Lancaster GTG

[blushingbride]

Date: 6/26/2007 10:20:19 AM
Author: Mara

i am born and bred CA so it would be very hard for me to leave but we are almost sure we will leave in the next few years, it is just a matter of where. cost of living here does not bring you the quality of life that we would want to continue with if we had kids...i don''t want to have to continue to work and unfortunately here you just cannot have a high quality life on one income (even if your mate is as high level as a CEO, we hear this story all the time!)...where a ''needs some remodeling'' 1700 sq ft house from 1950s on .05 acre is 950k. so anyway we are exploring (that is why we visited NC as well) but the PA area seems to have so many positives that we love here (aka metropolitan suburbs, very large city nearby, train for greg, lots of culture and diversity, good neighborhoods and schools for future children) and that lower cost of living. even the wage tax isn''t enough to get us down (though i could see over time you''d be like okay why do i have to pay this?)...! our friends'' kids walk home from school, we were so amazed when we heard that lol.

Hi Mara, like emphemery, I was born and raised in Allentown, PA - Bethlehem''s next door neighbor! I can NOT say enough good things about that area enough (aka the Lehigh Valley)!

I am currently living in NYC so, comparing the two areas is like night and day. My FI even loves it there (he''s from NYC too) - my parents still live there and we enjoy spending the weekends with them. BTW, my FI is a property manager and owns two houses which he rents out as his "side project" so, he definitley knows a thing about real estate.

We eventually want to move out of the city in a few years and the Lehigh Valley is definitely an option. We''ve also considered the main line in the burbs of Philly (a simply gorgeous area), New Jersey or Westchester, NY.The best part about the Philly/Lehigh Valley area is how close they are to the beaches (NJ and MD shores), New York City, Poconos, Atlantic City, Washington, DC, etc.

Like emphemery mentioned, center city Philly is amazing - I worked in center city for 2 1/2 years and absolutely loved it. I even had my bachelorette party there (one night in Philly and one night at the Borgata in AC) and my out-of-town friends had so much fun there.

The restaurants are filled with fabulous cuisine and top chefs who mostly have migrated from NYC. I recommend Old City, Rittenhouse Square and Society Hill areas.

 

[Mara]

thanks for chiming in BlushingBride (sorry chrono for the threadjack!)...Greg actually went to Lehigh for his undergrad work so he has a lot of roots there. when we were there we actually used the campus to do hikes twice, it was really fun! the buildings are so old and beautiful, we have nothing like that here! we walked through a lot of the buildings he used to be in and i even saw his freshman year dorm room hehee.

what is 'main line', ephemery mentioned that too? so far we have only really visited the Drexel Hill area out there which we adore...i have my eye on one house that i just love online, i keep sending it to greg and he likes it too....last nite he was like i really like that house you keep sending me, too bad we aren't more ready mentally to just make a move. but seeing houses like that lets me know that what we want is not going to be too hard to find...we should be able to get what we want for our requirements in that area. and i have been looking up salaries online and it just blows my mind how close we can get to our CA salaries out in philly. and taking the train and all that is a huge perk as greg takes it 4 days a week out here and he just loves not having to drive.

random question but how much snow do you guys really get out there in like the burbs of philly? greg was trying to tell me it wasnt THAT bad (what does that mean?!). and how hot does it get there in the summers and for how long. when we were out there it was a few 90 degree days with low humidity and i was fine, but i don't know how i'd fare with super bad humidity. i don't love a/c but i use it when i have to. i like some humidity and warmth though, as i am almost always cold.

anyway thanks again for everyone who chimed in with some additional info for us. i may start a thread at some point in the near future as we continue to figure out what to do!

 

[Beacon]

This is so interesting. My sister lives in England and is considering moving back to the states and looked at Buck''s County PA. Prices so reasonable. She lives on 3 acres outside London and there is no comparison to the price. This got me looking at the places too. Wow, reasonable and look so pretty and uncrowded. I also like the idea of access to NYC and DC. California is great, but I often feel stuck out here at the end of the country! Still, we do have the soft life here. Every time I vacation up in Napa I remember that people come from all over the earth to do what we can do with a one hour drive.

