Who watched Mad Men? *spoilers*

[Sky56]

I love the show! I'll read the thread later, avoiding spoilers.

 

[TC1987]

Definitely an interesting episode last night. One more episode left this year. And then we must wait for the second half of Season 6 in 2015?! Matt Weiner is torturing us.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Good episode, but i was so afraid they would go over the top with Peggy and Don. I kept saying, Oh, they can't do it!. Thank Goodness, they didn't. LOL

I feel the other episodes in this season just were thrown in for no reason. I didn't like his wife in the hippy role in LA. Just didn't fit her character, although I guess when you are in a different environment, you can change.

They brought Don down, which he needed. He put his relationship with his daughter on new footing, and hes learning some humility.
I think they are improving Don, but he will still end up the genius ad man. No suicide for Don.

The divorce from wife number 1 looks very smart at this point. Megan is a better fit.

Annette

 

[athenaworth]

I'm bumping this for my fellow MM fans. What did everyone think of the most recent episode? I haven't read up on a lot of it but man talk about some foreshadowing. I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to take a sick day the Monday after the last episode because I'll be so sad. :-/

 

[missy]

I'm bumping this for my fellow MM fans. What did everyone think of the most recent episode? I haven't read up on a lot of it but man talk about some foreshadowing. I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to take a sick day the Monday after the last episode because I'll be so sad. :-/

Loved the first episode this season and I will be so sad when it is all over too.

They sure are letting Don fall apart in every way. Style wise (and it's the 70's now!) as well as psychologically. And I LOVE the Peggy Lee song "Is That All There Is" that was playing during the episode. Very appropriate. It definitely is feeling like the beginning of the end and I think it will be a bumpy, enjoyable but very sad ride.

 

[athenaworth]

I'm bumping this for my fellow MM fans. What did everyone think of the most recent episode? I haven't read up on a lot of it but man talk about some foreshadowing. I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to take a sick day the Monday after the last episode because I'll be so sad. :-/

Loved the first episode this season and I will be so sad when it is all over too.

They sure are letting Don fall apart in every way. Style wise (and it's the 70's now!) as well as psychologically. And I LOVE the Peggy Lee song "Is That All There Is" that was playing during the episode. Very appropriate. It definitely is feeling like the beginning of the end and I think it will be a bumpy, enjoyable but very sad ride.

Oh man the song was so haunting, wasn't it?

It was all so very sad. Everyone washed up, doing the same thing over and over again with their lives. I love that Pete was SO Pete complaining about how much money he had.

What'd you think of Ken's "recovery?" I was predicting he was going to go postal.

 

[missy]

I'm bumping this for my fellow MM fans. What did everyone think of the most recent episode? I haven't read up on a lot of it but man talk about some foreshadowing. I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to take a sick day the Monday after the last episode because I'll be so sad. :-/

Loved the first episode this season and I will be so sad when it is all over too.

They sure are letting Don fall apart in every way. Style wise (and it's the 70's now!) as well as psychologically. And I LOVE the Peggy Lee song "Is That All There Is" that was playing during the episode. Very appropriate. It definitely is feeling like the beginning of the end and I think it will be a bumpy, enjoyable but very sad ride.

Oh man the song was so haunting, wasn't it?

It was all so very sad. Everyone washed up, doing the same thing over and over again with their lives. I love that Pete was SO Pete complaining about how much money he had.

What'd you think of Ken's "recovery?" I was predicting he was going to go postal.

I felt disappointed. He had the chance to get out of the "rat race" but instead went back in full force. It did feel like sweet justice though to be their client now and I loved what he said. When asked if he was going to fire them now he said oh no, much worse. I am going to be your client and I will be impossible...or something to that effect. Loved it haha. But a big part of me wished he took this chance, a sign almost if you believe in those and I do, to follow his passion in life. Instead of the soulless work they do. JMO.

