Weddings and Drama

[ame]

I love watching wedding TV-Dress shows, Bridezillas, Four Weddings, etc. But I do not like going to weddings. I always fret about the gift$$. How much do you spend on a gift of your dear friend's daughter who you rarely see and not piss off your friend and lose the friendhip? The NY/NJ pay for the dinner plate range is the same where I live but frankly that is expensive-$175-350 depending on venue. My husband hates to attend them and is uber picky about the food. He hates to dance and always wants to go home mid dinner (buffet) or after dinner service is complete. We never know anyone there except for the parents (one side) and get stuck at a crappy table. Of course relatives make the events worse due to personalities and alcohol.

I can't believe this "cover your plate" thing! This seems so foreign to me... So if a bride and groom throw a really extravagant wedding the guests are expected to help them recoup what they've spent?!? That is absurd! It's the couple's choice and they are HOSTING the party. That doesn't seem like hosting to me at all!

YUP! This is my problem with it.

So say my best friend is getting married. At a barn and does a BBQ buffet an no alcohol. Inexpensive and lovely.

And then say my other friend, who I'm not nearly as close to, is getting married and chooses to do a fancy wedding at some venue in New York with a view of the river.

I'm really supposed to gift MORE to the second couple than the first?

Nope. Nope. Nope.

I HATE cover your plate. It means we have to dish out $300-400 for each wedding we go to as a couple just for the gift! That doesn't count the shower, transportation, the bachelor party (DH is constantly being asked to be in the weddings)!!!

I love weddings but unless it is for DH's immediate family I refuse to do cover your plate.

100%. I base my gifts off of how close I am to the couple, not how much they spent on their wedding. Luckily 'cover your plate" doesn't seem to have a foothold on the west coast. I find it offensive and totally tacky to ask guests to pay for the wedding. It makes me think that the couple must be having a far more expensive wedding than they can really afford if they're asking the guests to repay the hosts for the party.

Same. I will not "cover my plate" if I am not close to you. And I can usually tell if someone invited me just to gift grab.

 

[Tekate]

I liked weddings in the 70s as they were fun and you (mostly) got free booze.

Today, meh. First the weddings are like Hollywood productions, themes, barns, signature drinks, if I go to another wedding with the bride having a strapless dress I will get sick.. Isn't there any imagination? to me strapless dresses are cheap and I know that will offend some, but to me they don't look sophisticated, or classy, just boob popping show offs... and mermaid dresses UGH.. swear most of these girls today walk like Morticia Adams, I do not expect the Woodstock look that I had (daisy's in our hair, dotted swiss, a sweet necklace) but these girls look like cotton candy.. there are truly some beautiful dresses that don't make girls arms look fat because strapless dresses to little except for the averagely boobed and size 6 and under otherwise it makes a girl look hefty)... I've been to three barn weddings this year and I'm tired of the because they are not air conditioned, one in Austin TX, one in Erie, PA and one in Charlottesville, VA.. aren't photo booths fun! (no)... aren't masks just so cute (no).. etc.. I sound like an old wanker and I'm truly not but it's like a reality TV show..

I went to a lovely wedding in Poughkeepsie NY recently that was so wonderful.. a violinist, flutist, then later in the evening out came the DJ, there was no sit down meal, just oodles of hand foods, chocolate stations, roast beef station, turkey station, hummus, and the cake.. it was beautiful, albeit it was small (75 people), her dress was gorgeous, off the shoulder beautiful lace, sweetheart neck.. it was so sophisticated, she didn't look at all like my mothers old curtin's in the 60's or a mummy wrap..

So I AM a wanker, but I wish girls/guys would forget the reality TV look and go for something classically beautiful.. so many girls just look like cotton candy...

and as to going to weddings, I leave after food as I've been to so many the all end the same, young people singing and old people sitting.

 

[tuffyluvr]

I liked weddings in the 70s as they were fun and you (mostly) got free booze.

