Psycho in the Family

[Jambalaya]

I hope during this quiet time she has some serious reflection time and realizes what she needs to do for herself and for her kids, and this time, does it.

Thanks, Packrat. I don't hold out much hope once I witnessed her eagerness to believe his promises. I mean, overnight she went from planning to see a solicitor and ask him to leave, to saying "I feel much better, we just need to communicate more." ????

D.r.e.a.m.l.a.n.d.

But thanks for your good wishes. Maybe she'll leave one day.

 

[chrono]

J,
I agree with you; it is very unlikely that she will heed your advice to prepare for the next occurrence. It is very sad to read this, coming from the outside, seeing that she is unable to see it from our lense.

 

[Jambalaya]

That your cousin isn't being abused doesn't mean that you cannot be pro-active. While getting too involved in her life at times of crisis is probably bad for you, helping her to get ready to leave-in times of calm-may not be unhealthy. Perhaps you could use this "long time" when she isn't being abused to advise her to save money; set up a safe place to go the next time her husband abuses her; get the name of an attorney and have an initial consultation with him; etcetera.

Let your cousin know that if her husband is "good" and keeps his word, she will not have to use these tools, but if that he ever steps out of line again, she will will never have to live in fear again. She can just walk out the door.

Deb

Thanks, AGBF. All good points. We're definitely in a simmer-down period where she and her brother are sick of me and my advice, but after reading your message I think I will encourage her toward those things once this cooling-down period has passed and we're in touch again. She was supposed to be seeing a lawyer last week, and her brother was even going to pay for it so there's no trace, but after her abuser whispered rainbows in her ears - and told her exactly what she wanted to hear, no doubt - the lawyer appointment seemed to drop off the radar overnight. You can see why I don't hold out much hope in the near future. Well, maybe she'll surprise me. And I know that the abuse will happen again - it's been going on for ten years and steadily getting worse. Like most classic abusers, he is not going to stop. This situation has really made me see in a deeper way than ever before just how much trouble a woman with an abusive spouse is in.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[kmarla]

That your cousin isn't being abused doesn't mean that you cannot be pro-active. While getting too involved in her life at times of crisis is probably bad for you, helping her to get ready to leave-in times of calm-may not be unhealthy. Perhaps you could use this "long time" when she isn't being abused to advise her to save money; set up a safe place to go the next time her husband abuses her; get the name of an attorney and have an initial consultation with him; etcetera.

Let your cousin know that if her husband is "good" and keeps his word, she will not have to use these tools, but if that he ever steps out of line again, she will will never have to live in fear again. She can just walk out the door.

Deb

This is great advice and we had all these things in place as well. I think it helped to reassure us that it was something we could do proactively.

I'm glad to hear that all is quiet for now. I meant what I said though about not being able to save someone who won't save themselves, and you have to protect your emotions as well. The choice to take action has to come from your cousin. We saw the abuse with our own eyes, but our sister's word trumped ours. We did all the right things, notified social services, police etc, set up safe housing, loved our sister and nephews and begged her to think of the children, but were powerless legally to get her safe. It's the way our system works Something that helped me through it all was to talk to psychologists, police and social workers. They unfortunately see this all the time. People who are living in abusive environments gradually lose their perspective as to what is normal/acceptable, no matter how smart they are in other aspects of life. They don't know where that line is anymore. And if they see you as trying to tell them what to do, then you are just another bully. Also they become very good at protecting their abuser. I'm simplifying but that's essentially it. We did get our sister to a safe house once at her request, but she left after a day and went back to him. This is also very common. To this day she has never pressed charges. You have an incredibly kind heart, so make sure you protect it

 

[House Cat]

Nothing is quiet in her home. This is part of the cycle of abuse. Abusive homes are ALWAYS in a phase of this cycle, unless the members of the family are in some sort of rehabilitation.

Here is the cycle, spelled out:
(I took this from Wikipedia but if you research "abuse cycle" there are many sources that spell this out exactly the same. I liked this format.)