 

[blushingbride]

Date: 6/28/2007 1:06:59 PM
Author: Mara
what is ''main line'', ephemery mentioned that too? so far we have only really visited the Drexel Hill area out there which we adore...i have my eye on one house that i just love online, i keep sending it to greg and he likes it too....last nite he was like i really like that house you keep sending me, too bad we aren''t more ready mentally to just make a move. but seeing houses like that lets me know that what we want is not going to be too hard to find...we should be able to get what we want for our requirements in that area. and i have been looking up salaries online and it just blows my mind how close we can get to our CA salaries out in philly. and taking the train and all that is a huge perk as greg takes it 4 days a week out here and he just loves not having to drive.

random question but how much snow do you guys really get out there in like the burbs of philly? greg was trying to tell me it wasnt THAT bad (what does that mean?!). and how hot does it get there in the summers and for how long. when we were out there it was a few 90 degree days with low humidity and i was fine, but i don''t know how i''d fare with super bad humidity. i don''t love a/c but i use it when i have to. i like some humidity and warmth though, as i am almost always cold.

Sorry Chrono for threadjacking - I just wrote this long email and somehow it just got deleted!

Anyway, Lehigh is a beautiful campus. My mom went there for her master''s, but I found it to be too close to home, so I ended up going to Penn State.

If you venture outside Lehigh''s campus, the surrounding area isn''t the best, but if you headover to historic Bethlehem, you''ll find some really nice shops, restaurants and bars.

The "main line" is an an affluent area in the western burbs of Philly. I believe the name stems from the Main Line of the PA Railroad which is now the Keystone Corridor for Amtrak and Septa. It''s absolutely gorgeous there! The houses all have such character and are of a decent size too. Some of the towns that make up the main line are Villanova, Bryn Mawr, Ardmore, Radnor, Merion and Gladwyne.

As for the weather, it definitely gets hot in the summer and with that comes the humidity. But, that fluctuates - some weeks are worse than others. You''ll definitely need your AC though. The winters aren''t too bad esp. if you are going to live more towards Philly. As an example, when I commuted from the Lehigh Valley to Philly for work, the LV would get 8 inches of snow and center city would have 1-2 inches so, I would imagine the main line would get around 2-4 in that situation - which is nothing.

Personally, I don''t think I could live somewhere without having all 4 seasons. The change of weather always gives you something to look forward to. In the fall, the air is crisp and clean AND seeing the leaves change is just heavenly if you''re in the mountains. The Christmas season just wouldn''t be the same without the cold air and snow. I don''t know - this year NYC barely got any snow and everyone I know here was really bummed about it!

 

[chrono]

Threadjack away! At least people now know what a great area this is; a little country yet close to the large cities like DC, Philly and NYC.

Before children (BC), driving a few hours on a whim was no problem. We used to drive to Philly every weekend for the great food and shopping. We''d even make a monthly trip to NYC.

After children (AC), even going to Philly is a well orchestrated production. Since having my 2nd child, I''ve only gone to Philly for eating and shopping once. It''s now considered "far".

So for those of you newly weds or without children, have fun now and travel alot because once you expand your family, you are truly homebound until they are around 2 to 3 years old.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 6/28/2007 9:34:22 AM
Author: Madam Bijoux

You could come to NY ...

That''s right! I''m overdue for a trip to NY

I''m waiting for you!

Btw, Bulgari showed me a 5 ct D IF Asscher. It costs $500 grand!

 

[Madam Bijoux]

Hi, Harriet! Bulgari has some beauties. Liz Taylor got her emeralds from there.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 6/29/2007 11:42:27 AM
Author: Madam Bijoux
Hi, Harriet! Bulgari has some beauties. Liz Taylor got her emeralds from there.

They''ve invited me to their opening party. Come to NY and join me.

 

[Joolskie]

Sorry to be MIA for a few days there. This week was so crazy. I did not make it to the Gem show in Timonium. The past few days have been so hectic, I just caught up and chilled out today.

All this talk about Philly and NYC is making want to road trip! I grew up just outside of NYC and try to get up there to visit with friends and family as much as I can. And since moving to York, PA from Baltimore a few years ago, I am closer to Philly and have enjoyed getting to know it better!