Today, meh. First the weddings are like Hollywood productions, themes, barns, signature drinks, if I go to another wedding with the bride having a strapless dress I will get sick.. Isn't there any imagination? to me strapless dresses are cheap and I know that will offend some, but to me they don't look sophisticated, or classy, just boob popping show offs... and mermaid dresses UGH.. swear most of these girls today walk like Morticia Adams, I do not expect the Woodstock look that I had (daisy's in our hair, dotted swiss, a sweet necklace) but these girls look like cotton candy.. there are truly some beautiful dresses that don't make girls arms look fat because strapless dresses to little except for the averagely boobed and size 6 and under otherwise it makes a girl look hefty)... I've been to three barn weddings this year and I'm tired of the because they are not air conditioned, one in Austin TX, one in Erie, PA and one in Charlottesville, VA.. aren't photo booths fun! (no)... aren't masks just so cute (no).. etc.. I sound like an old wanker and I'm truly not but it's like a reality TV show..

I went to a lovely wedding in Poughkeepsie NY recently that was so wonderful.. a violinist, flutist, then later in the evening out came the DJ, there was no sit down meal, just oodles of hand foods, chocolate stations, roast beef station, turkey station, hummus, and the cake.. it was beautiful, albeit it was small (75 people), her dress was gorgeous, off the shoulder beautiful lace, sweetheart neck.. it was so sophisticated, she didn't look at all like my mothers old curtin's in the 60's or a mummy wrap..

So I AM a wanker, but I wish girls/guys would forget the reality TV look and go for something classically beautiful.. so many girls just look like cotton candy...

and as to going to weddings, I leave after food as I've been to so many the all end the same, young people singing and old people sitting.

Oh man, you would have hated my wedding and my dress! My wedding was outdoors in the desert (it was very casual and not "themed" though), and I wore a strapless lace mermaid-style dress. I was totally anti-strapless dressed, and envisioned wearing an ethereal, bohemian 60s/70s inspired dress. I adore empire waists and flowing bell sleeves, but it turned out that those styles did absolutely nothing for my figure and the exact dress that I thought I would never wear was what looked really great on my shape. I also had a very small budget for a dress. It would have been a very different choice if I had a $6,000 budget for a Jenny Packham dress, but that just wasn't in the cards!

It does hurt my feelings that people might think that my dress choice was contrived and dated, but ultimately it was what flattered me the most and I can't go back and change it, so c'est la vie!

 

[kenny]

Thanks telephone, but I wouldn't expect payment.
But it is a great idea to communicate to get expectations in sync.

I'll also make it clear I'm not an experience wedding photographer so I'll just do my best and they get whatever they get.
They also need to speak their requests and expectations and not just assume that "I just should KNOW".
I'll do my best, and if they are not on board with that then it's best they hire a pro.

I think many priests don't allow photographers anywhere near the heart of the ceremony.

Kenny,

Have them look at wedding pictures online. Email you the shots they really want so you have some to try to remember. Maybe even have a list with you.
(stuff like shoes, rings together, dress, flowers, etc)

Great idea!
Thanks.

I obviously have no clue what the usual/standard/customary/expected wedding pics are.
I'm more of a candid shooter.
I love to capture moments.
Decades ago I did this everywhere.
Nobody objected.
Today everyone is all sensitive about someone shooting them with a nice camera (though using a smartphone is somehow okay) ... as if I'm going to sell their pic to TMZ because they have crows feet now, or going to photoshop their head onto nude people and sell their pics and their soul and their identity online.

 

[packrat]

I hate having my picture taken-hate it. I never used to, but I've been unhappy w/my appearance for the last several years so what I have now are a bunch of me giving the camera a dirty look, flipping it off, or my hand in front of my face. When we got married, I enjoyed picture taking-but my favorite pictures were the ones I didn't know were being taken, or that I wasn't ready for the camera. A random picture of me putting my makeup on, in jeans and a plaid shirt, w/my hair done and veil on-we were talking and I happened to glance at my friend in the mirror as she took it-and it's one of my favorite pictures ever. I'd love to have a "moment" taker.

 

[iLander]

iLander...I can't even imagine how terrible your situation was! How dare they accuse you of faking being sick!!! Oh my GOSH!!!

I will have to say that we don't go to a lot of weddings, mostly just closest friends and family. In all these years, I can only think of one divorce. I do enjoy them because we primarily only go to ones of people who we love. I am happy to say I can't think of any drama!

I will say that weddings were simpler back in the day. People didn't necessarily spend exorbitant amounts on ONE DAY. I think that is pretty crazy especially when people go into debt for a wedding.