The cycle usually goes in the following order, and will repeat until the conflict is stopped, usually by the survivor entirely abandoning the relationship[4] or some form of intervention.[5] The cycle can occur hundreds of times in an abusive relationship, the total cycle taking anywhere from a few hours, to a year or more to complete. However, the length of the cycle usually diminishes over time so that the "reconciliation" and "calm" stages may disappear,[citation needed] violence becomes more intense and the cycles become more frequent.[5]

1: Tension building
Stress builds from the pressures of daily life, like conflict over children, marital issues, misunderstandings, or other family conflicts. It also builds as the result of illness, legal or financial problems, unemployment, or catastrophic events, like floods, rape or war.[5] During this period, the abuser feels ignored, threatened, annoyed or wronged. The feeling lasts on average several minutes to hours, it may last as much as several months.[6]

To prevent violence, the victim may try to reduce the tension by becoming compliant and nurturing. Or, to get the abuse over with, prepare for the violence or lessen the degree of injury, the victim may provoke the batterer. "However, at no time is the batterer justified in engaging in violent or abusive behavior," said Scott Allen Johnson, author of Physical Abusers and Sexual Offenders.[6]

2: acute battering
Characterized by outbursts of violent, abusive incidents which may be preceded by verbal abuse[5] and include psychological abuse.[6] During this stage the abuser attempts to dominate his/her partner (survivor), with the use of domestic violence.

In intimate partner violence, children are negatively affected by having witnessed the violence and the partner's relationship degrades as well. The release of energy reduces the tension, and the abuser may feel or express that the victim "had it coming" to them.

3: Reconciliation/honeymoon
The perpetrator may begin to feel remorse, guilty feelings, or fear that their partner will leave or call the police. The victim feels pain, fear, humiliation, disrespect, confusion, and may wrongly feel responsible.

Characterized by affection, apology, or, alternatively, ignoring the incident. This phase marks an apparent end of violence, with assurances that it will never happen again, or that the abuser will do his or her best to change. During this stage the abuser feels overwhelming feelings of remorse and sadness, or at least pretends to. Some abusers walk away from the situation with little comment, but most will eventually shower the survivor with love and affection. The abuser may use self-harm or threats of suicide to gain sympathy and/or prevent the survivor from leaving the relationship. Abusers are frequently so convincing, and survivors so eager for the relationship to improve, that survivors who are often worn down and confused by longstanding abuse, stay in the relationship.

4: Calm
During this phase (which is often considered an element of the honeymoon/reconciliation phase), the relationship is relatively calm and peaceable. During this period the abuser may agree to engage in counseling, ask for forgiveness, and create a normal atmosphere. In intimate partner relationships, the perpetrator may buy presents or the couple may engage in passionate sex.[5] Over time, the batterer's apologies and requests for forgiveness become less sincere and are generally stated to prevent separation or intervention.[6] However, interpersonal difficulties will inevitably arise, leading again to the tension building phase.[5] The effect of the continual cycle may include loss of love, contempt, distress, and/or physical disability. Intimate partners may separate, divorce or, at the extreme, someone may be killed.

 

[kmarla]

Housecat, thanks for posting that. Of course you're right! I was thinking about things being quiet from the perspective of Jambalaya, so that she can recover a bit before the next set of phone calls. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[House Cat]

Housecat, thanks for posting that. Of course you're right! I was thinking about things being quiet from the perspective of Jambalaya, so that she can recover a bit before the next set of phone calls. Sorry for any confusion.

Of course.

My focus on this thread (obviously) is the children.

Stating that things are "quiet" in this home is just wrong. Understand, they all live in fear all of the time. They could be on a trip to Disneyland and they would still be terrified and walking on eggshells.

Take care.

 

[kmarla]

Hey now Housecat. I just repeated what was posted earlier by Jambalaya ("all's quiet on the western front") and then actually thanked you for posting the stages of abuse. I then clarified what I meant to you since it was misinterpreted. I know very well that silence doesn't mean everything is fine. I am pretty much an expert on abuse thanks to my personal family situation that went on for almost 20 years, and I'm very aware of what life is like for the children. Did you see my posts? I was in Jambalaya's position, and when you are unable to change anything and in extreme emotional pain over that inability, a slight break in communication ( because the victim has chosen to become incommunicado) is a time to try to stabilize your own emotions and work out a new, more effective solution for next time.
If you meant your comment for general enlightenment, and not a personal criticism although you quoted me, then I completely endorse it.
Take care

 

[House Cat]