ANYWAY... Chrono, what is the best way for us to plan a GTG? My two sons (ages 4 and 6) are currently home with me and I work from home during the day. So, evenings or weekends would probably work best. Unless you want to talk bling at Chuck E Cheese or the play area at Park City. LOL!

Let me know what you have in mind!

 

[Madam Bijoux]

Harriet, that should be quite a party! Whay day and time will it be?

 

[Harriet]

Date: 7/2/2007 7:27:39 AM
Author: Madam Bijoux
Harriet, that should be quite a party! Whay day and time will it be?

I don''t know yet, but I''ll keep you posted.

 

[diamondfan]

Mara, I was born and raised in Beverly Hills and moved to the Main Line suburbs about 10 years ago and love it. Snow is not the worst thing, you normally have some notice, and we love hanging out and keeping cozy on a snow day unless there is no school and no power which very rarely happens. Average snowfall here is about two feet over the entire winter, sometimes more, sometimes less but that is typical. We are in the Delaware valley which protects us from major snow for the most part. We have winters with no snow at all, but just cold weather. If the sky is blue I can deal with cold and bundle up a bit. Some winters are pretty mild overall, and there are great winter clothes to buy!!!

Also, New York is so easy, and Europe and the Caribbean are much easier to get to. In the winter lots of people go to Florida, though unless it is the Breakers in Palm Beach I am not a huge Florida fan. You can also get to so many awesome ski areas from here as well. Philadelphia has a lot of great neighborhoods, and has lots of culture and I think the cost of living is pretty reasonable overall. It can be warm, but again you can have gorgeous non humid days a lot of summer. The seasons are great, and seeing the cherry trees etc bloom or the fall leaves is amazing. And I would take a bit of snow over and earthquake any day, lived through too many of those.

The Main Line are the small towns in the burbs that were lined along the rail line route, very lovely area overall, cute stores, nice homes, very safe. Easy to get into downtown (15-20 minute transit ride with stations all over the area) and King of Prussia is only about 20 minutes the other direction. Center City has great restaurants and there are fabulous museums and theater too, though I get to NY for shows often as well.

 

[Mara]

thanks for chiming in DF...we have been looking in Delaware County (is that the same as Delaware Valley) so we could be near our only friends (to start with!!)...I just love the old 1910's stone style homes, such character, the oldest stuff out here is like 1940's and such strange looking styles hehee. it's good to hear that snow is not too crazy as i think that would be one of the biggest things for me to have to learn to deal with. i like it but not sure about LIVING in it. re the heat, what % of time do you think you have your A/C on in the ~june-september months? i am not a big fan of A/C or 'unnatural air' but if it is really hot we will use it though honestly my comfort threshold for heat goes up to 79 in the house. i am always cold so i love heat. we only use ours here in CA like maybe 10% of the time between ~may-october.

i also am thinking that i may be able to keep the contract gig i am currently at if we do move, that would be nice, even for another ~6months if we moved because that would just be one less thing to have to do for us...and give us some time to settle in and see how things shake out. so we'll see. honestly the more i think about this, the more i think it might be something for us...we loved visiting NC but it's too far from greg's family and if we do move to the EC i'd like to be 'close' (relatively) to some family for us...as we'd be moving from having a close relationship with my family here. some support network would be hugely beneficial.

thanks again for everyone who chimed in. i may start a new thread at some point about that area of PA and try to get more information on best areas to live (aka was looking at main line suburbs and the houses seem a little more pricey (aka 50-100k more) but not that much NICER necessarily, than say, drexel hill area which is not right along main line but underneath it yet still seems close enough...so why such price differences/is it worth it, etc)...and schools and all that. our friends who live in DH have kids who walk to school and they love their area and the schools they are in which says a lot to me...considering CA schools are definitely not the best.

 

[Beacon]

DF or Mara - can you guys list some of the city names on Main Line so I can look at them on Realtor.com. I am clueless about what towns these are exactly. Thanks so much!!