Thanks, diamond seeker (and everyone else who expressed support), this incident has tainted our relationship with DS and DIL, I'm not sure they quite understand how much. It's been 5 years and we have tried to "normalize" relations with them, but it still casts a shadow. I have made quite a lot of effort since then, but only because it upsets DH so much. He's a strong family man, and rifts upset him. If it were up to me, I wouldn't be speaking to either one of them. Still.

 

[iLander]

Just to be clear, I'm not an introvert at all. I'm the loud lady in the corner who's enjoying sangria (wine + fruit +ice + sugar! yum!) and talking too loud and probably teasing you.

So that's not my problem.

My problem is when I don't have a place to sit. (Thank you telephone89 for clearing up my confusion ) And it's no fun to projectile vomit. So the last few have been bummers.

But the dread is that weddings are so emotionally charged, with so many moving parts that can go wrong, and so many people ready to freak at the least little thing. So, yeah, I worry in advance.

If I had gotten sick at an ordinary lunch and had to leave early no one would care. But since it was a WEDDING meal, offense was taken, accusations of faking it were made, drama ensued. So, yeah.

No thank you.

First of all, I love sangria too! We served it at our wedding because I love it so much. I make mine with lemonade concentrate and sparkling water. In the summer I do it with white wine and nectarines and it is probably my favorite drink ever!

Secondly, your experience with losing your table and chair sounds awful! But the situation with your son and DIL sounds atrocious! You've really been burned with some terrible weddings. I don't blame you for not liking them! I hope you (or anyone else) didn't think that because I said I am super extroverted I would innately like weddings, and only introverts would dislike them--that's totally not what I meant. I just meant that I love big parties and a rarely turn down an invite. I don't think being an introvert/extrovert has any bearing on whether you would enjoy going to weddings or not--I just think that as an extrovert I'm probably more likely to accept the invitation. If I had bad experiences like yours I probably wouldn't love weddings so much!!!

Don't worry, tuffy, I knew what you meant.

I was mostly responding to Kenny and his introvert/extrovert post.

And you look stunning in your dress, BTW. Just lovely.

 

[iLander]

Great idea!
Thanks.

I obviously have no clue what the usual/standard/customary/expected wedding pics are.
I'm more of a candid shooter.
I love to capture moments.
Decades ago I did this everywhere.
Nobody objected.
Today everyone is all sensitive about someone shooting them with a nice camera (though using a smartphone is somehow okay) ... as if I'm going to sell their pic to TMZ because they have crows feet now, or going to photoshop their head onto nude people and sell their pics and their soul and their identity online.

Oh, Kenny. Have you learned nothing from this thread? Emotions run HIGH at weddings, and if you aren't INTENSELY careful about this, it could bite you on the butt (and not in a good way ).

I suggest having a couple of other people also take pictures. Or, better yet, get those disposable wedding cameras at Target or Amazon and pass them out to a bunch of guests. Maybe even one per table.

That way, if you pics don't turn out for some reason, you're covered at least a little.

This is a once-in-a-lifetime, irreplaceable event, and pictures will be the only tangible proof it happened. If your pics aren't fantastic, you're in deep doodoo. At DS's wedding, the bride's brother-in-law took pics. When we (eventually) saw the wedding album, we noticed not one pic of our side of the family in the whole album. Nothing of sister of the groom, father of the groom, not a single thing. I was stunned and hurt (still am). I guess they were all removed due to the grudge they had against me? But then again, I don't recall being asked to pose for the brother-in-law either.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

ILander,

A friends daughter married a guy whose Mother has MS and is in a wheelchair. My friend tried to provide her with special treatment like having the hairdresser fix her hair in the hotel room prior to the wedding. The grooms Mom became very tired and didn't participate in some of the festivities. My friend accused the mother of the very same thing your dIL and DS did, and that is of wanting all the attention. My friend was very upset at this poor woman and also accused her of not wanting her son to marry, as he was her main help.
Unbelievable!

This whole business of people accusing an individual of pretending to be sick for attention is something I get quite angry about.I have seen many such examples in my lifetime and put it down to the fact that when people are sick we are supposed to help. But, if we deny they are sick, we don't have the inconveniences that comes with sickness-large or small.