Hey now Housecat. I just repeated what was posted earlier by Jambalaya ("all's quiet on the western front") and then actually thanked you for posting the stages of abuse. I then clarified what I meant to you since it was misinterpreted. I know very well that silence doesn't mean everything is fine. I am pretty much an expert on abuse thanks to my personal family situation that went on for almost 20 years, and I'm very aware of what life is like for the children. Did you see my posts? I was in Jambalaya's position, and when you are unable to change anything and in extreme emotional pain over that inability, a slight break in communication ( because the victim has chosen to become incommunicado) is a time to try to stabilize your own emotions and work out a new, more effective solution for next time.
If you meant your comment for general enlightenment, and not a personal criticism although you quoted me, then I completely endorse it.
Take care

I think I didn't say what I meant in the right way.


I am sorry.

I meant my comment to be pointed toward EVERYONE who was saying that it was all quiet in the home. (As a matter of fact, when I posted the cycle of abuse comment, that wasn't directly pointed at you either.) I didn't mean to restate anything towards you. I see how my comment looked as though I was nailing my point into you. I am really sorry for that. I hope you can forgive my careless choice of words.

 

[packrat]

I don't think anyone thinks that things being "quiet" means it's "fine" or that nothing is happening.

 

[kmarla]

Absolutely Housecat! We're on the same side of this issue and thank goodness there are people like all of us on this thread who try their best to make a positive difference.

 

[Jambalaya]

I was using "all's quiet on the western front" as a phrase. Of COURSE it isn't quiet, it will never be quiet in that house. Except, after the abuse there is quiet as he's in the reconciliation phase, but it isn't true quiet. As I said above, "he is a classic abuser who will not stop.'"

BELIEVE me, no one needs to tell me about witnessing family abuse as a child. I'd rather not elaborate further.

Sorry for being short, but one of the elders I care for has just come out of hospital so am a little fraught.

 

[TooPatient]

Continuing to think of you as you deal with so many difficult things.

I was scrolling through a news site today and saw something beyond awful. I thought of you and your cousin. She may not be ready to see it now, but it is something to keep in mind as you are looking to be prepared when she is ready to leave.

STORY

A judge in Michigan ordered three kids locked up in a juvenile center for refusing to see their father. They say they don't want to see him because they saw him abuse their mother. (old enough that they know what they saw!)
There was no evidence. No reports. Nothing to back them up.
So now they are locked away from their mother and each other for who knows how long.

 

[Jambalaya]

Not much of an update, but I wanted to vent just a little. My cousin sent me her SOS email almost three months ago now, and you know from this thread that she told me everything and I was a sounding-board for her. I gave her as much advice as I could since she asked for it, and told her straight exactly what I thought - short version: This man is absolutely horrendous, has always been horrendous and will never change.

She decided to stay with her abuser and has not really contacted me since then. I sent her an email a few days ago saying that I hadn't asked her before as I didn't want to pry, but it's been months and I also didn't want her to think I didn't care, so I was wondering how things were and that I hoped things had improved at home. Then I moved on to other topics.

Well, she's just emailed me back telling me all about their vacation and her daily life........and completely ignored the topic at hand. I'm annoyed because she's quite happy to drag me through her troubles when they occur, so I'm part of it, and now she ignores the topic completely when I enquire after her wellbeing.

Maybe she's embarrassed. However, it's pretty annoying being used when someone's in trouble and then ignored when she's not so desperate. I am totally calling her on it. I'm going to say that I did notice she ignored my question and that I'll assume is well. If she doesn't want to talk about it, that's fine, but I'm not going to let her get away with ignoring my question when she's so happy to take my comfort during the bad times.

So annoying!!!!

 

[Jambalaya]

I did just email her. I told her that I noticed she ignored my inquiry and that if she tells me things during the bad times, obviously I'm going to wonder about her wellbeing going forward. I said I didn't need to know anything as long as she's OK, but that since she didn't answer me I'll assume all is well, so I'm happy about that and happy that she had a nice vacation.

(I don't buy into the last part about all being well at all, of course. I'm very clear that he is a complete sh*t and the only thing to do is divorce him. Her choice is to stay - out of my hands.)