 

[Mara]

beacon i did some Googling on it last week...i found some great information with wikipedia, which i can''t find right this second again...but here is a link that does have more information. try Googling ''cities on Philadelphia main line'' or similar. lots of realtors also have areas of their sites devoted to the cities. you can see a map too and typically follow the ''main line'' once you know where it is and see what is around it as well. Drexel Hill is one we are considering, where our friends live, and it''s not on main line but it''s under a main line city.

http://philanet.com/benigno/mainline.html

 

[diamondfan]

Mara, Delaware Valley is the entire region and I live in Montgomery County, in Lower Merion Township. Delaware county is a county within the area. There is a river called the Schuykill, and Drexel Hill, and Chestnut Hill are on the other side of the river but downtown is very accessible. The stone colonial home is very much typical to the area and there are some amazing homes with pretty lots and nice greenery to be had. Of course like anywhere there is crap architecture too, but overall the stuff here can be very lovely and charming.

 

[diamondfan]

Beacon, here you go...

Wynnewood 19096
Haverford 19041 (home to Haverford College)
Gladwyne 19035
Bryn Mawr 19010 (home to Bryn Mawr College)
Villanova 19085 (home to Villanova University)

All of the above towns have train stations and the trains run into Center City. These are considered by realtors as the top 5 zip codes in the area. (or so I have been told).

There are also nice spots like Merion, Bala Cynwyd, Penn Valley and Rosemont. These towns are also nice, and they also have train stations that run into the city. A lot of the names are either Welsh or Indian...some of them seem funny when you hear them. The towns I listed are all on Lower Merion, Montgomery County. There is also a town called Radnor, and there is Wayne, Berwyn and St. David''s, but they are much further from Center City. They are in different counties and the schools, while good, are not considered as great as the ones in Lower Merion.

 

[coda72]

Date: 7/2/2007 4:47:33 PM
Author: diamondfan
Mara, Delaware Valley is the entire region and I live in Montgomery County, in Lower Merion Township. Delaware county is a county within the area. There is a river called the Schuykill, and Drexel Hill, and Chestnut Hill are on the other side of the river but downtown is very accessible. The stone colonial home is very much typical to the area and there are some amazing homes with pretty lots and nice greenery to be had. Of course like anywhere there is crap architecture too, but overall the stuff here can be very lovely and charming.

I happened to stumble across this thread, and I thought I''d chime in since I''m somewhat local. Just wanted to clarify that Drexel Hill isn''t near Chestnut Hill at all. Drexel Hill is on the same side of the Schuylkill River as the Main Line. Chestnut Hill is on the opposite side of the river near Lafayette Hill. Drexel Hill is Delaware County,and Lafayette Hill is Montgomery County. I live near Chestnut Hill, so I am very familiar with the area. My husband and I looked into Drexel Hill because we liked the area, but ultimately decided to go with the other area we also liked.

 

[diamondfan]

Thanks Coda, I do get those confused. Not being native and having fewer reasons to go over to Germantown and Chestut Hill I find my sense of where things are is not as good as it should be. I have gone over Lincoln Drive to Germantown and to Chestnut Hill, is Lafayette Hill that way too? I know the Main Line backwards and forwards but not some of the surrounding areas.

 

[Beacon]

Date: 7/2/2007 10:52:50 PM
Author: diamondfan
Beacon, here you go...

Wynnewood 19096
Haverford 19041 (home to Haverford College)
Gladwyne 19035
Bryn Mawr 19010 (home to Bryn Mawr College)
Villanova 19085 (home to Villanova University)

All of the above towns have train stations and the trains run into Center City. These are considered by realtors as the top 5 zip codes in the area. (or so I have been told).

There are also nice spots like Merion, Bala Cynwyd, Penn Valley and Rosemont. These towns are also nice, and they also have train stations that run into the city. A lot of the names are either Welsh or Indian...some of them seem funny when you hear them. The towns I listed are all on Lower Merion, Montgomery County. There is also a town called Radnor, and there is Wayne, Berwyn and St. David''s, but they are much further from Center City. They are in different counties and the schools, while good, are not considered as great as the ones in Lower Merion.

Thank you DF!!