Once I was in so much pain I was screaming. My SIL told me and my 84 yr old mother I was faking it. My brother supported my SIL. They asked me to leave their home in England. I had 3 major surgeries when I got home, suffered greatly on the plane, and havent talked to them in 20 yrs. My mother died before I could tell her I was not faking. She wrote a letter to my son saying how upset she was to find that I would fake cancer. It still blows my mind.

Sickness is hard for people to understand. I'm really sorry you had to experience this.

Annette

 

[iLander]

smitcompton: That's all just beyond horrible. I'm so sad that your family treated you so poorly. Part of me thought that DS's behavior can be attributed to immaturity, but your mother had no excuse. What you said about acknowledgment of illness meaning they would have to take responsibility hit a chord with me; that sounds 100% correct. I think in your family's case, they obviously had problems with this, I know my DS does. It's really remarkable, isn't it? How crappy people can be.

Your friend seems pretty self-centered too. It's amazing how some people think the world revolves around them.

I'm sorry you went through that. I can only imagine how awful it was going through cancer, and then seeing that letter. Ridiculous, nasty bag of cats (sorry, but that's how I see it) to say that to your son.

Awful. Just awful.

 

[D_]

There are attention ho's out there unfortunately.
iLander, I'm sorry your DS & DIL lumped you into that category.
It is said that the way people judge/see other people is a reflection of their own self.
So if they accuse you of being an attention ho, hmm... it may say more about them than about you - in that particular instance/event.
I can see (though saddened too) with the me me me culture which usually becomes much much more pronounced/culminates at weddings - only to get divorced a few years down the road to boot.

It is said that people get married with the view of making it last forever, sometimes I wonder if there is a part in people's mind that don't mind to get divorced so they can get remarried (and go through weddings again!) I doubt it - but makes me wonder nonetheless (if people can/want to be brutally honest with themselves).

And I'd also be interested to hear some guys being accused of attention ho's as well to balance the scale a bit.
I know they're out there

 

[ennui]

When DH and I got married, we went to Vegas and got married in a really nice chapel. ... My BIL and his fiancé decided to get married the next day at the same chapel. Then my new SIL's father and his long-time gf snuck off and got married later that night.

I love this story. *sniffle*

 

[D_]

Let’s set that divorce statistic straight.

It’s one of my pet peeves because it’s so depressing and wasn’t presented properly when the study first came out. So I researched it at the time. Here’s the deal, from the original study:

In any given year, let’s say 100 couples get married.

During that same year, 50 couples will file for divorce.

BUT 50 couples from the previous year will stay married. And 50 from the year before that. And 50 from the year before that. And so on, and so on.

SO, half the marriages do Not actually end in divorce.

In reality, 80% of the people in the US, are married by age 40.

Hi iLander,

I am wondering if you could enlighten me on the math of this.
Here's my understanding:
Let's say in 2015, 100 couples get married, 50 couples (from past years?) will file for a divorce.
In 2014, the same thing happened, and the year before and the year before.
So, the rate of replenishment is still the same, 50%.
80% of people are married by age of 40 IF marriages in the past has divorce rate lower than 50%.
But if this trend continues, then over long period of time, the divorce rate will be, well, 50% because for every 100 married couple, 50 others will get divorced.

 

[iLander]

D

Let's start from 2000

2000: 100 marriages performed, 50 divorces leaves 50 married
2001: 100 marriages performed, 50 divorces 50 marriages carried forward from 2000 100 married
2002: 100 marriages performed, 50 divorces 50 marriages carried forward from 2001 150 married
2003: 100 marriages performed, 50 divorces 50 marriages carried forward from 2002 200 married (against the 50 divorces of that year)
2004, etc. The marriages accumulate.

You have to carry forward the remaining marriages from previous years, they are not just eliminated that year, unless you are Only counting that year. Which is what bugs me about the statistic, it only counts one year and everyone misquotes it as "half OF ALL marriages end in divorce". Which is not correct.

Here's a New York Times article that explains it

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/19/health/divorce-rate-its-not-as-high-as-you-think.html

EXCERPT: How many American marriages end in divorce? One in two, if you believe the statistic endlessly repeated in news media reports, academic papers and campaign speeches.

