Trayvon Martin. Why are we not talking about this?

[GlamMosher]

And Glam, your son should be aware that while someone might be acting as a tough guy, someone else might honestly believe that it's sincere and be afraid. Kids don't think of these things when they do things like act tough. But it could be genuinely frightening to someone who doesn't know it is an act.

I am not sure what your point is here Gypsy, that should he confront someone following him, he should expect to be shot?

I just thank God that guns are not freely available in Australia.

 

[lulu]

Take guns out of the equation. When someone is beating you there is no time for rationality. Decisions are made in instants based on instinct and they can be life and death. You really don't know how you'll react until it happens to you.

 

[Gypsy]

And Glam, your son should be aware that while someone might be acting as a tough guy, someone else might honestly believe that it's sincere and be afraid. Kids don't think of these things when they do things like act tough. But it could be genuinely frightening to someone who doesn't know it is an act.

I am not sure what your point is here Gypsy, that should he confront someone following him, he should expect to be shot?

I just thank God that guns are not freely available in Australia.

My point is simply that what is obvious to parents and children-- that boys 'pretend' to be tough, can be misinterpreted. It's always good to be self aware, and to make your children understand what it means to be self aware, and that something that is an act can come across as genuinely threatening and can have unintended consequences as a result. And I'm not talking about being shot dead. But someone who might overlook him, might give him a second glance... and who knows what that person's personal demons are and how they will react to that?

 

[GlamMosher]

My point is simply that what is obvious to parents and children-- that boys 'pretend' to be tough, can be misinterpreted. It's always good to be self aware, and to make your children understand what it means to be self aware, and that something that is an act can come across as genuinely threatening and can have unintended consequences as a result. And I'm not talking about being shot dead. But someone who might overlook him, might give him a second glance... and who knows what that person's personal demons are and how they will react to that?

OK, maybe we can keep this to the subject and leave parenting advice out of it...

 

[Laila619]

According to ABC News-

"While in life Trayvon Martin was barely 17, when it comes to justifiable homicide his size -- about 6-foot-3 and 150 pounds -- makes him an adult in death. Zimmerman, 28, is 5-foot-9 and weighs well over 200 pounds."

Weight isn't everything, and it definitely doesn't always have a correlation to strength. My DH has the same build as Martin and has no problem taking down guys who are much, much heavier (he's a cop).

The irony is of course that while Martin may have been "standing his ground" against a self-appointed watchman who was chasing him with a gun, he's too dead to enjoy his immunity from prosecution.

Yeah, really.

This reminds me of a comment I read yesterday at another site: "I don't care if George Zimmerman can't stop crying. Trayvon Martin can't stop being dead. "

Exactly. Cry me a river.

 

[Gypsy]

My point is simply that what is obvious to parents and children-- that boys 'pretend' to be tough, can be misinterpreted. It's always good to be self aware, and to make your children understand what it means to be self aware, and that something that is an act can come across as genuinely threatening and can have unintended consequences as a result. And I'm not talking about being shot dead. But someone who might overlook him, might give him a second glance... and who knows what that person's personal demons are and how they will react to that?

OK, maybe we can keep this to the subject and leave parenting advice out of it...

I was intending to give you parental advice at all. I was trying to give a perspective about how something that seems harmless some parents (like Treyvon's parents), such as "acting tough" can be misinterpreted by a stranger and make them scared. And that it's easy for you to judge that person and say they are ridiculous for buying a kid's act, because your own teen does it and so obviously every one should realize that it's harmless if YOUR KID does it, but that's not reality. Then fact is when a 6 foot 3 Young MAN does it on a dark night, it can be genuinely scary. And it can have real consequences.

 

[Kaleigh]

Unless you have walked in his shoes, I would say take the lawyer hat off, heck take your Judge robe off...

Trayvon Martin, we are you. He is not here to defend himself.

I identify with him because of how I was raised. I don't see color, but I do see injustice....

 

[lulu]

There are plenty of people here judging both sides, and my point is that we should withhold judgment until we have all the facts.