 

[enbcfsobe]

Laffayette Hill is just up Germantown Ave from Chestnut Hill (farther up the same hill). Just on the other side of Chestnut Hill are some nice areas of Montgomery County that are also very accessible to the city -- Jenkintown, Springfield (Montgomery County -- there''s also one in Delaware County, which is confusing), Cheltenham, Abington, Lower Moreland... Also lots of old houses, and generally less expensive (and less segregated) than the Main Line. Chestnut Hill and Mount Airy are within the city limits, but are very suburban-like areas -- sizeable old homes with yards and little town centers scattered throughout.

 

[Mara]

I looked a little at Rosemont and Paoli and those areas out there but they are a bit too far from Philly I think....aka if we worked in Philly or surrounding area I imagine we''d like to be closer than those towns are....one of the reasons we like Drexel Hill is because it''s close but not too close. Still researching though!! I found the cutest house in Havertown (right up on the map from DH) that is right up our alley hehee. On something like 1/4c acre too, gosh imagine that. I almost can''t.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 7/5/2007 12:37:35 PM
Author: Mara
On something like 1/4c acre too, gosh imagine that. I almost can''t.

AIICKKK. Keep right on "imagining" that ... don''t do it!!

Our little house is on 1/4 acre and it is KILLING ME. I have a black thumb and HATE gardening and I swear the lawn is starting to rise up and swallow the house whole.

I positively *yearn* for a smaller yard or even small patio area that could actually look pretty without sucking up all our time and/or $$$$.

Perhaps its just a learning curve ... but, five years in -- I ain''t learned squat!

LAWN HIJACK COMPLETE

LOVE the east coast!! LOVE access to NYC!!! LOVE the season!!! -- come play!

 

[chrono]

Oh, come on! I have close to 1/2 acres and sometimes I think it's too small.

I don't think I'll ever survive in CA or NYC because I need space. I don't want to peer out my window and see my neighbour.

Land is very cheap here compared to those places.

 

[ladyciel]

Date: 6/25/2007 10:43:32 AM
Author: Joolskie
I am always looking for an excuse to head over to Lancaster. You guys have much more in the way of shopping and restaurants then we do here in York.

Ahhh, come on Joolskie!! The Galleria or West Manchester malls don''t do it for ya??

I grew up in York (1st-10th grades) and I remember our annual trips to Reading and Lancaster for shopping at the outlets. I''d be all over a PA G2G, but I''m out in MI now.

 

[Odilia]

For a good real estate search engine in the area, try http://www.zuberrealty.com/propertysearch/property_search.htm

Although this realtor isn''t located in Delaware County, this search engine is great, and you can search for anything in Delaware Co. or the other counties in SE Pa. You plug in your criteria and it will send you daily e-mails of the listings. If you checked it two days ago, for example, it will show you all the new ones since you last looked, or all of them total if you wish. It''s very handy. It''s the best RE search engine I''ve found. I just wish they would let you plug in property tax as a criterion!

BTW, the annoying space on the left side of the screen will not be there if you have the emails sent to you.

 

[Mara]

Date: 7/5/2007 1:02:58 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 7/5/2007 12:37:35 PM
Author: Mara
On something like 1/4c acre too, gosh imagine that. I almost can't.

AIICKKK. Keep right on 'imagining' that ... don't do it!!

Our little house is on 1/4 acre and it is KILLING ME. I have a black thumb and HATE gardening and I swear the lawn is starting to rise up and swallow the house whole.

I positively *yearn* for a smaller yard or even small patio area that could actually look pretty without sucking up all our time and/or $$$$.

Perhaps its just a learning curve ... but, five years in -- I ain't learned squat!

LAWN HIJACK COMPLETE

LOVE the east coast!! LOVE access to NYC!!! LOVE the season!!! -- come play!

LOL deco you obviously haven't seen the threads with pictures of my patio garden. i have a huge green thumb or something like that. i daydream about lots of space for massive amounts of roses and perennials. i would love a few ACRES of land where i could create garden rooms and wander around like the crazy cat lady (but with westies) all day long talking to myself. gotta start somewhere right? so 1/4 sounds good to me.

really liked how in the older established NC neighborhoods they had about 1/4 as well as it was like 'just enough' to give a sense of space IMO.

interestingly enough in some towns like paoli i have found 2.7 acre plots of land with like a mini lake on it for something like 400k. mega drool at the thought of that, except that the commute to Philly would not be as nice as DH kind of thing...but the idea that we could do something like that in the future after putting in more urban time is so appealing.