But at least I've let her know that she doesn't get to dump all over me, lap up my kindness and concern in the bad times, and then ignore a concerned inquiry when she's feeling all good again. IMO that is a very rude way to treat someone who's been there for you when you asked. I'm glad I called her on it.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Some of my patients have been part of domestic violence. If I have learned anything from my experiences, the victim does not leave until he/she is ready. It is very scary and there is a certain amount of brain washing. If she is ready to leave, sounds like she is not, than there are steps she should take to ensure a safe exit. It is very, very sad and my heart goes out to your cousin and her children. If you think they are in danger you can file a report with whatever the local child protection agency is. Otherwise be there when she is ready. I know it is frustrating to feel so powerless.

ETA: Also I would expect him to be reading her e-mails/texts. So I would try to communicate with her in person.

 

[Jambalaya]

I did check and she operates from an account he has no access to, so no worries there.

I've been through it all with her on this topic and am familiar with domestic violence and the reasons women stay/difficulties leaving/effects on children - the whole nine yards. The end result is that she would rather stay in an abusive relationship than be a divorced single mom. Her choice.

The thing that annoyed me in this instance is her being willing to lap up all my kindness in the bad times but then pretend those conversations never happened when I am wondering how it's going months later and feeling natural concern for her. Anyway, she seems to be OK so that's the main thing. I'll never understand her choices, but there you go.

Thanks!

 

[KaeKae]

Perhaps Tacori Ering or others with more knowledge can chime in on my thoughts:

The fact that she is responding at all could be seen as a good thing. I understand your frustration, but in the meantime, she IS keeping in contact by responding in any way, shape or form. Just knowing you are there may one day mean the difference between her wanting to leave and actually finding the courage to do it. So, hard as it has to be, it may be best for you to keep up the chit-chatty correspondence so she feels the connection across the miles. And if, as Tacori suggested, he is reading her emails, he will see just those chats and not suspect you are actually ready, willing and able to help her and the kids, the moment she finally asks for it.

Another thing: Maybe at some point, in person or over a phone call, you can suggest/help her make a new, secret email address, so she has another avenue to contact you. Again, when she is ready, then you and she can speak more freely.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I did check and she operates from an account he has no access to, so no worries there.

I've been through it all with her on this topic and am familiar with domestic violence and the reasons women stay/difficulties leaving/effects on children - the whole nine yards. The end result is that she would rather stay in an abusive relationship than be a divorced single mom. Her choice.

The thing that annoyed me in this instance is her being willing to lap up all my kindness in the bad times but then pretend those conversations never happened when I am wondering how it's going months later and feeling natural concern for her. Anyway, she seems to be OK so that's the main thing. I'll never understand her choices, but there you go.

Thanks!

But it isn't about *you.* I obviously have never met her but I am guessing she feels trapped. DV is not a black and white issue. Though abuse is NEVER okay, leaving her situation, for her, may seem like it ISN'T a choice. She knows your views on her marriage. So maybe she pulled back because she feels judged. Maybe that is too painful for her to cope with on top of her horrifying home life. Again, without knowing many details, I may be wrong. If she is important to you, I would keep showing her your natural concern and kindness.

 

[Jambalaya]

He's not reading her emails and she's fine. They've just had a lovely vacation in Italy together. Staying with someone like that wouldn't be for me, but there you go.

Tacori, when you involve someone in your problems you make it about them too. We are family. She, I, and her brother were all very involved in the troubles earlier this summer, at her behest. So when I hear nothing further from her and I enquire about her wellbeing a few months later, she shouldn't ignore that concern. We are concerned about her, and we were not hearing from her, and when I asked how things were going at home, she ignored me. That's not fair. You can't turn to someone in the bad times and ignore them in the good times, especially when they are concerned about you.

 

[Jambalaya]

Perhaps Tacori Ering or others with more knowledge can chime in on my thoughts:

The fact that she is responding at all could be seen as a good thing. I understand your frustration, but in the meantime, she IS keeping in contact by responding in any way, shape or form. Just knowing you are there may one day mean the difference between her wanting to leave and actually finding the courage to do it. So, hard as it has to be, it may be best for you to keep up the chit-chatty correspondence so she feels the connection across the miles. And if, as Tacori suggested, he is reading her emails, he will see just those chats and not suspect you are actually ready, willing and able to help her and the kids, the moment she finally asks for it.