The figure is based on a simple -- and flawed -- calculation: the annual marriage rate per 1,000 people compared with the annual divorce rate. In 2003, for example, the most recent year for which data is available, there were 7.5 marriages per 1,000 people and 3.8 divorces, according to the National Center for Health Statistics.

But researchers say that this is misleading because the people who are divorcing in any given year are not the same as those who are marrying, and that the statistic is virtually useless in understanding divorce rates. In fact, they say, studies find that the divorce rate in the United States has never reached one in every two marriages, and new research suggests that, with rates now declining, it probably never will.

 

[Maria D]

I've read that another thing that skews our perception about that statistic is that we tend to think of percent of people, not marriages. So it sounds like 50% of all *people* will end up being divorced, rather than 50% of all marriages ending in divorce. But, data reveals that many people have multiple divorces so while they are contributing to the divorce rate, they are not increasing the number of people who have divorced.

 

[OreoRosies86]

The thought of walking down an aisle fills me with terror. Some people really seem to thrive on the attention, like brides who sing (mic in hand!) their way to the groom.

No no no nope nope nope...

 

[Tekate]

Your wedding is beautiful.. I think I should have prefaced my comments with MY KID.. I would like my son (should he EVER get engged to his g/f of 8 YEARS!) you looked beautiful.. I am sincerely happy for you Tuffyluvr and I wish you much happiness and peace in life.. remember I am probably your grandmas age

peace to you and happiness!

I liked weddings in the 70s as they were fun and you (mostly) got free booze.

Today, meh. First the weddings are like Hollywood productions, themes, barns, signature drinks, if I go to another wedding with the bride having a strapless dress I will get sick.. Isn't there any imagination? to me strapless dresses are cheap and I know that will offend some, but to me they don't look sophisticated, or classy, just boob popping show offs... and mermaid dresses UGH.. swear most of these girls today walk like Morticia Adams, I do not expect the Woodstock look that I had (daisy's in our hair, dotted swiss, a sweet necklace) but these girls look like cotton candy.. there are truly some beautiful dresses that don't make girls arms look fat because strapless dresses to little except for the averagely boobed and size 6 and under otherwise it makes a girl look hefty)... I've been to three barn weddings this year and I'm tired of the because they are not air conditioned, one in Austin TX, one in Erie, PA and one in Charlottesville, VA.. aren't photo booths fun! (no)... aren't masks just so cute (no).. etc.. I sound like an old wanker and I'm truly not but it's like a reality TV show..

I went to a lovely wedding in Poughkeepsie NY recently that was so wonderful.. a violinist, flutist, then later in the evening out came the DJ, there was no sit down meal, just oodles of hand foods, chocolate stations, roast beef station, turkey station, hummus, and the cake.. it was beautiful, albeit it was small (75 people), her dress was gorgeous, off the shoulder beautiful lace, sweetheart neck.. it was so sophisticated, she didn't look at all like my mothers old curtin's in the 60's or a mummy wrap..

So I AM a wanker, but I wish girls/guys would forget the reality TV look and go for something classically beautiful.. so many girls just look like cotton candy...

and as to going to weddings, I leave after food as I've been to so many the all end the same, young people singing and old people sitting.

Oh man, you would have hated my wedding and my dress! My wedding was outdoors in the desert (it was very casual and not "themed" though), and I wore a strapless lace mermaid-style dress. I was totally anti-strapless dressed, and envisioned wearing an ethereal, bohemian 60s/70s inspired dress. I adore empire waists and flowing bell sleeves, but it turned out that those styles did absolutely nothing for my figure and the exact dress that I thought I would never wear was what looked really great on my shape. I also had a very small budget for a dress. It would have been a very different choice if I had a $6,000 budget for a Jenny Packham dress, but that just wasn't in the cards!

It does hurt my feelings that people might think that my dress choice was contrived and dated, but ultimately it was what flattered me the most and I can't go back and change it, so c'est la vie!

 

[azstonie]

I LOOOOOOOOOVE weddings! I get so excited over going to them and look forward to them for months! I have never been caught up in any kind of wedding drama (with the exception of my SIL/DH's sister, who was the catalyst for starting this thread!). I love everything about weddings. I just love any reason to celebrate people! I love birthdays, graduations, bachelorette parties and showers too! My favorite thing about weddings is dancing, meeting new friends and partying the night away with old friends. I went to a wedding last November that had a live country band and a line dancing coach and I was line dancing all night, and I don't even like country music! It was so awesome!!