 

[Joolskie]

Date: 7/5/2007 1:19:32 PM
Author: ladyciel

Date: 6/25/2007 10:43:32 AM

Author: Joolskie

I am always looking for an excuse to head over to Lancaster. You guys have much more in the way of shopping and restaurants then we do here in York.

Ahhh, come on Joolskie!! The Galleria or West Manchester malls don''t do it for ya??

I grew up in York (1st-10th grades) and I remember our annual trips to Reading and Lancaster for shopping at the outlets. I''d be all over a PA G2G, but I''m out in MI now.

LOL ladyciel!!!! We are part of the Maryland Migration up to York. I left behind tons of great shopping and restaurants (and astronomically priced housing/daycare) in return for more affordable living. I actually love it here. It is much less crowded than the Baltimore/DC area and my kids have plenty of room to roam. And hello... have you not heard the big news?!?!? We just got a FUDRUCKERS! Which is the biggest news since they opened the CHILI''S last year. And sometime next year, we are getting our very first BEST BUY. LOL!!!!

And I should point out that we moved from a small townhouse in Maryland with a postage stamp lawn to a single family house on a 1/2 acre. We love our lawn! My DH is a "yard guy" and nurtures that thing like it is his mistress.

 

[ephemery1]

Date: 7/5/2007 12:37:35 PM
Author: Mara
I looked a little at Rosemont and Paoli and those areas out there but they are a bit too far from Philly I think....aka if we worked in Philly or surrounding area I imagine we'd like to be closer than those towns are....one of the reasons we like Drexel Hill is because it's close but not too close. Still researching though!! I found the cutest house in Havertown (right up on the map from DH) that is right up our alley hehee. On something like 1/4c acre too, gosh imagine that. I almost can't.

Mara, you'd be surprised at how close those towns actually are! You're used to sprawling CA I think...

But I worked in Rosemont last year and it was only a 20 minute train ride... or technically about 15 miles to drive, but rush-hour traffic on Rt 76 is NOT fun. I worked in Radnor before that (another cute Mainline town) and drove out each morning... that 15 miles can end up taking close to an hour at the wrong time of day.

I've never been to Drexel Hill, but from your description it sounds pretty good! It is about 10 miles west of the city (the Mainline goes straight up to the NW), so a disadvantage might be that you're on the outskirts of West Philly, so safety could be a concern... which could explain the lower property values. To give you a sense of the economics of the area, Drexel Hill's school district (Upper Darby) has a 25% poverty rate, while Radnor SD has a 2% poverty rate... so that's one major difference in the two 'burbs. I would imagine you'd get more diversity in DH though, which is a good thing.

Move to Philly!! Come on, you know you want to.... I'll take you out to dinner........

ETA -- What's deceiving about the Philly suburbs, is that some areas have better access to major roads like I-76, or a train route (R5 for the Mainline). For example, I just checked Google maps -- Paoli is 25 miles to Philly, 35 mins driving time. Drexel Hill is 10 miles to Philly, but 26 mins driving time. So something else to consider...

 

[diamondfan]

Mara, Rosemont is really in my view in the Main Line. It is sort of between Bryn Mawr and Villanova. The trains, from the city along the Main Line, run (this is not right from 30th Street, the main station in Center City but a couple stops after as you leave the city and head out to the burbs)...you would have Merion, Narberth, Ardmore, Bryn Mawr, Haverford, Rosemont, Villanova. So Rosemont is certainly in the area. Paoli is farther, I had to go to Paoli Hospital a few years ago and it was a long way, maybe 45 minutes from Wynnewood with minimal traffic. My dh works in Center City, he tends to drive, and in normal traffic is door to door in about 20 minutes. He works in the Cirra Center, a brand new building adjactent to the 30th Street Amtrak station. This is a bit closer to the suburbs and you do not have to navigate into the city itself. But after 30th Street there are a couple other stops in the city, Suburban and Market East, one of which comes out right near City Hall. (City Hall is sort of the middle of the downtown area). Havertown is fine, not sure of train service though there might be trolleys to the stations, but economically Havertown is pretty mixed and also the schools may not be as good.