 

[GlamMosher]

I was intending to give you parental advice at all. I was trying to give a perspective about how something that seems harmless some parents (like Treyvon's parents), such as "acting tough" can be misinterpreted by a stranger and make them scared. And that it's easy for you to judge that person and say they are ridiculous for buying a kid's act, because your own teen does it and so obviously every one should realize that it's harmless if YOUR KID does it, but that's not reality. Then fact is when a 6 foot 3 Young MAN does it on a dark night, it can be genuinely scary. And it can have real consequences.

Gypsy, I really think you are arguing for argument sake now. There is just no logic in your responses.

 

[amc80]

Here's a question. I read that Trayvon's mom filed to trademark "Justice for Trayvon" and "I Trayvon." Why would she do this? It seems like she would want people using those phrases as much as possible to bring publicity to the case. Trademarking them makes it appear like she's trying to make a buck. Maybe one of you legal types can shed some light on this?

 

[MissStepcut]

Here's a question. I read that Trayvon's mom filed to trademark "Justice for Trayvon" and "I Trayvon." Why would she do this? It seems like she would want people using those phrases as much as possible to bring publicity to the case. Trademarking them makes it appear like she's trying to make a buck. Maybe one of you legal types can shed some light on this?

Hmm... well... maybe trying to stop other people from commercializing it? Or using it in ways she finds distasteful? Those are what come to mind after "trying to make a quick buck."

 

[amc80]

Hmm... well... maybe trying to stop other people from commercializing it? Or using it in ways she finds distasteful? Those are what come to mind after "trying to make a quick buck."

I guess the timing just seems off. I think if my son died it would be the last thing I'd be thinking about at this point. But maybe that's just me...

 

[MissStepcut]

Hmm... well... maybe trying to stop other people from commercializing it? Or using it in ways she finds distasteful? Those are what come to mind after "trying to make a quick buck."

I guess the timing just seems off. I think if my son died it would be the last thing I'd be thinking about at this point. But maybe that's just me...

I guess I would be upset if someone else trademarked and capitalized on my loved one's death, and if I had a lawyer in my life pointing out that possibility, I might want to stop them from doing that.

 

[Imdanny]

I just learned that 800 residents of my native Tampa, FL marched. I'm very proud of them.

There was a KKK march in Tampa when I was in highschool. It was in support of a referendum to repeal the sexual orientation clause of a city or it might have been county I don't remember now anti-discriminatIon law. It was covered by all the local stations. The people agreed with the KKK. They repealed it. I never quite got over that.

In general, where I'm from, the past exists more in the present than many might believe.

 

[gammygam]

New details are emerging. Martin was found "face down" and witnesses say that Zimmerman was straddling his body with his hand on Martin's back.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/26/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?c=homepage-t&page=2

 

[CaprineSun]

Unless you have walked in his shoes, I would say take the lawyer hat off, heck take your Judge robe off...

Trayvon Martin, we are you. He is not here to defend himself.

I identify with him because of how I was raised. I don't see color, but I do see injustice....

YES! THANK YOU! I'm so with you on that!

 

[CaprineSun]

Gypsy, I really think you are arguing for argument sake now. There is just no logic in your responses.

 

[Imdanny]

Sanford police are in engaged in a smear campaign against Trayvon Martin.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/26/452310/what-everyone-needs-to-know-about-the-smear-campaign-against-trayvon-martin-1995-2012/?mobile=wp

This link cites only one of many such leaks made to media in the last 48 hrs by Sanford police.

It's all there in the google. You can't make this stuff up.

 

[iheartscience]

Hmm... well... maybe trying to stop other people from commercializing it? Or using it in ways she finds distasteful? Those are what come to mind after "trying to make a quick buck."

I guess the timing just seems off. I think if my son died it would be the last thing I'd be thinking about at this point. But maybe that's just me...

I guess I would be upset if someone else trademarked and capitalized on my loved one's death, and if I had a lawyer in my life pointing out that possibility, I might want to stop them from doing that.

Ditto.

Although I'm impressed with the inventiveness of the argument against a grieving family thrust into the spotlight, I'm unsure what questioning the mother's motives accomplishes.

 

[amc80]

Ditto.

Although I'm impressed with the inventiveness of the argument against a grieving family thrust into the spotlight, I'm unsure what questioning the mother's motives accomplishes.

Who said it has to accomplishes anything? I'm allowed to be curious.