My own wedding was honestly the best day of my life. It was super low-key and casual: it was out in the middle of the desert in Joshua Tree. I walked down the aisle to Guns n' Roses and wore hi-top Vans sneakers under my dress. The surroundings were gorgeous, at night there were a million stars in the sky, we had delicious authentic Mexican food for dinner, lots of fancy craft beers, a full bar, and all our family and closest friends there to party all night and it was the BEST. DAY. EVER! I wish I could go back and re-live it twice a year!!! Gah!!!

I guess that's what makes me especially sad about the drama with my SIL. I really want to go to her wedding and celebrate her and her guy's marriage, and the thought that we might not be able to be there makes me terribly sad.

I would've loved attending your wedding, it sounds fab!!! And btw, I too have seen gazillions of strapless wedding gowns and my complaint about them is that they usually don't fit---yours looks wonderful on you and it fits you! 10/10!!!

 

[azstonie]

Hi iLander: You are NOT drama-ie in any way. I wish I had a mom or a MIL just like you.

My parents came very late to my wedding, a male friend was about to escort me down the aisle. The excuse my mom offered that ruined the wedding and reception for me? "Your father thought he was having a heart attack." I was terrfied all day about that.

I found out last year it was because my aunt and uncle overslept (hung over) and my mom thought it was more important to ride with them to the wedding than be on time for me.

So bless you for saving the day for them and anytime you need reinforcement, here I am!!!!!

 

[D_]

Yes, exactly.
Please see below.
The more we dissect it, the more I think that 50% divorce rate is correct.

D

Let's start from 2000

2000: 100 marriages performed, 50 divorces leaves 50 married out of total of 100 marriages = 50/100 = 50%
2001: 100 marriages performed, 50 divorces 50 marriages carried forward from 2000 100 married out of 200 marriages since 2000 = 100/200 = 50%
2002: 100 marriages performed, 50 divorces 50 marriages carried forward from 2001 150 married out of 300 marriages since 2000 = 150/300 = 50%
2003: 100 marriages performed, 50 divorces 50 marriages carried forward from 2002 200 married (against the 50 divorces of that year)
2004, etc. The marriages accumulate. out of 400 marriages since 2000 = 200/400 = 50%

You have to carry forward the remaining marriages from previous years, they are not just eliminated that year, unless you are Only counting that year. Yes, and no matter how many marriages were formed, if 50% get divorced each year, divorce rate is still 50%. You can extrapolate to many many more years, but compare the # of marriages which still last versus total marriage formed (or since it's 50%, you can also compare the # of divorce versus total marriage formed, it's still all be the same).

 

[Maria D]

But that's not how they do the math. It's not "100 marriages performed this year, 50 of THOSE ended."

It's, say, 10 out of one hundred people got married this year while 5 out of one hundred got divorced. The divorce "rate" comes from saying there are half as many people getting divorced in a year as there are getting married. But those getting divorced could have been married this year, last year, or 40 years ago. The article explains why defining divorce rate in this way doesn't give you a meaningful idea of marriage success/failure rate.

 

[kenny]

They say you can prove anything with statistics, even opposing arguments for the same thing.

I love it.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Should be easy statistic to obtain. You have to legally file for marriage and divorce. So all public records. However, long-term relationships or unhappy marriages would not factor in. I always understood the statistic as it doesn't measure first time divorces but ALL divorces. Some people get divorced multiple times.


Maybe I am naive, but I really don't think I have been to a wedding where the bride and groom did not believe they would be together forever. I have been to SOOO many weddings. I also think strapless dresses can be beautiful and people should choose a dress that feels right to them. I certainly like some better than others, but think every bride is beautiful.

 

[zoebartlett]

I like going to weddings. That's good, too, because my husband's from a big family and there are a lot of weddings to attend. I like to see everything come together and see the details that I've heard about in conversations with the couple. I've only witnessed drama at one friend's wedding but no one was surprised it happened and everyone just sort of shrugged it off.