Another thing: Maybe at some point, in person or over a phone call, you can suggest/help her make a new, secret email address, so she has another avenue to contact you. Again, when she is ready, then you and she can speak more freely.

Thanks, KaeKae. She's a professional woman with her own office and security and no worries about keeping her correspondence a secret. We do keep up with chitchat, but she will only tell me what's going on with her husband when it's bad and she needs support. I'm not her therapist or her punchbag and if she calls me up crying and telling me all the dreadful things he's done to her, I think I deserve to have my question acknowledged when I ask her how things are at home a few months later. If she doesn't want to tell me that's absolutely fine, but she needs to say "All's well, thanks for asking" rather than just ignore me. I did leave it for three months so as not to pry - but I was also concerned that she might think I didn't care, if months go by and I don't ask.

If I sound frustrated, it's because I've been dealing with this filthy rat in my family since October 2004, and yes I am losing patience with the whole wretched situation. She's clearly going to stay with this criminal her whole life, and I can see years ahead of SOS calls during which me and her brother get all upset, run around like headless chickens lining up lawyers and mopping her brow, followed by "Oh, it's all fine, we just need to communicate more" ahead. I'm not trained to deal with it, and after eleven years, yes, I'm frustrated and I judged him because it was about time I did. It's not as if ten years of holding back my opinion of him did any good. It's her choice - she has a big family, money and resources, and the law is firmly on her side, but she believes everything her husband tells her and it's her choice to stay. She won't listen to a single thing that any of her family says or does for her, including a big brother waiting in the wings to pay for her lawyer. If I were in that situation, I wouldn't have that kind of support. And if she can't even do me the courtesy of replying when I ask how her situation is going, then....That's a pretty poor way to acknowledge your loved ones' concern about you.

And she's fine, anyhow. Nice vacay to Italy with him and the kids.

 

[packrat]

We all vent about our spouses. When it gets to the point tho that you're rallying the troops to get you *out* and then change your mind, repeatedly, then to me, you're looking for the attention more than a way out. I know that sounds mean and cold hearted, but that's how I see it. You can only decide oh yes you are *ready* to get out so many times before it becomes "uh huh, sure you are". I quit asking my relative how his life was going w/his abuser. I finally told him he was either going to have to get used to it or leave. Vent away about your spouse doing the little piddly things we all do, by all means. But when you're getting into physical/mental/emotional abuse, that's a whole different ballgame. My MIL used to do that to JD *all* the time. Weekly. And it brought me many times to the point of wanting out of our marriage. She needed to know that JD still cared about her and would "save" her. She ruined their relationship and now she is out of our lives. My relative now has started the divorce process.

Honestly, after 11 years of that bullshit, the next time it happens, b/c there will be a next time, I'd be like "Oh gosh that's too bad. He's such an ass. Hey, do you happen to have your aunt's brownie recipe? I've got a potluck coming up and think that would be a hit!"

 

[Jambalaya]

Yeah, Packrat, I know. I'm glad someone understands. I know she's in a bad situation and I do feel for her. But I've had it up to here with the whole thing. She has money and resources and a large house and big brothers just waiting to protect her - and in her state, even in a no-fault divorce, the woman has the right to stay in the house until the youngest child is 18! She has no excuse for staying in that marriage and exposing her children to all that. Yes, I know there are psychological barriers to leaving, and that abusers brainwash, and there are self-esteem issues. I get all that, really I do. But women do leave - it can be done, as millions have done before her. She has money for therapy. And her brother and I were so upset about the whole thing in the summer - I mean, I hadn't heard from her in months and she emails me and is like, "Can you call me now? Like right this second?" So I did, because I'm concerned, and it all kicks off. And then when I ask her about the situation she can't even answer my question....look, I'm sympathetic but I'm not a saint. Anyway, she is apparently just dandy.

Your response is how I envisage responding next time, but you know, when it actually happens and she's on the phone in tears because he twisted her arm and it hurt....I melt.

To be honest, it might sound harsh but I'm glad I don't live closer and I don't have to see her and the awful husband and the effect on the kids. It's much easier this way.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

He's not reading her emails and she's fine. They've just had a lovely vacation in Italy together. Staying with someone like that wouldn't be for me, but there you go.

