not TOO experienced with training) so I''ve definitely never used leash corrections or anything like that. I''m still such a newbie, so I know only one tiny fraction of what there is to know about training, so these things are good to read about, that''s for sure.
We think we''re lucky to have found a sweetie like Bailee!

swingirl--Wow, now two people have mentioned training while eating. I''ve never done that before, but I''ll have to look into it. My other dogs never had any issues with food, but I can see how important it is to make them comfortable with people handling their food.

Thanks for the info, ladies! I feel like I have so much to learn. Bailee is the first dog I''ve adopted as an adult, so she''s the first dog that I am completely responsible for training. She''s hubby''s first dog ever, so he''s feeling completely overwhelmed, but he''s doing a good job.

She''s really good so far, she walks very well, and we worked on "sit" yesterday. I tried to make her crate a "happy place" yesterday by hiding treats in it throughout the evening and letting her find them. She then kept going back to it to see if anything was there. She still whined and cried a bit last night, but she was fine after a while.

Thanks again for all your input.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

My training methods have changed over the years--Byron has been in obedience school since he was 9 weeks old. He doesn''t know what it means to not listen to me. He is eager to please and will stop playing with other dogs at the dog park if I give him a simple hand signal. He has his CGC, his therapy certifcation, his water rescue certifcation and does carting work--long story short, he''s incredibly well behaved.

And if I had it all to do over again, I would do it differently for one reason: Byron isn''t alpha. I immediately established myself as alpha, so instead of my dog learning and growing independently, he always looked to me to tell him what to do. Most dog behavioralists (including Ceasar Milan) will say things like "Don''t let him tell you when he has to go potty, you tell him when he goes. This establishes your position as pack leader." I believed it several years ago, but now I think it''s complete BS. Unless you have a dog who is challenging you as pack leader, there is no reason to constantly establish yourself as alpha. Research shows that in the wild all non-alpha wolves prefer to work together. You constantly hear that your dog should never see you as equal, but in the wild that is when wolves are happiest.

Also, training methods vary by dog--sometimes using positive reinforcement (solely) works, but it''s rare. It takes a dog who is very eager to please. Byron is extremely eager to please, but I still had to use a correction collar when he was about 6 months old.

I don''t have to do any training anymore, but I no longer establish myself as alpha and I communicate more with Byron--if he has to go potty, he lets me know and I''m glad for it. I found out that he likes to eat earlier than I was feeding him, so now I feed him at a different time. If he wants up on the sofa, I don''t care at all. I think we are both happier.

As for the training itself, I found that classes with multiple dogs in a populated area were best. You NEED distractions to train--it keeps them focused on you despite what''s going on around them. I did a lot of training at the dog park. I took a couple of "training with distractions" classes. Basic obedience is great, but making sure you can get their attention despite their surroundings is key.

As you get to know your (adorable!!!) new pup, you''ll know what works for her. Don''t be afraid to work WITH her, though. In my opinion, non-alpha dogs are a very different story from alpha dogs.

 

[Haven]

NEL--Thank you. That is wonderful information. I''m going to look for a group training class for Bailee. Did you take a class on your own about training with distractions? That sounds great--I think I need to be trained, as well.

Byron is a beautiful boy!

 

[Miscka]

Hey Haven! I have a new puppy too, and I tend to follow the positive reinforcement types of methods. AmberGretchen gave me this link which was really helpful.

Enjoy this time! I saw pictures, what a sweetie! I am constantly amazed at how much I love my tiny 7.5lb dog. It took me awhile actually, having only had cats the difference in responsibility level was a bit of a shock. But now I am used to it and he brightens every day of my life. It cracked me up to read the descriptions of your cats reactions to the dog...we are having some of the same issues.

Good luck!! Keep us updated!

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Training with distractions had multiple dogs and your dog had to keep his/her focus on you despite what the other dogs were doing. So if they were getting treats, your dog had to stay focused. Or if they were all playing and you called your dog, he had to come. Or if they were all at a distance and we all called our dogs, our dogs had to run to us and ignore the other dogs running to their owners. We trained in different places as well--mostly outside. Dogs tend to get a "classroom" attitude, so if you train in the same classroom every week, they know they have to listen while they''re there, but may not feel they have to listen in other places.