 

[SweetAsscher]

The calling of people ignorant in this thread has really irked me. I guess 75% of the population is ignorant then and we should bow down to the other 25% non ignorant folks.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/26/justice/florida-teen-shooting-poll/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Ignorant does not mean stupid.
Ignorance is the lack of education or knowledge.

In this case I can agree that most of us who do not practice law or did not attend law school are ignorant regarding legal issues.
It doesn't make people dumb, it just makes them unqualified to make assumptions and to interpret the law.

From experience I can say that to my eyes common sense isn't always prevalent in court.

 

[SweetAsscher]

I was intending to give you parental advice at all. I was trying to give a perspective about how something that seems harmless some parents (like Treyvon's parents), such as "acting tough" can be misinterpreted by a stranger and make them scared. And that it's easy for you to judge that person and say they are ridiculous for buying a kid's act, because your own teen does it and so obviously every one should realize that it's harmless if YOUR KID does it, but that's not reality. Then fact is when a 6 foot 3 Young MAN does it on a dark night, it can be genuinely scary. And it can have real consequences.

Gypsy, I really think you are arguing for argument sake now. There is just no logic in your responses.

I understand what she was trying to say.
Please don't take offense to my analogy.
My dog is an American Bully. I see him as cute and loving and a big friendly baby.
But some people look at him and see a huge scary pit bull that could hurt them.
I know my dog and I know he isn't aggressive to people and would never hurt anyone. People who don't know him might not see him as harmless.
I *think* what Gypsy was trying to say was that you know your son and know he might just be acting tough, but other people may really believe it.

 

[MissStepcut]

The calling of people ignorant in this thread has really irked me. I guess 75% of the population is ignorant then and we should bow down to the other 25% non ignorant folks.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/26/justice/florida-teen-shooting-poll/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Ignorant does not mean stupid.
Ignorance is the lack of education or knowledge.

In this case I can agree that most of us who do not practice law or did not attend law school are ignorant regarding legal issues.
It doesn't make people dumb, it just makes them unqualified to make assumptions and to interpret the law.

From experience I can say that to my eyes common sense isn't always prevalent in court.

FWIW I am sure there are people who don't understand the law on both sides of the split, and people who do. The poll doesn't ask you to understand the law or the justice system, just if he "should" be arrested. That could be interpreted as an emotional, gut-response question, totally independent of the realities of the legal system or the application of the Stand Your Ground law.

 

[GlamMosher]

I understand what she was trying to say.
Please don't take offense to my analogy.
My dog is an American Bully. I see him as cute and loving and a big friendly baby.
But some people look at him and see a huge scary pit bull that could hurt them.
I know my dog and I know he isn't aggressive to people and would never hurt anyone. People who don't know him might not see him as harmless.
I *think* what Gypsy was trying to say was that you know your son and know he might just be acting tough, but other people may really believe it.

I know what she was meaning (or I am too ignorant?), but it has no relevance to this topic.

 

[Imdanny]

I was intending to give you parental advice at all. I was trying to give a perspective about how something that seems harmless some parents (like Treyvon's parents), such as "acting tough" can be misinterpreted by a stranger and make them scared. And that it's easy for you to judge that person and say they are ridiculous for buying a kid's act, because your own teen does it and so obviously every one should realize that it's harmless if YOUR KID does it, but that's not reality. Then fact is when a 6 foot 3 Young MAN does it on a dark night, it can be genuinely scary. And it can have real consequences.

Gypsy, I really think you are arguing for argument sake now. There is just no logic in your responses.

I understand what she was trying to say.
Please don't take offense to my analogy.
My dog is an American Bully. I see him as cute and loving and a big friendly baby.
But some people look at him and see a huge scary pit bull that could hurt them.
I know my dog and I know he isn't aggressive to people and would never hurt anyone. People who don't know him might not see him as harmless.
I *think* what Gypsy was trying to say was that you know your son and know he might just be acting tough, but other people may really believe it.

SweertAsscher, what are you trying to say? What does what what you are trtying to say have to do with Trayvon Martin, the topic of this thread?