Tacori, when you involve someone in your problems you make it about them too. We are family. She, I, and her brother were all very involved in the troubles earlier this summer, at her behest. So when I hear nothing further from her and I enquire about her wellbeing a few months later, she shouldn't ignore that concern. We are concerned about her, and we were not hearing from her, and when I asked how things were going at home, she ignored me. That's not fair. You can't turn to someone in the bad times and ignore them in the good times, especially when they are concerned about you.

But the fact is she is an abuse victim. Her behavior is classic. Like I said in a previous post, she knows how you feel about the situation. So when things are calm, what would you expect her to do? Of course she won't reach out to you because you do not agree (rightly so) with their relationship. You mentioned you understand DV so then you should understand it is not personal. I have a friend who is finally leaving her husband after 30 years of horrible, horrible abuse. He is VERY wealthy and respected in the community. She was living a double life. Even now that the divorce is progressing, she has a difficult time having the confidence this is the right thing. She is scared. One of her daughter's sides with the father which only makes the situation worse. Money doesn't always mean it is easy to divorce.

I agree with maybe you need to practice detachment.

 

[Jambalaya]

Wow, Tacori, your friend's situation just sounds awful. After thirty years, too. Oh, your poor friend!

I do understand the issues so for ten years I held back. It's complex of course, and I certainly didn't expect her to reach out because I expect she's embarrassed, among other things. But I inquired how things were and I don't appreciate that question being ignored after everything we've supported her through with this vile man. She didn't have to tell me anything, but she shouldn't completely ignore legitimate concern from someone whose concern she's so happy to receive during the bad times. If she tells me all this stuff then at some point I'm going to ask how things are going at home.

I have been detached since the episode in the summer. I actually didn't care to know anything further because I'm convinced the situation is hopeless, but the reason I contacted her is because I hadn't done so in months, and I wanted her to know I was still there for her. I made a gentle inquiry then talked about other things. I didn't want her to think I'd forgotten all about her and that I didn't care what was happening to her. I've been in bad situations and it's not nice to think that someone's forgotten what you're going through. I left it for three months and wanted her to know that I care.

But she has to realize that eventually people will give up and the sad thing is that there will be fewer and fewer people she feels she can talk to. That's what naturally happens. You listen, you cajole, you give advice, you drop everything to help, you mop their brow, you don't tell what you think of him, you do tell what you think of him, you raise practical concerns, you talk to family members and nothing helps, nothing makes a difference, no stance matters. It's like talking to a brick wall. I fully understand the difficulties involved which is why I held back for a decade. But now I think there is no obstacle big enough to stand in her way of leaving, practically speaking - but she doesn't want to leave at this time. She loves him, she wants to live with him, she wants her family intact, and she believes him when he promises her things. I've accepted that this is her life for now and she is not going to be leaving in the near future.

It's so sad. She met this rat in a taxi line. If only she'd been five minutes later or five minutes earlier, she'd have bypassed him completely.

I understand the difficulties she faces in tearing herself away from a man whom she loves when he is not being abusive, especially because they are married with children. However, he was horrible to her from shortly after they met, when she was an independent single girl who owned her own great apartment and had a steady career. He was always horrible to her, and her response was to get further and further involved with him when he wasn't already a part of her life. That, I don't understand.

 

[Polished]

I joined a discussion forum that was running for a short while after the case of Elisabeth Fritzl, who had been imprisoned and abused by her father in a cellar for over half a century. A number of us needed to process what had happened - one guy on there was someone who had been horribly abused by a step father during his childhood. He seemed to have developed a positive, good attitude to life. However one of the things he said stayed with me as may be capturing an important truth in people who have experienced or are experiencing abuse from someone. His case had been well known within the place he came from. He made the point that he disliked people talking to him about it, even if what they had to say was useful and even when he knew their concern was genuine. His view was definite - "only talk about it when I want to and choose to initiate the subject". I imagine anything other than this approach was experienced as disempowering.

 

[Jambalaya]

I joined a discussion forum that was running for a short while after the case of Elisabeth Fritzl, who had been imprisoned and abused by her father in a cellar for over half a century. A number of us needed to process what had happened - one guy on there was someone who had been horribly abused by a step father during his childhood. He seemed to have developed a positive, good attitude to life. However one of the things he said stayed with me as may be capturing an important truth in people who have experienced or are experiencing abuse from someone. His case had been well known within the place he came from. He made the point that he disliked people talking to him about it, even if what they had to say was useful and even when he knew their concern was genuine. His view was definite - "only talk about it when I want to and choose to initiate the subject". I imagine anything other than this approach was experienced as disempowering.