A storyline I felt disturbing and I think it is because we have not come as far as we should have with regards to this is the sexual harassment Joan was dealing with and Peggy's seeming indifference or uncaring attitude. They are all damaged in some way but I guess just like we are in real life. I felt sad as I watched but enjoyed the episode nonetheless. Bittersweet as I think it will be till the end and of course that will be the "final disappointment".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l8erdPprSc

"Is That All There Is?"
(originally by Dan Daniels)

I remember when I was a very little girl, our house caught on fire.
I'll never forget the look on my father's face as he gathered me up
In his arms and raced through the burning building out to the pavement.
I stood there shivering in my pajamas and watched the whole world go up in flames.
And when it was all over I said to myself,
"Is that all there is to a fire?"

Is that all there is?
Is that all there is?
If that's all there is my friends
Then let's keep dancing
Let's break out the booze and have a ball
If that's all there is

And when I was 12 years old, my daddy took me to a circus.
"The Greatest Show On Earth."
There were clowns and elephants and dancing bears.
And a beautiful lady in pink tights flew high above our heads.
And as I sat there watching, I had the feeling that something was missing.
I don't know what, but when it was over,
I said to myself,
"Is that all there is to a circus?"

Is that all there is?
Is that all there is?
If that's all there is my friends
Then let's keep dancing
Let's break out the booze and have a ball
If that's all there is

And then I fell in love, with the most wonderful boy in the world.
We would take long walks by the river
Or just sit for hours gazing into each other's eyes.
We were so very much in love.
Then one day, he went away and I thought I'd die.
But I didn't.
And when I didn't I said to myself,
"Is that all there is to love?"

Is that all there is?
Is that all there is?
If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep-

I know what you must be saying to yourselves.
"If that's the way she feels about it why doesn't she just end it all?"
Oh, no, not me.
I'm in no hurry for that final disappointment.
'Cause I know just as well as I'm standing here talking to you,
That when that final moment comes and I'm breathing my last breath
I'll be saying to myself-

Is that all there is?
Is that all there is?
If that's all there is my friends
Then let's keep dancing
Let's break out the booze and have a ball
If that's all there is

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Peggy carried on even thru all the insults and disrespect the men showed her. Joan thought that now that she was a partner of sorts she was entitled to more respect. Men really did do this and the behavior was accepted, and if you wanted to deal with men in higher positions you had to turn the conversation, as Peggy did, back to the topic at hand. Peggy did a great job, which is why she has her position in the company. Given what Joan did to advance, I'd give a rah to Peggy for how she handled the situation.

Its funny, I don't see this as a sad picture. I actually think they are wrapping it up to be palatable for the audience. Young mens dreams are often unfulfilled and thru time dreams change.. Ken got his revenge, although he must be hurt.

I see Don as finding himself, at least a bit before the series ends. I don't see he will change that much. He has always used women as a way to mollify himself.

Annette

 

[rainydaze]

Hi,

Peggy carried on even thru all the insults and disrespect the men showed her. Joan thought that now that she was a partner of sorts she was entitled to more respect. Men really did do this and the behavior was accepted, and if you wanted to deal with men in higher positions you had to turn the conversation, as Peggy did, back to the topic at hand. Peggy did a great job, which is why she has her position in the company. Given what Joan did to advance, I'd give a rah to Peggy for how she handled the situation

Annette

This was my mostly my take on it, too. At first. I kept waiting for Peggy to finally lay into them, in that way that only she can. I was disappointed that she didn't... and then shocked when she made the comment to Joan to the effect of "...what do you expect when you dress that way." I did not see that coming. It changed my interpretation of how she handled the meeting. Obviously she held Joan responsible for their behavior, or at least partly. She bought into excusing the mens' behavior and blamed the woman - yuck. I thought she was better than that. And a better friend to Joan. Is it jealousy? Over Joan's part in the company? And her money?

It made me think about Joan's appearance, something the show has given me pause to do before as well. She's got serious curves such that no matter what, she can't hide 'em. Her clothes are totally appropriate and professional (stylish, quality and feminine, yes, but that crosses no lines); the same clothes on a less curvy woman wouldn't read as sexy. Her hair is a traditional, professional style. Her makeup is neither inappropriate nor excessive. She carries herself with poise and professionalism.

So yeah, Peggy has some other axe to grind and went for the hot button instead. Right?