 

[SweetAsscher]

I was intending to give you parental advice at all. I was trying to give a perspective about how something that seems harmless some parents (like Treyvon's parents), such as "acting tough" can be misinterpreted by a stranger and make them scared. And that it's easy for you to judge that person and say they are ridiculous for buying a kid's act, because your own teen does it and so obviously every one should realize that it's harmless if YOUR KID does it, but that's not reality. Then fact is when a 6 foot 3 Young MAN does it on a dark night, it can be genuinely scary. And it can have real consequences.

Gypsy, I really think you are arguing for argument sake now. There is just no logic in your responses.

I understand what she was trying to say.
Please don't take offense to my analogy.
My dog is an American Bully. I see him as cute and loving and a big friendly baby.
But some people look at him and see a huge scary pit bull that could hurt them.
I know my dog and I know he isn't aggressive to people and would never hurt anyone. People who don't know him might not see him as harmless.
I *think* what Gypsy was trying to say was that you know your son and know he might just be acting tough, but other people may really believe it.

SweertAsscher, what are you trying to say? What does what what you are trtying to say have to do with Trayvon Martin, the topic of this thread?

nothing to do with the topic of the thread, I just thought GM was confused. She brought up her son.

 

[SweetAsscher]

I understand what she was trying to say.
Please don't take offense to my analogy.
My dog is an American Bully. I see him as cute and loving and a big friendly baby.
But some people look at him and see a huge scary pit bull that could hurt them.
I know my dog and I know he isn't aggressive to people and would never hurt anyone. People who don't know him might not see him as harmless.
I *think* what Gypsy was trying to say was that you know your son and know he might just be acting tough, but other people may really believe it.

I know what she was meaning (or I am too ignorant?), but it has no relevance to this topic.

Then why did you bring up your son? I took it as you relating to the victims family since you also have a teenager?
I really did think you were getting mad because you were feeling criticized and in my effort to diffuse some tension it seems to be directed at me now? Sorry since that wasn't my intent.

 

[Gypsy]

The calling of people ignorant in this thread has really irked me. I guess 75% of the population is ignorant then and we should bow down to the other 25% non ignorant folks.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/26/justice/florida-teen-shooting-poll/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Ignorant does not mean stupid.
Ignorance is the lack of education or knowledge.

In this case I can agree that most of us who do not practice law or did not attend law school are ignorant regarding legal issues.
It doesn't make people dumb, it just makes them unqualified to make assumptions and to interpret the law.

From experience I can say that to my eyes common sense isn't always prevalent in court.

Sweetasscher it never would have occurred to me to define ignorance. WOW. I'm really glad you did, because UNTIL you did I didn't realize that people assumed that I was calling them idiots. I certainly wasn't.

I meant lacking subject matter specific education and knowledge. Thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt. ((HUGS))

And I'm sorry if anyone thought I meant that they were idiots. I don't think that. But I do think that a large percentage of the population has a skewed and inaccurate perception of how our legal system works. And for the most part, TV programing doesn't help this, and frequently hinders it.

 

[Gypsy]

I understand what she was trying to say.
Please don't take offense to my analogy.
My dog is an American Bully. I see him as cute and loving and a big friendly baby.
But some people look at him and see a huge scary pit bull that could hurt them.
I know my dog and I know he isn't aggressive to people and would never hurt anyone. People who don't know him might not see him as harmless.
I *think* what Gypsy was trying to say was that you know your son and know he might just be acting tough, but other people may really believe it.

I know what she was meaning (or I am too ignorant?), but it has no relevance to this topic.

Then why did you bring up your son? I took it as you relating to the victims family since you also have a teenager?
I really did think you were getting mad because you were feeling criticized and in my effort to diffuse some tension it seems to be directed at me now? Sorry since that wasn't my intent.

Another "Yup"... that was my point. Thank you for understanding.

Glam, I think your just really emotional about his and... kinda not making sense. And you are attacking sweetasscher who hasn't done anything wrong. Why did you bring up your kid and his tough guy act if not to draw a parallel.

 

[GlamMosher]

Glam, I think your just really emotional about his and... kinda not making sense. And you are attacking sweetasscher who hasn't done anything wrong. Why did you bring up your kid and his tough guy act if not to draw a parallel.

I would LOL if this wasn't so sad. I have no intention of getting caught up in a war of words with you Gypsy.

I think everyone else knew what I meant.