That's insightful, Polished. She has previously been open about it, and I wasn't asking for chapter and verse, but I asked because I didn't want her to think she'd been forgotten. I did leave it for three months first, and it was only a gentle inquiry. Anyway, at least I did show her that I'm still concerned and haven't forgotten about her.

 

[Polished]

It's a tough one Jambalaya. I have a friend who I think tolerates an amount of abuse I wouldn't. He'll do things like take all the things out of the kitchen cupboard. pile them up in the middle of the floor and then ask her why they need all this crap. He then walks off while shouting on her to put it away. She does put it away. I asked her once what would happen if she didn't put it away. She said he would never get around to putting the things back. Never. She's very open to talking to me about what she now knows is his narcissistic tendencies but I also have a policy of never asking her how things are going. I've known her well enough over a long period of time to understand how it works for her. She's decided to stay with him despite her knowing they aren't well suited. For her things are never bad enough to go. She has a way of being able to turn off from the problem and simply enjoy her life. There is a side to this I admire in her. It's like there is a boundary there for her, where her husband's issues and problems aren't hers and she doesn't let it interfere with her emotions and life. Other times of course something gets to her and she lets it out.

I have the advantage of seeing her in person and I know that most of the time she would not want to talk about issues with her husband and then occasionally she is clearly vulnerable and will herself bring up something that has happened. Don't forget you are writing to your cousin, as opposed to seeing her face to face, and that makes it difficult for you to know whether you are picking a moment where she feels receptive to opening up. The fact she responds with nothing as opposed to a simple acknowledgment, at the moment I'm fine thanks, speaks volumes as to the cycle of abuse she experiences.

 

[Jambalaya]

Thanks, Polished. I knew a couple like that also, for 40 years. He was what I'd call abusive. However, in her eyes she benefited from the marriage in other ways. I think she had bad ADHD, and he paid all the bills, paid the mortgage, did much of the cleaning, dishes, and food shopping, in addition to the house and car maintenance. She did work, and did the cooking and ironing, but it was a struggle for her. However, she couldn't have gotten along without him in a practical sense, and once she turned sixty she got worse - for example, he would have the old windows in the house replaced as a priority in case something happened to him, because despite having enough money, she wouldn't have been able to organize a project like that.

He was the grumpiest, moodiest a$$hole you've ever met, used to shout loudly at her a lot, and in 40 years there was some violence twice that I know of. So it wasn't physically abusive very often, but I couldn't have lived with such a man myself. She did that switch-off exactly, like you said, and she never seemed to care if something she said or did was going to set him off. She certainly didn't walk on eggshells - but I did, in their house! When she got sick, she said he cared for her very well, and he was utterly devastated when she died. So that marriage worked for her, but Jeez....I'd rather enter a nunnery than live like that. I could never understand why she stayed. She said she felt she was better off with him.

I assumed my cousin didn't acknowledge my concern because she was embarrassed, but perhaps you're right in your interpretation. I didn't really want to ask her, but quite a lot of time had passed and I thought she might think that I didn't care what became of her. Five people I know have died in the last six weeks - two under 40 and one under 50! Imagine if something happened to her and I hadn't reached out.

Oh well. At least I have reached out. If she's happy enough to stay, fine. If she wants to leave, she has to do it herself.

You know, the received wisdom is that relationships are so great and all, but really, you have to be SO careful who you let into your life. She would have been a million times better off as a single lady than be with him.

 

[distracts]

I'm not sure what you expected from sending your email. It sounds like you went into the exchange having unrealistic expectations and were inevitably going to be disappointed by it. From her perspective, the last time she opened up about her relationship to you she got heaps of judgment and (to her mind) untenable advice - she's not going to do that again unless she is desperate enough for support that it outweighs the negativity of hearing that from a loved one. You know what I mean?

I think this is why people turn a blind eye to these things - you often have to, for your own mental health, because it is so maddening to be witness to this kind of situation and be able to do nothing about it.

As for wanting to let her know you care and haven't forgotten about her, I think any form of contact does that - no need to speak about the relationship specifically.