 

[missy]

Annette, I find Mad Men to be a poignant look at life. Searching for love and happiness but filled with sadness and disappointment with unfulfilled dreams like life in general.

And no IMO Peggy did not handle it well and I wouldn't give her any kudos. She is filled with self doubt, pain and a bit lost herself. She's still searching for love, happiness and fun but she is still filled with guilt (the pregnancy and her baby) and anger(never worked through her issues with Pete).

Joan is also filled with self doubt and self hate and she is finally realizing she has to respect herself to be able to move forward and have a good life. A happy life that she (hopefully is finally realizing she) deserves.

The haunting Peggy Lee song was perfect for the first episode this season. If the characters can find their passion in life in love and work perhaps there will be a different song playing throughout the final episode...

Hi,

Peggy carried on even thru all the insults and disrespect the men showed her. Joan thought that now that she was a partner of sorts she was entitled to more respect. Men really did do this and the behavior was accepted, and if you wanted to deal with men in higher positions you had to turn the conversation, as Peggy did, back to the topic at hand. Peggy did a great job, which is why she has her position in the company. Given what Joan did to advance, I'd give a rah to Peggy for how she handled the situation

Annette

This was my mostly my take on it, too. At first. I kept waiting for Peggy to finally lay into them, in that way that only she can. I was disappointed that she didn't... and then shocked when she made the comment to Joan to the effect of "...what do you expect when you dress that way." I did not see that coming. It changed my interpretation of how she handled the meeting. Obviously she held Joan responsible for their behavior, or at least partly. She bought into excusing the mens' behavior and blamed the woman - yuck. I thought she was better than that. And a better friend to Joan. Is it jealousy? Over Joan's part in the company? And her money?

It made me think about Joan's appearance, something the show has given me pause to do before as well. She's got serious curves such that no matter what, she can't hide 'em. Her clothes are totally appropriate and professional (stylish, quality and feminine, yes, but that crosses no lines); the same clothes on a less curvy woman wouldn't read as sexy. Her hair is a traditional, professional style. Her makeup is neither inappropriate nor excessive. She carries herself with poise and professionalism.

So yeah, Peggy has some other axe to grind and went for the hot button instead. Right?

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I think the fact that Peggy told Joan she was dressing too provocatively, was something that might have been said. Joan can't help her body and I agree that Joan does not dress provocatively, and I do think Peggy is jealous of Joans position in the company now. She says something like, "with all the money you've got...." But it doesn't mean they aren't friends. After all, Joan didn't speak up for herself either.

Missy-- If I thought these were characters as you have portrayed them, I would not be watching. I don't see them as so sad and unhappy, and hating themselves. They have problems.
This portrays a time when advancements for women, blacks,were few and far between. You can see the beginnings of change.

I often tell one of my nieces that I get annoyed at Downton Abbey, because I find those characters(some) to be so upper class stereotyped. She calmly explains that this was the way it was and I should just look at that way. So I try not be critical of some of those people. So, I say, Mad Men, the beginning of the advertising mania, is a bit of history, just like Downton .

I hope no harm comes to any of them in the ending.

Annette

 

[missy]

Annette, I hope for the same...that we are left with a happy ending. My interpretation however is a darker one than yours but I share your same hope for their "future"....without hope we are all lost.

 

[Maria D]

Here's my take on it:

This isn't the first time we've seen the Joan/Peggy conflict displayed in an elevator scene. The other time was after Peggy fired Joey for harassing Joan with sexual cartoons posted around the office. Peggy is proud of herself for handling the situation and thinks Joan will be grateful. Joan is far from it! She feels she already handled it and all Peggy has done is proven that Joan is powerless and that she (Peggy) is a "humorless bitch."

Joan and Peggy represent the changing power of women in this period of time. Joan derives her power from a center of total womanhood, including her sexuality. There was a scene way back when Peggy was still a secretary where Joan tells her that if she wants to be taken seriously, she's got to stop dressing like a little girl. Joan feels she is taken seriously by dressing like a grown-up woman, showing off her womanly curves.