Our very first basic obedience/puppy socialization class was at a PetSmart, so nothing fancy. I just wanted a group class in an active environment and PetSmart fit the bill. Our later obedience classes took place at a community center--private group lesssons seemed easy to come by.

We did have on private lesson--we called a dog behavioralist because Byron started barking when he got a little older and we wanted somebody to come to our home so that we could work on what to do when somebody rang the door bell (to stop the barking), so that made more sense for us. Private lessons are good for issues you''re having in the home and can''t fix yourself.

Can''t wait for more pics!!!

 

[swingirl]

What DO you do when they go nuts at the sound of the doorbell???

 

[diamondfan]

I agree that if your dog is not trying to be the Alpha, you do not need to reassert it all of the time, but initially it is helpful to do so.

My trainer also said they can go on your furniture if you do not mind, when they are older, but you must invite them to do it. Some dogs are way more alpha from the get go and some are just not. Maya has never really been. I had a chance to get her cousin, a male, but was concerned for him to come into the house and try to be Alpha, as Maya would certainly let him, being that she is quite submissive. I think if your dog shows the tendency to be more submissive, you do not need to be so strong in asserting yourself, but you have to see the temperament as you go along.

 

[Deelight]

For our pup we took him to puppy preschool to socialise him and get him beginner training and used training methods from the book "Who''s the Boss" he was good boy and was fairly well trained, he listened to us but he was still a playful pup. He was trained on hand and verbal commands we used lots of positive reinforcement with cuddles, treats and such but when he was doing something wrong we would make the "arh" (short loud sound) sound loudly to make him stop and once he stopped it was always lots of cuddles and positive talk like good boy, that worked for us he behaved 99% of the time .

From when we got him we trained him to eat on command and only to take food when his secret command word (something not used in everyday speech) was spoken, he would sit there before his bowl and would not touch it even if we walked away we could even say fake words and he still wouldn''t eat his food. When I was younger we had someone bait our dogs and while this method is not 100% effective it gave me piece of mind that he would not take food from others.

I think it is also really important to socialse dogs from a young age so if you also have off leash puppy parks around they are a great way to help socialse your puppy as well, ours loved it and you meet some really wonderful animal loving people . It is also fun to play with all the other pups around there as well .

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 7/31/2008 6:47:09 PM
Author: swingirl
What DO you do when they go nuts at the sound of the doorbell???

Haha, lots of practice! We have a "quiet" command, which is helpful, but he was ignoring it when the bell rang. What we found to work was putting him in a dominant down first and then giving him the quiet command. Apparently putting him in the down keeps his focus on me, then he''ll listen when I say "quiet". He really wants to get up and greet whomever comes to the door, so keeping him in a down until I release him keeps him in a "training" frame of mind. For practice D would ring the doorbell randomly while I was home so Byron would think somebody was at the door. That gullible dog!!

I also agree with Deelight that working on food commands is VERY handy. Giving them a command so they know what they can eat is helpful so they won''t lick random children''s ice cream cones or try to eat things off of the table.

Once you get to know your pup''s personality even better you''ll know exactly what works and doesn''t work for her--training is such a tailored process and every dog is different! I hope you''re able to have fun with it, though!

 

[AmberGretchen]

I''m sorry I am just now seeing this thread and don''t have time to write a really detailed response (right in the middle of moving) but, in a nutshell, I volunteer training dogs for my local shelter and have seen by FAR the best success rates with positive reinforcement training. Cesar Milan''s methods work for him, but I guarantee they are not a long-term fix nor are they safe for the average dog owner to use at home.

This link is a great starting place - it has free, high-quality information about dog training for a variety of common issues.

I also highly recommend getting Bailee into a training class ASAP - they are never too young. Look for someone that uses positive reinforcement only, and preferably who teaches clicker training - it will make your life much easier.