Peggy's power comes from becoming "one of the guys." When Stan tries to intimidate and belittle her by looking at girlie mags when they are supposed to be working, saying that she's uptight and ashamed of her body, Peggy hits back by undressing and getting to work. She does it without any sexual overtones, calling him out as pretending to be free and liberated when in reality he's just lazy and uncreative. She taunts *him* into stripping down, but she's not interested in sex - just in getting some work done.

So now it's 1970 with both Joan and Peg representing the continuing conflict of women working in a man's world. Joan is still dressing to show off her curves and men are still blatantly reacting to that. Is this right? No, but it's still a man's world and they can do whatever they want, and Peggy knows this. She's irritated that Joan, while a partner, still doesn't know that to make it in this world you've got to turn off the femininity and act more like a man. "You're filthy rich. You can do whatever you want," says Peggy. As in, "I'm not rich, I can't do whatever I want, I need to get this account, and I don't need you acting all irritated when the guys show their appreciation for the very attributes you are showing off."

Is Joan entitled to dress however she wants (and I would add have a general "sexy posture") and still have men take her seriously? In an ideal world, sure. But not in 1970 and I would say not even in 2015.

 

[missy]

LOL I loved it when Joan as she was exiting the elevator after that uncomfortable meeting with those men said "I want to burn this place down". And after that meeting I was right there with her. That's one way to break the barriers.

 

[athenaworth]

Finished this week's episode (I'm slow). Thoughts:

* Diana is boring and the actress who plays her bugs me. I'm annoyed that the writers would spend quality time on this story line.
* I want to be Mimi Rogers. Could she have looked any more flawless?
* I love Peggy and Stan together, always have. They're like siblings annoying and one-upping each other.
* Megan's mom is awful. Her whole family is. I still don't really understand what it was that Don did to Megan that was so horrible.
* $1 million Don? Really?

I'm seeing the beginning of the end here. Don's giving everything up. I am so afraid that the final scene will be him throwing himself off the balcony of his apartment, and with the way he's unloading, he probably will.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I agree that they are tying up loose ends. Don is busy making the kids a drink in his first wife's kitchen, offering her husband a drink as well. He turns, looks at the family scene, and again turns away. I see it as acceptance for all of them.

I think Megan thought that Don should support her in her career by moving to California, which he declined to do and I guess she can now blame him for her having a less than brilliant career. The million shows hes tired of the fight.

I am a Peggy fan and I see how well she handled the superstar woman who tried to seduce both she and Stan to get ahead. Stan looks as if he appreciates his partner more after Peggy exposed her for what she was. She also viewing herself as the decision maker.(I don't know about Pete)

But, in conclusion, I felt much better after this episode, lest the doomsayers would claim victory if Don harms himself. Here what I thought. When an author writes an ending to a book he must be mindful that the ending is satisfying to the reader. This is not to say it must be a happy ending, but a satisfying one that makes the reader feel it was worth the read. I can't imagine that after 7 seasons they would do away with the lead character. To me, it would not worth having watched all these seasons if they do that. I will have a fit of temper if they do. Still, its very enjoyable to me. Well, see. I bet Don finds another woman.

Annette

 

[athenaworth]

Well? What'd we all think of the end? I personally loved it and LOVED Joan's ending (the best part, IMHO).

 

[missy]

I loved the ending too. Go Joan!

I loved the way they ended Don's storyline too. Back at McCann-Erickson and the creator of that coke commercial. I'm old enough that I remember that commercial when it first aired and it is a catchy tune even today.

Sad about Betty though but that's true to life too so makes it more real. So even though I'm sad about it somehow it was more satisfying than if everything was tied up in neat little happy packages. It was a good mix I think.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi All,

As the English might say, "Brilliant ending my dear". I read that the producer or writer told everyone that if they didn't like the ending, please stay away from him at the after party. I was really happy with it.

I loved that Joan asked Peggy to be her partner, showing that they were good friends, even if they viewed some things differently.

I don't think they could have done a better job. I, of course hadn't realized that MCCann/Erickson actually did make the commercial for coke until I read it just now. It makes me smile.

Athena worth, did you have your baby yet. Congratulations if you did. What did you have? And what did you name the gorgeous little thing.


Annette